"Well Force Speed hadn't been invented by George Lucas yet..."

I haz found yet another flaw.

This could not be true, as in the first few scenes you see force run. They do it when the destroyer droids get to the bast door in like the second scene.

Also this is what would happen if Obi-Wan used force speed during Qui Gon and Darth Maul's duel.

He really would have just crashed straight into the force field.

He really would have just crashed straight into the force field.

lol yeah. Maybe the reason why he didnt attack the generators is because he thought that the shields would open up quicker than he could destroy the generators.

lol yeah. Maybe the reason why he didnt attack the generators is because he thought that the shields would open up quicker than he could destroy the generators.

Or it would have caused a chain reaction blowing himself, his master, and Maul apart being that there would be no energy to disperse and it would just build up more and more and go boom!

GL stated that the Force is only Light Side and the Dark Side is a corrupted version. Completely separate from the Force.

Could you provide some proof to your claim? I can probably list many SW quotes that say "dark side" or "dark side of the Force.", etc, etc, etc, demonstrating that there is no seperate cliche dark entity only usable if you join Club Dark Side.

 

Darth Vader

 

Why didn't Vader just grab Luke's lightsaber and stab Palpatine? That would have been much simpler and he'd be able to spend time with his kids and atone for his mistakes.

 

But it wouldn't be as dramatic. Also -SW (the whole 6 films) are a story of Anakin Skywalker. His raise and fall and final retribution. He had to die.

 

 

Qui-Gon Jinn

Why would they send just two Jedi to protect a very important queen of a very important planet?

 

Three things:

- in Jedi Council thinking Jedi Master + padawan is enough for a simple diplomatic/escort mission. Jedi are uber compared to traditional attacks so them two are even too much for that task.

- no one even thought that extinct Sith could send 50% of their forces (rule of two, remember?) just to slay mere queen of mere planet.

- other Jedi were occupied with their own tasks

 

 

Imagine the fight against Darth Maul...but with 4 Jedi? Imagine what difference that would have made.

 

Either Maul had to be super mega uber Sith swordsman to keep on par with four Jedi or he would easily kill the extra two which would mean they were *******, not Jedi.

 

Force Speed to catch up with Qui-Gon and defeat Darth Maul?

"Well Force Speed hadn't been invented by George Lucas yet..."

 

Wrong - while escaping from Trade federation ship both Qui-Gon and OB1 used force speed (while evading droidekas, short shot but it's clearly visible how they speed up)

 

In the five minutes that Darth Maul was seething and Qui-Gon was using introspection, Obi-Wan could have been destroying the shield generators to catch up with his master.

 

Hm, have you ever tried to forcibly dismantle any high power machinery? Modern cars blow like a ton of TNT when just shot up few times (heck, they blow even after a road accident) while power generators tend to explode with even more power when punched. So imagine massive force field generator treated with Lightsaber. OB1 touches that and *poof*. Half of Theed palace is gone.

 

But you're right about force speed. He was able to use it as he used it few hours earlier. But the only explanation is that he used his Force reservoirs while fighting and force jumping so he couldn't use force speed in that short time interval. In the end he was just a padawan, not so strong with the force at that time.

 

Thoughts? Other examples?

My thoughts are in bold italics. Cheers.

Why does it have to be excuses? Why can't people have their own views on what/how something did/didn't happen? You ever think that, directors leave some stuff out for the audience to come to their own conclusions as to what happens? Why do directors/story writers need to do all the work or have all the fun in telling a story? I look at it like this, if you can explain what happens in some parts of a movie then its not a plothole because you are able to figure out what was missing and how the story was told its a plothole if you can't figure something out through reasoning.

because they are excuses we aren't talking about say the reasons behind a characters decsion we are talking about things like

In A New Hope during the breakfest scene with Luke Owen and Beru in one shot Lukes blue milk is empty in the next its full. Obviously its because its a consisty error during film making. But the fans would come up with an excuse

like oh well it's a self filling cup.

They make excuses for every little inconsistency in the film.

Nobody is excusing George's bad writing, bro. You may want to look at it again before you jump to conclusions. I find the fact that other authors have to come to George's rescue on plotholes funny, in fact. Brian Daley did an excellent job filling in the parsec plothole from ANH.

did you read the post I quoted? The guy said "we need to fill plotholes with our own ideas"

and really no one is excusing George's bad writting? really??

because they are excuses we aren't talking about say the reasons behind a characters decsion we are talking about things like

 

In A New Hope during the breakfest scene with Luke Owen and Beru in one shot Lukes blue milk is empty in the next its full. Obviously its because its a consisty error during film making. But the fans would come up with an excuse

like oh well it's a self filling cup.

 

They make excuses for every little inconsistency in the film.

At what time?

did you read the post I quoted? The guy said "we need to fill plotholes with our own ideas"

Never said you had to, you wanna say they are plotholes thats fine.

At what time?

You see the empty cup at 5:05 then at 5:38 you see Luke filling it up and when he leaves theres still some there.

 

 

 

Never said you had to, you wanna say they are plotholes thats fine.

relax it's an example. I remember there was something off about that scene i thought it was that I guess not.

We could also use the Kessel Run example. When Lucas wrote the script he had no idea that a parsec measured distance. However everyone else came up with a solution to his mess.

Star Wars fans are way to apologetic.

Of course with the prequels we have Padme's death, R2D2 and his rockets that we never see again, R2D2 knows everything since his memory isn't wiped but won't tell anyone, and many many more.

did you read the post I quoted? The guy said "we need to fill plotholes with our own ideas"

 

 

and really no one is excusing George's bad writting? really??

If you are talking about me. I did say sometimes we need to fill plotholes with our own ideas. For instance, how did Padme die? There is no harm in thinking of ways to fill that plothole. And I never said that my ideas were law. Any plothole that I or any fan fill is just fan-fiction. What is wrong with me thinking that Padme actually died from something like oxygen deprivation that caused brain trauma. That is a logical explanation. Anakin was depriving oxygen from her brain to the point of her passing, she could have easily gotten some brain trauma from that. And no, I'm not passing this idea off as law. It's just fan-fiction. So long as I don't tell people that's exactly what happened, then there is no harm in thinking that.

did you read the post I quoted? The guy said "we need to fill plotholes with our own ideas"

 

 

and really no one is excusing George's bad writting? really??

To me, that wasn't an excuse. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, if you feel that way. Fly safe. o7

Seriously, there IS NO EXCUSE for George's bad writing. While he has a great concept of the Big Picture, and can write a great story on an epic scale, his interpersonal relationships between characters has always sucked. Dialogue is like something you would see in a really bad Japanese/English translation from some old low budget anime series or Japanese monster movie. "All your base are belong to us" comes to mind. lol

And of course, there are all the plotholes he leaves laying in the middle of the road.

And for some who are confusing movie bloopers with plotholes.... /facepalm.

Movie bloopers are in nearly every movie ever made. Is Star Wars an exception? No. Bloopers are fun. lol

Especially the one in "War and Peace" during Napoleon's retreat from Russia. The French Army is crossing a bridge, and the camera shot catches two guys in a boat wearing yellow rain slickers and filming with another camera.

To me, that wasn't an excuse. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, if you feel that way. Fly safe. o7

 

Seriously, there IS NO EXCUSE for George's bad writing. While he has a great concept of the Big Picture, and can write a great story on an epic scale, his interpersonal relationships between characters has always sucked. Dialogue is like something you would see in a really bad Japanese/English translation from some old low budget anime series or Japanese monster movie. "All your base are belong to us" comes to mind. lol

 

And of course, there are all the plotholes he leaves laying in the middle of the road.

Is it just me or does every Japanese TV show that is translated to English have REALLY fast dialogue. In all of the translated versions of Japanese movies I have seen, every one talks fast. Maybe GL should have done that for the PT. That actually might have been worse lol.

And for some who are confusing movie bloopers with plotholes.... /facepalm.

 

Movie bloopers are in nearly every movie ever made. Is Star Wars an exception? No. Bloopers are fun. lol

 

Especially the one in "War and Peace" during Napoleon's retreat from Russia. The French Army is crossing a bridge, and the camera shot catches two guys in a boat wearing yellow rain slickers and filming with another camera.

but i'm saying it happens with both plot holes and bloopers and well just inconsistances with say special effects.

Star Wars might have a few more then most

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1226?viewall=yes

Here is a short list of some of the plot holes

http://starwars.geniusprophecy.com/plot-hole-database.html

And it's perfectly ok to just ignore them and enjoy the movies. But it's when you start coming up with excuses for them it becomes a problem.

Look at Anakins fall to the darkside. Now yes it's done better in TCW but in ROTS he goes from wanting to save padme to seconds latter Papantine convincing him he has to go and KILL CHILDREN!!!

but i'm saying it happens with both plot holes and bloopers and well just inconsistances with say special effects.

 

Star Wars might have a few more then most

 

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1226?viewall=yes

 

Here is a short list of some of the plot holes

 

http://starwars.geniusprophecy.com/plot-hole-database.html

 

And it's perfectly ok to just ignore them and enjoy the movies. But it's when you start coming up with excuses for them it becomes a problem.

I don't see the problem in filling plotholes. It's when you broadcast your ideas as truth that it becomes a problem.

but i'm saying it happens with both plot holes and bloopers and well just inconsistances with say special effects.

 

Star Wars might have a few more then most

 

http://www.moviemistakes.com/film1226?viewall=yes

 

Here is a short list of some of the plot holes

 

http://starwars.geniusprophecy.com/plot-hole-database.html

 

And it's perfectly ok to just ignore them and enjoy the movies. But it's when you start coming up with excuses for them it becomes a problem.

 

 

Look at Anakins fall to the darkside. Now yes it's done better in TCW but in ROTS he goes from wanting to save padme to seconds latter Papantine convincing him he has to go and KILL CHILDREN!!!

Well for the lightsabers thing, it seems to me the jedi always hold down the button so why would they be able to turn off the saber if the button is held down?

With the sane human thing, they weren't Bail wasn't, Padme wasn't, a good number of senators who were conspiring against Palpatine weren't convinced.

Their only hope....Luke was their only hope at the time being that Leia hadn't been made aware of her force sensitivity nor trained in any shape or form.

Dooku believed up until the very end, that he was going to be saved. Even if Palpatine said to kill him, that could have been just another lure to pull Anakin closer to the darkside but even then Dooku didn't have time to say anything.

Learning the secret to save life, it doesn't need to be shown because it was a lie to begin with.

As for Palpatine's being able to see into the future, it is always in motion he can't be correct 100% of the time no not even him he can however be correct most of the time.

Not sure how the lightsaber forms are a plothole...

How does R2D2 know that Anakin fell to the darkside? He was only with him when he went to mustafar, and even then he stayed with his ship other then that theres no instances of R2 with Anakin being darkside.

R2's rocket launcher.....think he is talking about the jets, and how does he know that they were removed? Just because they weren't used in EP 4-6 doesn't mean he doesn't have them, he just never needed to use them.

------

Really all you need to do is just think about them.

Well for the lightsabers thing, it seems to me the jedi always hold down the button so why would they be able to turn off the saber if the button is held down?

 

With the sane human thing, they weren't Bail wasn't, Padme wasn't, a good number of senators who were conspiring against Palpatine weren't convinced.

 

Their only hope....Luke was their only hope at the time being that Leia hadn't been made aware of her force sensitivity nor trained in any shape or form.

 

Dooku believed up until the very end, that he was going to be saved. Even if Palpatine said to kill him, that could have been just another lure to pull Anakin closer to the darkside but even then Dooku didn't have time to say anything.

 

Learning the secret to save life, it doesn't need to be shown because it was a lie to begin with.

 

As for Palpatine's being able to see into the future, it is always in motion he can't be correct 100% of the time no not even him he can however be correct most of the time.

 

Not sure how the lightsaber forms are a plothole...

 

How does R2D2 know that Anakin fell to the darkside? He was only with him when he went to mustafar, and even then he stayed with his ship other then that theres no instances of R2 with Anakin being darkside.

 

R2's rocket launcher.....think he is talking about the jets, and how does he know that they were removed? Just because they weren't used in EP 4-6 doesn't mean he doesn't have them, he just never needed to use them.

------

 

Really all you need to do is just think about them.

I think most of the plot holes are conceived by annoyed fans. True SW fans can fill them with logic and deductive reasoning.

Lets get back on topic

I forget. What's the topic again?

Well for the lightsabers thing, it seems to me the jedi always hold down the button so why would they be able to turn off the saber if the button is held down?

 

With the sane human thing, they weren't Bail wasn't, Padme wasn't, a good number of senators who were conspiring against Palpatine weren't convinced.

 

Their only hope....Luke was their only hope at the time being that Leia hadn't been made aware of her force sensitivity nor trained in any shape or form.

 

Dooku believed up until the very end, that he was going to be saved. Even if Palpatine said to kill him, that could have been just another lure to pull Anakin closer to the darkside but even then Dooku didn't have time to say anything.

 

Learning the secret to save life, it doesn't need to be shown because it was a lie to begin with.

 

As for Palpatine's being able to see into the future, it is always in motion he can't be correct 100% of the time no not even him he can however be correct most of the time.

 

Not sure how the lightsaber forms are a plothole...

 

How does R2D2 know that Anakin fell to the darkside? He was only with him when he went to mustafar, and even then he stayed with his ship other then that theres no instances of R2 with Anakin being darkside.

 

R2's rocket launcher.....think he is talking about the jets, and how does he know that they were removed? Just because they weren't used in EP 4-6 doesn't mean he doesn't have them, he just never needed to use them.

------

 

Really all you need to do is just think about them.

couple things

If a if you look at where they hold the light sabers they dont' hold the button. They could also just use the force to rip it out of their hands or do any number of things to distrupt the lightsaber.

The fact that no one not even Padme said "Hey why are we trusting this guy who wants to keep all the power to himself and create a galactic empire where he is in charge and kill all the jedi? Shouldn't we find out what really happen? Oh we are just going to trust what he says even though the Jedi have probablly saved everyone more times then we can count and have never once been shown to act like he is describing"

If it was really a democracy they would have had a trial or an investigatory comity to see if what Papapentine said was true.

Obi Wan says Luke is the last hope. But Yoda says there is another which is obviously Leia. HOWEVER they both know that Darth Vader has her and Luke is trying to rescue her. So how is she the other hope if she is going to die UNLESS Luke goes to save her.

R2D2's rockets would have been handy on Degobah to get off the ship with out having to go in the swamp water.

Really R2D2 is a huge jerk. He also pushes C3PO in AotC so he falls on the conveyor belt and doesn't even bother to save him. He does it with out caring what is going to happen to his friend.

couple things

 

If a if you look at where they hold the light sabers they dont' hold the button. They could also just use the force to rip it out of their hands or do any number of things to distrupt the lightsaber.

 

The fact that no one not even Padme said "Hey why are we trusting this guy who wants to keep all the power to himself and create a galactic empire where he is in charge and kill all the jedi? Shouldn't we find out what really happen? Oh we are just going to trust what he says even though the Jedi have probablly saved everyone more times then we can count and have never once been shown to act like he is describing"

 

If it was really a democracy they would have had a trial or an investigatory comity to see if what Papapentine said was true.

 

Obi Wan says Luke is the last hope. But Yoda says there is another which is obviously Leia. HOWEVER they both know that Darth Vader has her and Luke is trying to rescue her. So how is she the other hope if she is going to die UNLESS Luke goes to save her.

 

R2D2's rockets would have been handy on Degobah to get off the ship with out having to go in the swamp water.

 

Really R2D2 is a huge jerk. He also pushes C3PO in AotC so he falls on the conveyor belt and doesn't even bother to save him. He does it with out caring what is going to happen to his friend.

1. They could, but they never do because they always jump straight into fighting.

2. Padme didn't trust Palpatine anyway, and it wasn't really a democracy when he took over and really it seemed that most of the politicians were stupid or really didn't care one way or the other, just as long as the war ended and that everything severed their best interests.

3. Yes they do know, but it was Lando that rescused Chewie and Leia not Luke. Luke didn't even need to go to Bespin, remember how

"But Han and Leia will die if I don't."

"You don't know that, even Yoda cannot see their fate."

4. I always looked at it like this, R2 wasn't in any danger in the swamp. So he would get a little dirty, thats nothing really compared to the factory where he would have been dismantled or melted down or what have you.

1. They could, but they never do because they always jump straight into fighting.

 

2. Padme didn't trust Palpatine anyway, and it wasn't really a democracy when he took over and really it seemed that most of the politicians were stupid or really didn't care one way or the other, just as long as the war ended and that everything severed their best interests.

 

3. Yes they do know, but it was Lando that rescused Chewie and Leia not Luke. Luke didn't even need to go to Bespin, remember how

 

"But Han and Leia will die if I don't."

 

"You don't know that, even Yoda cannot see their fate."

 

4. I always looked at it like this, R2 wasn't in any danger in the swamp. So he would get a little dirty, thats nothing really compared to the factory where he would have been dismantled or melted down or what have you.

1. yeah and if you are in a fight for your life you would use the force. I mean Obi Wan should have been able to use the force to hold Grevious still and slice his head off.

2. It was still a democracy when he had emergancy powers remember they still had commites and everything else. Speaking off major plot holes why is it that JarJar was allowed to submit the legislation to give Palpenine emergancy power in the first place????

3. No Lando did not save them it was R2D2 who saved them and he came with Luke. If Luke and R2 never came then as soon as the MF took off it would have been stoped by a SD because it didn't have working Hyper drive.

4. I kind of imagine that falling into a swamp that you have no idea how deep it is or even if he could get out would be a major problem. Not to mention he is still a droid that runs on electricty and getting water on any kind of electric device is never a good thing.

1. yeah and if you are in a fight for your life you would use the force. I mean Obi Wan should have been able to use the force to hold Grevious still and slice his head off.

 

2. It was still a democracy when he had emergancy powers remember they still had commites and everything else. Speaking off major plot holes why is it that JarJar was allowed to submit the legislation to give Palpenine emergancy power in the first place????

 

3. No Lando did not save them it was R2D2 who saved them and he came with Luke. If Luke and R2 never came then as soon as the MF took off it would have been stoped by a SD because it didn't have working Hyper drive.

 

4. I kind of imagine that falling into a swamp that you have no idea how deep it is or even if he could get out would be a major problem. Not to mention he is still a droid that runs on electricty and getting water on any kind of electric device is never a good thing.

1. He could, but how do we know that Grevious wouldn't have pulled a cheap move like he always did? He probably would have still been able to move.

2. Whats wrong with Jarjar? He grew up, as to why he was elected to suggest giving Palpatine emergency powers does that really matter? He would have gotten them anyway, even if it was a different senator.

3. He did save them, up until they got into the falcon and yes R2 did also save them. But Luke did not, he was hanging by a weather vain in pain.

4. He seemed to have been well covered up so as no water could actually get into his systems.

Anyway, gonna stop here because this thread is already gone off track for so long.