Hello,

 

As stated in the title, I am a 6 year WoW veteran that has finally grown tired of the way Blizzard has taken the game. I bought SWTOR back when it first released, but never played it. I now have recently downloaded the game and, after playing for a short while, have decided to ask for some advice.

 

I am looking for some suggestions as to what class to play, I have a few guidelines that I feel will narrow the field a bit...but I dont know enough about how each class plays to really make an educated decision myself. I know the best advice would be to play each and decide that way, but I dont feel like spending that much time and energy. I would rather but my time into a single character. So here it goes...

 

I am looking for a ranged DPS class that has decent mobility, good burst potential, and does well in both PvP/PvE. I have tried out the Imperial Agent class, but I am not a big fan of the cover mechanic. I usually play solo, and would like a class that does well without group support. Basically im looking for the SWTOR version of a hunter, lol.

 

All constructive advice is wanted here, im a total noob in the SWTOR universe and desperately want to learn. Thank you all in advance for your help!

There's no real substitute for the Hunter from WoW. No one has pets. However, everyone has companions which function in the same manner.

 

If you take the agent a bit further into Operative you might like it. They are more close quarters and utilize stealth and heals. A well equipped operative can solo most of the game as their first companion is a tank.

 

Trooper/BH might suit you as well as they use ranged attacks. The Assassin (Inquisitor) or Sage (Consular) are also ranged but more about force powers.

 

Things to keep in mind as a new player. Custom (or moddable) gear is something you will not be used to from WoW. Every armor and weapon slot (except earpiece, implants and relics) can be filled with a moddable item. These are basically shells which can have their mods updated (from vendors or GTN or crafting) to increase their stats as you level. Definitely the way to go. You can also use this type of equipment on companions.

 

The beauty of them is you can find a look you like and stick with it. Mods can be removed from other custom items and reused in whatever one you are wearing. Whichever class you select, please be aware of their primary stat (Aim, Cunning, Willpower, Strength) and focus on that first.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Ezrat

Any ranged class that has mobility will be a dot spec. Any ranged class with burst will have cast times so will be less mobile. Just listing imp classes, rep classes are mirrors.

 

High mobility class/spec: Sorcerer/madness, Mercenary/pyrotech, Sniper/Lethality or engineering

High burst class/spec: Sorcerer/lightning, Mercenary/arsenal, Sniper/marksman

As Ezrat mentioned, every class in SWTOR is essentially a pet class thanks to companions, at least while soloing. You will be without your companion in most flashpoints (4-man dungeons), operations (8/16-man raids), and all warzones (battlegrounds). The benefit of the companions over pets though is that depending on the class and companion used (each has 5 companions provided at specific points), you have a melee dps, ranged dps, healer, or tank to complement your class and playstyle.

 

For ranged classes, you are looking at Bounty Hunter Mercenaries / Trooper Commandos, which would sort of be like elemental / resto shaman. Picking up the healing trees you would eventually get an "earth shield", and hammer shot is a jump-less chain heal. Snipers / Gunslingers are a strictly dps ranged class, though I agree with you about the cover mechanic. They are likely the closest you can come to hunters. The Operatives / Scoundrels are really enjoyable, but they are also essentially rogues. Finally there is the Sorcerer / Sage, probably most similiar to the discpline priest, able to cast spells at range and shield people as a healer. Not sure if you have to spec into the healer tree for the shields though.

Never played WoW so I don't know what classes would compare with a Hunter. As far as ranged classes with mobility go, the Republic Commando Trooper or it's opposite on Imp side the Mercenary Bounty Hunter might suit you well. Both are ranged mirror classes that offer great burst or sustained DPS depending on which Tree you take and also offer on the go heals.

 

Commandos get an Assault Cannon which is like walking around with a chain gun. It has awesome DPS but I'm more biased towards the Merc with their dual gun wielding bad assery!

 

So yeah the Mercenary gets two guns but their mobility is about the same which again depends on the Tree you spec into. Speaking of the trees, both have one full healing tree they can specialize in or 2 DPS trees.

Right there with you on the merc's dual pistols. I had no intention of leveling a BH, let alone another "commando", but I quickly realized it was the only way I could ever mimic the smuggler seen in the opening cinimatic. Its a shame none of those who lvld a gunslinger will get to experience that without cover getting in the way.

There's no real substitute for the Hunter from WoW. No one has pets. However, everyone has companions which function in the same manner.

 

If you take the agent a bit further into Operative you might like it. They are more close quarters and utilize stealth and heals. A well equipped operative can solo most of the game as their first companion is a tank.

 

Trooper/BH might suit you as well as they use ranged attacks. The Assassin (Inquisitor) or Sage (Consular) are also ranged but more about force powers.

 

I am very sorry to say so, but if someone asks for a Ranged class it's quite a poor advise to recommend: Operative, Assassin and Trooper/Bounty Hunter in general. Operative (unless healer specced) requires to be in 4m range for an attack that's more or less suppose to be used every 6 seconds. This is in no way a ranged dps class. The Assassins has (for as far as I'm aware) one 30m range ability (Death Field in the Madness tree) and the rest are 10m to 4m, unless Force Potency or Recklessness is used, requiring you to be in melee range almost all the time. So does the Powertech/Vanguard speciality of the Bounty Hunter and Trooper.

 

As for your question OP:

The ranged classes (DPS-specced) are: Commando/Mercanary, Sage/Sorcerer and Gunslinger/Sniper. Any other class doesn't perform well at a 4m+ range.

Commando/Mercanary feels the most like a Turret class to me. They have a lot of cast-time abilities in their optimal rotations, for this reason they can be difficult to play in PvP environments if your enemy knows what he's doing. But they do have 30% movement increase that protect vs movement impairing effects and an ability that makes 1 or 2 abilities instant for on the move.

Sage/Sorcerer have a bit more movement with Force speed and the damage over time gets cast on the run, still they have a few casttimes depending on spec, mainly the burst spec (Lightning/Telekinis.) On top of that they have no defensive cooldowns minus an invincible bubble that has to be channeled, has it's uses but not quite like other classes. They do have a few instant heals requiring 'only' a global cooldown.

Gunslinger/Sniper have the most mobility in my opinion, but not until level 51+ and varies depending on your spec. The cover mechanic is annoying to get used to, but makes you immune to interrupts and ability pushback, giving you a big edge over the other 2 ranged DPS in a PvP envoirment on top of being unable to get leaped to. Their burst (especially in Marksman) is very impressive. Casttimes are there, like any class, but the damage is a high and in quick succession.

 

For all these reasons I honestly think Gunslinger/Sniper fit the description of what you want the best. However it might be worth giving one of the others a try if you really think you won't ever get comfortable with the cover-mechanic. All classes can fare really well in soloplay. They all got plenty of AoE and plenty of damage with survivability (Sages/Sorcerers have to get it from a bit of self-healing though.) I'd highly recommend taking a tanking-companion for the Commando/Mercanary and Sage/Sorcerer to avoid ability pushback, where-as a Gunslinger/Sniper can manage with any companion without it hindering their play.

 

Sharpshooter/Marksman is the only spec in my opinion combining burst with movement. An example: This pesky melee character finally got in your range (quite a challange with all the knockbacks, roots and anti-leap) you press 1 button -> You roll to a safe distance, gaining not only Entrench (anti-stun / AoE damage) for a short period of time or increased movement speed if you chose to leave the Entrench, you also gain an instant snipe. Distance, little loss of burst and a defensive cooldown, all in 1 global cooldown.

Though a Gunnery/Arsenal Commando/Mercanary is a close second with their 2 instant abilities whilst on the move, shame it's once every 2 minutes or so.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Gloomycakes

Thank you all! There is alot of good information here. I think, based on the advice I have gotten, I am going to try out the Merc and Sniper classes first...maybe with some time I can get used to the cover mechanic. I guess I just got so used to running around like a hooligan on my hunter spamming instant casts that I need to relearn my tactics.

A few more things.

 

I believe your bags are called inventory, and you can have up to 80 (?) slots. It should be cheaper for subs to unlock additional slots, but you might consider checking out prices for account wide unlocks on the GTN (AH). With enough alts, it might be better.

 

Your bank is called a cargo hold, which subs get access to when they are assigned or steal a ship (roughly lvl 16-20). You can get up to 5 tabs of bank slots, purchased either with creds (subs) or cartel coins. Once again, you might consider looking into account unlocks if they exist on the GTN. Just make sure you are getting the extra holds and not the unlock for the first hold.

 

The GTN can be found on your home worlds -- Dromand Kass / Coruscant -- as well as the fleet and Nar Shadda. Eventually you can unlock access to the GTN on your ship.

 

There are two additional companions you can unlock / purchase. Tweek is a mercenary Ewok and supposedly the best companion healer in the game. HK-51 is an assassin droid who was originally the top dps companion in the game, though I am not sure where he stands presently.

 

There are a few other things I had to relearn coming from WoW, but can't think of anymore at the moment.

Companion Affection - Just as you used to "feed" your hunter pets, so to must you pamper your companions (well, you will need to torture the masochists).

 

Don't worry about affection at the start, just learn the class. I would then recommend training at least one mission skill once you hit fleet. Focus on missions that reward companion gifts, with Rich > Bountiful > Abundant (?) having the chance to crit. Feed the greens to your companion even if it is just a small gain in affection, sell the rest.

 

Alternatively, you can visit the gifts vendor, find your companions favorite gift and buy somewhere between 100-150 rank 1 gifts. Rank 2 gifts are not worth the extra cost in my experience. Then watch tv as you start clicking on the stack.

 

For each 2k affection, your companion will output more healing / dps, craft better, and have a better chance of critting on missions (max of +5%). Your companions will also excel in two crafting areas, either being more efficient (5, 10, or 15% faster) or having an increased chance at critting (1, 2, or 5%). By default, I believe you have a 5-10% chance to crit on orange difficulty patterns, 10-15% chance on yellows and greens.

 

After you get to rank 3 at 6,000 affection, you can start picking up the missions your companions offer. These are seen as "quests" over there heads when they are in cantina's or on your ship. Some conversations are only allowed to be held on your ship. You don't have to wait until 6k affection, but it is more efficient.

 

Hope that helps.

I'm very biased towards ranged DPS as well and all my maxed out characters are the 3 main ranged classes.

 

My commando (merc) is definitely the most mobile and probably the one you'd want to check out. Many people say it's a turret class but only because they play it wrong. A couple of attacks in the rotation are casted so you have to stop every so often. But the 3 attacks for its big burst output are instant mobile attacks at 30m range.

 

Sorcerer (counselor) is alot of fun to play as well. Basically a ranged magic caster. But isn't as mobile, more of a run, cast run play style.

 

The sniper (gunslinger) is the most immobile. Basically a turret for most of his heavy hitting attacks. Once you get used to the cover mechanic it's very fun and a powerful mobile gun emplacement. But definitely not mobile in the sense of run and gun.

Doh. My bad. Operative/Scoundrel and Assassin/Shadow are not ranged as was pointed out. They do have abilities that are ranged ,but those should not be considered their primary tools.

Basically im looking for the SWTOR version of a hunter, lol.

 

Hmm, well you don't like cover so that rules out Agents/Smugglers.

 

You suggested ranged dps so I'd have to recommend Mercs/Commandos just because Sorcs/Sages don't seem very hunter-esque.

I'm very biased towards ranged DPS as well and all my maxed out characters are the 3 main ranged classes.

 

My commando (merc) is definitely the most mobile and probably the one you'd want to check out. Many people say it's a turret class but only because they play it wrong. A couple of attacks in the rotation are casted so you have to stop every so often. But the 3 attacks for its big burst output are instant mobile attacks at 30m range.

 

Sorcerer (counselor) is alot of fun to play as well. Basically a ranged magic caster. But isn't as mobile, more of a run, cast run play style.

 

The sniper (gunslinger) is the most immobile. Basically a turret for most of his heavy hitting attacks. Once you get used to the cover mechanic it's very fun and a powerful mobile gun emplacement. But definitely not mobile in the sense of run and gun.

 

Commando (looking at Gunnery perspective mainly) relies a lot on: Grav Round and Full Auto as cast-times, Demolition Round, Electro Net and High Impact Bolt as instants. Other skills to look at would be Plasma Grenade and Mortal Volley but since they're AoE/Energy management (Wih Reserve Powercell) and more used in PvP when you're not alone (and thus maybe not targetted) I'll leave them out. Demolition Round and High Impact Bolt both have a 15 second cooldown, leaving 2 Global Cooldowns to move every 15 seconds, Electro Net has a 90 second Cooldown. Then lastly there's Tech Override, on a 120 second cooldown you can cast 2 instants, likely Grav Round (if you need to move) or Plasma Grenade. I personally find them fine for a PvE envoirment (let's face it, any class can handle the movement phases if they know how to manage your class.) But for PvP that's very, very little. Not to mention a good DPS will rain down interrupts on your cast abilities if you even get a chance to stop running. So unless I missed something I cannot see this as the most mobile class from rDPS. Worthy mentions are Hold The Line and Concussion Charge, 30% increased movement speed won't save you from most melee, (I won't disagree the power it has in situation requiring more than just getting rid of a pesky melee) and Concussion Charge, great as it is, every rDPS has knockback, so won't make the Commando special as rDPS. Their do have arguably the biggest burst in the shortest time: Grav Round, Electronet, Demolition Round make for an amazing burst for 4.5 seconds.

For Assault Specialist similar argument, except they have more instants, allowing move movement, but still rely on 1.5 casts and Full Auto, likely Gunnery, in between. But since I haven't seen an AS I wouldn't know exactly how they're played by the majority of people.

 

A Gunslinger is best played if left alone and be a turret, but it has surprisingly good movement depending on spec. Since the introduction of High Tail it (20 second cooldown, rolls 18 meters (removes slow, so it's always 18m) and lands you back into croutched cover, whilst rolling you dodge all attacks) you can press 1 ability and in 1.5 seconds you've got a big distance between you and your target and the best thing is, unlike a Sage force-speeding away, you can't get leaped to straight after. On top of this (if you're an experienced player) you can abuse roll into cover to quickly get away from opponents, this took me a while to get used to, but once you do, it's beyond amazing and gets you called a hacker a lot, likely meaning the enemy found it just as effective.

If you're a Sharpshooter this can also be used when you're not in danger to quickly go places. High Tail it -> Heads up triggers (50% increased movement speed and grants immunity to movement impairing effects, 6 seconds) and you just covered more distance than a Commando or Sage could (if you know how to cover more distance quicker, please tell me.) Even if you're not a Sharpshooter, 18m in 1 Global Cooldown? I'd like to see another rDPS try.

Besides the point I also feel cover gives Gunslingers the best protection from being a rDPS, i it provides anti-grapple, anti-ability pushback, anti-interrupt and when you push your God-moment button (sorry, Hunker Down) you're also immune to Knockbacks and Stuns. Same Pushback as other classes, a root only second to Electro Net (even cooldowns considered, Electronet is the most amazing ability ever.) and a breaks on damage 30m stun. These things get enhanced depending on spec.

In return Gunslingers likely have the lowest burst over a short period of time, but a more sustained/build up burst instead (unless your enemy is a moron and stands in XS-flyby)

 

But it sounds like you're most experienced with Commando and thus biased towards Commando and I'm possibly the same with Gunslinger, though I can't say I'm very experienced with playing it. Spend a lot of time practising being able to counter it instead. I'm open for being proved wrong, but I'd rather hear why than "people just don't know how to play" because that could easily be my response to your Sniper remarks. I agree they 'always' need cover (in combat) but it's off Global Cooldown and thanks to High Tail It, it's easy to do whilst covering distance? From a PvE-only PoV I'd say Commando's and Gunslingers are equal since most mechanics are very kind to the Techoverride cooldown, given them full 6 seconds first 15 seconds and another 3 seconds the 15 after to move freely. But Gunslingers cover a big distance at once, shoot at the enemy a bit, repeat. Whilst in a DoT spec applying DoTs when moving normally and in Marksman a combination of High Tail It and leaving hunker down at the right time.

 

(Lastly the Sage, it's very dependant on the fight. In a 1 v 1 they can likely (in Balance) pull out the best advantage in movement, but Sage's movement advantage comes primarily from disabling the enemies movement; Force Slow, Telekinetic Throw, Sever Force whilst enhancing your own Mental Alacrity and Force Speed. But you're not very often alone, any mDPS that's equal to your skill won't be stupid enough to engage a Balance Sage on it's own unless he thinks you're really bad at your class, or he has a godcomplex.) So I'd give this it's own special group. Vs a team (that works together) it's likely buttom-line.

 

 

 

To the OP:

If you try your sniper again I highly recommend binding cover to a super easy hotkey, after playing it for a while it gets so natural pressing that button before you go into action. I personally enjoy my Croutch on crtl 10 and alt 10 (naga) for roll into cover (it's not used a lot, but once you know the roll into cover places in PvP I think it deserves a hotkey on any Agent/Smuggler.) A friend of mine really likes to play in a 1-2-3-4-5 repeat *cringe* and simply put it on 1. It wasn't half as difficult to get used to as I thought. But I'm very new to the standard MMO mechanics not having played WoW, so if you think it will never become your thing I'd say Commando/Merc all the way.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Gloomycakes

Welcome to SWTOR!

 

I also came here from a few years of WoW, and this guide was immensely useful for me. It's probably a bit outdated, but you may want to give it a read.

 

http://www.torhead.com/guides/swtor-for-the-wow-player

Commando/Mercenary is the running & gunning class. I currently play an arsenal mercenary and it's a lot of fun once you get heat seeking missiles. The down side is that the spec is kind of boring until level 45 when HSM first becomes available. Once you get to the later levels, the mercenary's full burst is awesome. You also get a 30 metre interrupt which is a nightmare for enemy healers.

Just a thought but you might also really enjoy the Powertech route. Sure you are not as far back as the Merc would be, but it gives you a lot of survivability and run-n-gunsnienss

Welcome to SWTOR OP, hope you found the class you're looking for!

 

Just out of curiosity to the people stating Mercanary is the run and gun class, is anyone actually willing to explain why because I'd really like to know.

 

Kerensk only mentioned their instants, which like Gloomy pointed out are 2 every 15 seconds and some with longer cooldowns, not 'that' much better than Sorcerers have with Affliction/procced Chain Lightning or Afflicition/Creeping Terror/Death Field every 18 seconds. Or Snipers with their DoTs and Takedown, that's about 4 in 21 seconds, or Plasma Probe, Interrogation Probe, Corrosive Dart every 18 seconds (?) leaving only Marksmen (with nothing more than instant Snipe after re-entering cover and Corrosive Dart) to be worse of than Arsenal in the movement whilst casting department?

 

Anyway I'd love to have answers rather than claims so maybe I can start feeling a bit less turrety on my own Mercanary.

Edited November 8, 2013 by KittyCheshire

Anyway I'd love to have answers rather than claims so maybe I can start feeling a bit less turrety on my own Mercanary.

Well I'm a PvP player, the DPS rotation won't be as high as standing and casting but standing in one place is death in PvP.

 

Rotations are just suggestions in PvP but game play kind of works like this.

 

When initially rushing the enemy, setup in a safe place at 30m while your teammates leap into the melee (near columns and on balconies is best) . Fire off 2 grav rounds for 4 stacks of (I forget the name of the proc, the one we lean on). Usually by the 2nd shot is when you get noticed and interrupted, luckily you're already on the run to your second firing position.

 

Throw a sticky grenade, demo round and HiB. They all hit about the same time and your target will die or be close to death. If you're still running mix in some hammer shot, you need to do a few for ammo maintenance anyway (3 mobile instants, 2 mobile hammer shots, 2-3 grav rounds, and maybe a full auto sustains ammo and works around cooldowns).

 

When you arrive a your second firing position you can channel some full auto to finish your target off. The interrupt on grav round will be gone now. Now you can re-evaluate the situation and see what to do. Maybe choose another target and do a single burst on them, if there is a messy cluster**** drop some AoE into them. Toss some kolto to the melee if needed. Net a nasty juggernaut or marauder. Concussion round any healers that haven't been focused.

 

Basically setup your casted grav rounds for 3-4 seconds then relocate. You can sit and spam but the longer you sit the more often youll be noticed. Once you get interrupted you know somebody sees you and you should run elsewhere, you've got 3 powerful mobile attacks you can do while waiting for that interrupt to wear off. The melee that decided to interrupt and chase you will often think twice when those three hits knock them down to 10-20% and you have all your CCs and interrupts ready.

 

And it's best to stay at 30m but the commando knockback is the best in the game. It's great fun rushing a crowded catwalk and knocking the entire enemy team into the pit or at least off your healer or melee teammates back.

 

Bottom line: Commando has a ton of talents besides grav round. Spend 3 seconds to setup with it then cycle through all your other talents as needed. Pretty soon you'll find you're spending so much time overseeing the whole battle that grav round interrupts and full auto channels are not where you focus your time.

 

Also don't bog down in the math of cooldowns and making sure you do X then Y then Z. It's leads to tunnel vision and grav/auto spam. Good against target dummys and scripted mobs but in PvP it will get you noticed and focused and dead.

Well I'm a PvP player, the DPS rotation won't be as high as standing and casting but standing in one place is death in PvP.

 

Rotations are just suggestions in PvP but game play kind of works like this.

 

When initially rushing the enemy, setup in a safe place at 30m while your teammates leap into the melee (near columns and on balconies is best) . Fire off 2 grav rounds for 4 stacks of (I forget the name of the proc, the one we lean on). Usually by the 2nd shot is when you get noticed and interrupted, luckily you're already on the run to your second firing position.

 

Throw a sticky grenade, demo round and HiB. They all hit about the same time and your target will die or be close to death. If you're still running mix in some hammer shot, you need to do a few for ammo maintenance anyway (3 mobile instants, 2 mobile hammer shots, 2-3 grav rounds, and maybe a full auto sustains ammo and works around cooldowns).

 

When you arrive a your second firing position you can channel some full auto to finish your target off. The interrupt on grav round will be gone now. Now you can re-evaluate the situation and see what to do. Maybe choose another target and do a single burst on them, if there is a messy cluster**** drop some AoE into them. Toss some kolto to the melee if needed. Net a nasty juggernaut or marauder. Concussion round any healers that haven't been focused.

 

Basically setup your casted grav rounds for 3-4 seconds then relocate. You can sit and spam but the longer you sit the more often youll be noticed. Once you get interrupted you know somebody sees you and you should run elsewhere, you've got 3 powerful mobile attacks you can do while waiting for that interrupt to wear off. The melee that decided to interrupt and chase you will often think twice when those three hits knock them down to 10-20% and you have all your CCs and interrupts ready.

 

And it's best to stay at 30m but the commando knockback is the best in the game. It's great fun rushing a crowded catwalk and knocking the entire enemy team into the pit or at least off your healer or melee teammates back.

 

Bottom line: Commando has a ton of talents besides grav round. Spend 3 seconds to setup with it then cycle through all your other talents as needed. Pretty soon you'll find you're spending so much time overseeing the whole battle that grav round interrupts and full auto channels are not where you focus your time.

 

Also don't bog down in the math of cooldowns and making sure you do X then Y then Z. It's leads to tunnel vision and grav/auto spam. Good against target dummys and scripted mobs but in PvP it will get you noticed and focused and dead.

 

Thank you for the reply. That was really quick!

 

It's not really anything Commando specific though. Take the high-ground, keep 30m range, set-up (casted) abilities whilst unnoticed, don't stay in 1 place and use instants whilst on the move, do as much damage in the least time possible, don't use a set rotation. Using the cooldowns on the instants (or how long they last in DoTs case) is one of the few ways to compare 'time to be on the move' between classes, it doesn't mean all I know what to do is stand still and press 1 button... I must admit I was stupid enough to not use Sticky Grenade for burst but leave it for victims that are balling up around an objective. (Will definitely weave this into burst-moments from now on, so thank you!) but the rest is how any class at range already needs to play to stay alive and I'm quite certain most people already figured that out, I know I have and I'm far from good. All ranged classes can and will (except Gunslinger, there's always a leaper) play like that. Gunslinger more than compensates though with Hightail it, whilst you spend 4 GCDs using instants and moving, they sacrifice a bit of damage to move 18m in 1 GCD.

 

I'm still not convinced even with this that Commando has any more movement (though maybe I add up movement control and movement too much aswell as distance over time) than the other rDPS classes. Sages are squishy squish and vs more than 1 foe their defences crumble since it's (almost all) offensive defence, but 1 v 1 it's pretty impressive and Force Speed will provide a bigger distance over time to get away. Gunslingers, however, still astonish me at times (the good ones ofcourse) they take a nice position in cover, can't get leaped to, can Hunker Down for stun immunity, can stun at 30m range (and close-range) 1 or 2 pushbacks (depending on spec) and a root (breaks after 2 seconds on damage) and when the poor melee finally reaches them, they either roll by using the original cover if they're good or simply Hightail it. 18m, with slow immunity is just incredibly impressive (and annoying ) They are easier to LoS though (in my opinion) since they shouldn't want to leave cover with leapers around (which is almost always) but Cover is just, grr, like a small damage reduction from range and stun/push back immunty wasn't enough. All this whilst still maintaining enough damage to be a considerable threat. I simply don't see Commando's getting an advantage compared to them when it comes down to mobility even after you more elaborate explaination.

 

But ye like I said, maybe I simply count Movement and Movement Control too much as one thing, in which case we could likely agree to disagree.