Are you in Imp side or Pub side? I'm most active around night time APAC time and fleet is alive with people pugging for ops. (Word of advice, 16m GF is a waste of time and money. It very rarely succeeds.) You can always start a new one yourself. Alternatively, joining a guild that does raids regularly helps as well.

Don't jump into Ravagers and ToS right away if you've never done operations before. Make sure you're first geared and augmented, do DF/DP SM to practice raid awareness (important for tanks!) and clear at least four of HMFP to give you a taste of what to expect in Ravagers and ToS. Read guides and watch Youtube videos from tank perspective too. If you've done all of that, nothing is stopping you from starting your own pug group.

Joining a guild and finding raid group doesn't happen overnight.

Let me tell you how it happened to me. I was on my first toon, sage heals, and I met a tank in a fp (it was around 2.6), he must've thought I had some skill (because my gear was a total crap, I stacked on critical, most of it was basic or below, no augments), we started talking after a fp, he gave me gearing tips, we discussed my rotations and then he asked whether I was interested in joining their guild. I was in a dead guild atm (accepted a random invite on origin planet), so I accepted his offer. The guild consisted of a very nice bunch of people. They helped me gear up, and took me on raids with them, explained all the mechanics and carried me through. So they gave me my big break in the game.

I realize that this is a unique story. But here's how you can do it by yourself (how I did on the imp side). I leveled a few toons and I was doing flashpoints and pvping and whenever I met people with skill I would start talking to them and ask whether their guild needed people, would they like to recruit me. Several turned me down. Several guilds turned out to be dead guilds. Until I finally got in a big active guild. I actually impressed one of the members in pvp, asked about recruitment and they directed me to guild master, who invited me. Inside the guild at first I was just asking for groups for flashpoints and pvp and sometimes joined their ops runs when they needed someone to fill in, thus making acquaintances and growing my connections. Until finally several month later I became a part of a permanent progression raid group.

So my answer to you - this is a social game and although pugging is kinda a part of it, making friends and raiding with friends is a lot more productive and enjoyable though takes more time to get there.

Also before asking to join a guild it is helpful if you learn you class first and gear up and augment your gear. This just shows that you can pull your weight and can actually be helpful and not a burden, which increases your chances of being accepted.

All the best to you and I hope you clear Ravagers and ToS soon!

PS: As for the ops group finder: it is a way for pre-made groups to get extra reward and avoid travelling to the ops entrance. Don't even waste your time queuing for ops.

Are you in Imp side or Pub side? I'm most active around night time APAC time and fleet is alive with people pugging for ops. (Word of advice, 16m GF is a waste of time and money. It very rarely succeeds.) You can always start a new one yourself. Alternatively, joining a guild that does raids regularly helps as well.

 

Don't jump into Ravagers and ToS right away if you've never done operations before. Make sure you're first geared and augmented, do DF/DP SM to practice raid awareness (important for tanks!) and clear at least four of HMFP to give you a taste of what to expect in Ravagers and ToS. Read guides and watch Youtube videos from tank perspective too. If you've done all of that, nothing is stopping you from starting your own pug group.

For these new ops ? There's a lot to stop you from starting your own group. These instances are totally anti-pug. Is it possible ? Pretty sure it is, but pugging these should be last resort.

At most, as "pug" goes, what I see is someone asking to fill their last 1 or 2 spots, requiring voice chat and, very often, a link to the achievement to prove you've already done them before.

Like it's been said, join a raiding guild. For these new ops, there isnt much place to casually play with others, only with your guildies.

True, I might have been too hasty on that. In my experience, Ravagers is more pug-able than ToS, but it really depends on the group you get. What I usually do is grouping together with two, three friends (filling tank and healer roles preferably) and pug the rest of the DPS.

power-alex brought up a good point; get into FPs and Warzones, play your class well, and talk to people. It's likely to grant you a spot in progression team, which is more reliable than pugging.

The problem is, that the advice "join a guild and your problem is solved" removes even more players from "the PUG scene", making it completely non-existent in the end.

Is this what people want ? No more PUGs ?

It's a bit like saying "you've got troubles as an Republic player in PvP ? Roll Imp instead !" , this creating an MASSIVE inbalance towards Empire in PvP ...

The way we do:

We are a small guild with not enough people to make a 16 group but we are in contact with another small guild which is like the same as us. We are coordinated and it's very enjoyable. We only had to split in Underlurker/Torque but we finish last bosses with 16 man.

The problem is, that the advice "join a guild and your problem is solved" removes even more players from "the PUG scene", making it completely non-existent in the end.

 

Is this what people want ? No more PUGs ?

That's not what I want. But realistically, these new ops, the story modes, are not pug material. What was the reasoning, on BW's side, to make them virtually unpuggable I don't know (and that would be a good question), but that's what it is. If you want to run them with good chances of clearing them, then do it with a guild.

Pugs are currently almost non-existant not because here on forums some of us suggest "join a guild", but because the instances are far beyond what the average pug can handle.

I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?

The few times I tried to pug them, it was a complete and epic mess after boss 1 on either operation and groups fell apart after a couple of wipes. After that, I only do them with my guild. That's my advice. /shrug

I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?

Same here, but we use a custom chat channel that those vouched for can only access, so not truly a pug in this sense.

And as far as "guilding up and finding a raid team" you can think of it like a job. You don't immediately become CEO, you slog through the SM all-star & FP kings guilds and make connections to get into better and better guilds. Plop an alt into a higher level guild and hop in when they're forming for runs and let the raid lead know you're down to fill in if needed.

When you find a comfortable spot on the way, stop climbing and enjoy the game with those folks.

I think the real problem is with the group finder. It's unbelievably limiting. I'm sure more people would think of pugging if they could Que for hard mode, story mode, ev, kp, ec, df, dp, 8 man 16 man etc. The fact that someone needs to sit on the fleet and watch general chat for a pug group is a terrible use of time, and I don't blame people for not wanting to deal with the hassle.

I've had varying degrees of success with pug groups. Typically flashpoints go off without a hitch (minus Imos who I might clear 40 percent of the time with a pug group which might even be on the high side). I've successfully pugged hard mode dread palace. But really, pugging an op is time consuming especially if it's hard mode.

I don't think a lot of pug eligible players' attitudes will change regarding time spent towards clearing an entire op, but at least the group finder could use some improvements to at least provide a foundation for people to group for operations.

I think the real problem is with the group finder. It's unbelievably limiting.

I agree to 200 %. No, Rather 300 %.

That thing needs an 200 % , no, 300 % overhaul !

I agree to 200 %. No, Rather 300 %.

 

That thing needs an 200 % , no, 300 % overhaul !

Ha. It really bothers me that the group finder is what it is today. I remember when we didn't have a group finder (and walked to school in our bare feet for 10 miles...in the snow...dodging horse drawn carriages) and we finally got a group finder. It seemed great at that time. Back then it was far less limiting than now. To only be able to use group finder for certain ops, and only in 16 man is just a huge mistake to me. I understand that they want to open the gate for more participation, but man it's just crazy that their final idea was to make it so inflexible.

I realize that this is a unique story. But here's how you can do it by yourself (how I did on the imp side). I leveled a few toons and I was doing flashpoints and pvping and whenever I met people with skill I would start talking to them and ask whether their guild needed people, would they like to recruit me. Several turned me down. Several guilds turned out to be dead guilds. Until I finally got in a big active guild. I actually impressed one of the members in pvp, asked about recruitment and they directed me to guild master, who invited me. Inside the guild at first I was just asking for groups for flashpoints and pvp and sometimes joined their ops runs when they needed someone to fill in, thus making acquaintances and growing my connections. Until finally several month later I became a part of a permanent progression raid group.

I don't think your story is as unique as you think. You mentioned that you had total crap gear, but the tank thought you were killing it. There is a level of skill to this game that will outweigh gear to an extent. I'm notorious for doing OPS under geared or without augments (at least starting out until I get them) but I've always got through the content with whatever garbage gear I brought. If you're good you are good. People would rather have an under geared (again to an extent) tank or healer that knows what they are doing than an over geared guy that can't pay attention.

People always want a good healer or tank. If you're pulling the numbers you need without top gear, EVEN BETTER.

I agree with the core of what is being said here, learning new ops works best in a guild group, especially when you are a new tank, as tanking is the most critical role mechanics-wise. Having a mentor-minded main tank makes life much easier, especially if you can be in voice to hear the calls for tank swaps.

Having said that, I have pugged Ravagers and ToS successfully several times, but as ranged DPS, where the main mechanic is don't stand in colored circles. I run a raid group in guild, but I also pug on alts, partially for the gear, and partially to see how other folks do things. The good tactics I take back to my team. I run on Harb and find the best pugging times are Tues-Wed evenings when the main raid groups are pugging to fill holes in their raid line-ups or on Sun-Mon evenings for folks who were gone over the weekend and are willing to try almost anything to get a few comms and a chance at set piece gear. I will grant you, there are far fewer pugs than in the past, and the level 60 ops are not very newbie friendly.

Your best option is to read up on the missions, watch videos, get your gear up to at least 186 standards (especially the weapon hilt/barrel, and for a tank, the chest/head/legs armor slots). Similarly, a tank survives on armor and health, so having as many augs as you can, really helps you be survivable. When the tanks die, the raid typically wipes. And can someone explain to me why so many dps pugs have great looking outfits with 192/198s and a sub 186 mainhand?

When someone calls in general chat for 1 tank, jump on it, but when they ask for 2, be sure to bring lots of credits for clones, and repairs. Cloning and Kolto are the staples for pugs.

I often lead pug groups for 16m Rav or ToS when I'm not doing progression. I just like to clear things and get comms I don't use and gear I probably won't need, but it's all I'm interested in at the moment.

I always make sure to provide my guild's mumble server for tanks and for those who haven't been there, and I try to explain all mechanics per class and multiple different methods things can be used so they'll work more efficiently in future pug groups.

What server are you on?

On my server I almost never see a PuG for ToS, this seems to be done with raid groups exclusively. Since 2 weeks or so I see anouncements for Ravager groups regularly (both groups looking for the last spot to be filled, and guys starting a fresh group).

This seems to indicate that Sword Squadroon and Underlurker are still cockblocks for PuG's.

As for myself I'm only doing the new ops with folks I know (either with my guild or FL people). I'm not going to PuG them, it's not worth the time, imho, if it is not a guild group filling the last spot.

I think for Ravagers we will see successful PuG runs (without a core guild team) regularly soon though, but to be honest I don't see this happening for ToS.

I often lead pug groups for 16m Rav or ToS when I'm not doing progression. I just like to clear things and get comms I don't use and gear I probably won't need, but it's all I'm interested in at the moment.

 

I always make sure to provide my guild's mumble server for tanks and for those who haven't been there, and I try to explain all mechanics per class and multiple different methods things can be used so they'll work more efficiently in future pug groups.

Kudos to you. Nice to see some experienced people helping out other players instead of just vilifying them. Out of curiosity what is the completion rate of these pug groups you organize? As in do you always get the entire op done?

I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?

My guess, the same people that just think BH is the only class for everything, and it cant be done with sorcerer heals or melee dps.

I pug Ravagers at least 2-3x per week and ToS once. Who are these people saying that these OPs are not puggable or that they are overly difficult? Are you really that terrible at this game?

No idea about ravagers (haven't done it yet), but I pugged Temple a few times now - some wipes on the 3rd boss, but that's about it, the rest is absolutely puggable.

I can never find a group for Operations. It's like I'm the only one looking to PUG. SM queue? forget it. I've waited 4 hours and never got a pop. No one is ever looking for groups in general chat either? I'm on Harbinger. I don't know if that makes a difference or not. It's so frustrating! I hit 60 and now I have nothing to do cause I can't PUG Operations. =( Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I'm already a Tank =P. Yeah, I wait 4 hours as a Tank and don't get a pop. I don't know what to do, but if i can't figure it out I'll have to play something else but I love SWTOR!

and Harbinger its supposed to be the most populated server in game currently....geez....

Suggestion: Playing another game? that's what ill be doing. Yeah i loved swtor too but nowadays i just spend a lot of time watching the screen monitor doing nothing.

Also offering just a stupid purple crystal to stay as a sub on March, ha ha good one EA but if that serves you well good for you, for me just don't work im not that buyable.

and Harbinger its supposed to be the most populated server in game currently....geez....

 

Suggestion: Playing another game? that's what ill be doing. Yeah i loved swtor too but nowadays i just spend a lot of time watching the screen monitor doing nothing.

 

Also offering just a stupid purple crystal to stay as a sub on March, ha ha good one EA but if that serves you well good for you, for me just don't work im not that buyable.

Um...see you next December for the next expac maybe? You sound like you need a break.