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First time tanking.


Zerican

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So i hit 24 on my powertech shield tech BH and i wanted to get some experience in tanking some so i qued up for a flashpoint

 

I chose Athiss, I never done it before so I told them I've never been here before so i followed the quest markers and groups lead , we take down the first boss fine i kept aggro quite well and got no complaints so far..

 

Then we take down the big beast before fight they told me to tank against wall so i did. picked up adds as i tanked.

 

Aftter that we continue and a little trouble establishing aggro from a sith sorcerer but he kept attacking things I have no even hit yet but i just grappled them from him to get aggro.

 

We get to the third boss fight ? i think ( i have no clue really, )

 

It was 3 guys in a room so i aggroed them since no one explained what to do

 

Well apparently you need to pull each one out which i now know. We managed to kill 2 of them before I died and i kept aggro on all three for the most part and used cool downs to negate damage taken when i could but the whole fight the sith sorcer kept calling me an idiot and a noob(which I am a noob lol) and told me i should not be tanking.

 

I got no complaints before that,. no instructions before the encounter i just thought well got to keep em on me , interupt and avoid damage when I can.

 

I am not really sure if I should continue down tanking path or not? Should I join a guild and only tank with guild mates and friends and not bother with random flash point tanking? Is it normal for the SWTOR community to act this way towards new players?

 

I really like playing defender roles in most games, the one who takes the hits but I am not really sure if SWTOR is the right community for me. I always thought low level like 24 is the point where you want to learn things about the role you want to do at endgame...or do i need to wait to max level to start tanking?

Edited by Zerican
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This is common pain in pug anyway...

"ppl are often ranting "don't que if you don't know what to do"

 

you can allways tell them that this goes both ways "don't que if you cant deal with a chance of some newbergs being in the grp too"

 

Hold the line bro, hold it strong! :tran_cool:

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The good news is that you're trying and you're searching for information to improve your play. Kudos for that.

 

The bad news is that even using the 55 Hard Mode Flashpoint Groupfinder, you're going to find really foolish players who attack stuff before you do, jump into packs of mobs because they think they're hardcore (they're not), and other behavior that makes it frustrating as a tank.

 

Keep up the good work, and try to reason with bad group members. If reason and logic doesn't work, stop taunting stuff off of them. If they want to ignore the adds killing the healer so they can fight you for aggro on the bosses, stop taunting.

 

When they ask you why you didn't taunt, just say "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!" Eventually they'll learn to play better, or learn to love dying.

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Keep up the good work, and try to reason with bad group members. If reason and logic doesn't work, stop taunting stuff off of them. If they want to ignore the adds killing the healer so they can fight you for aggro on the bosses, stop taunting.

 

When they ask you why you didn't taunt, just say "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!" Eventually they'll learn to play better, or learn to love dying.

 

Poor behavior on the part of others doesn't excuse poor behavior on our part.

 

To the original poster...I know it is difficult to remain calm when people are insulting you but I would suggest trying anyway. If your group wipes and a member criticizes your play, just calmly ask them how to improve on what you did. That does one of two things. First, if your accuser actually know what they are doing, you are about to learn something. Second, if your accuser doesn't know what they are doing and are just playing the blame game, they will have nothing to offer and their own poor play will be exposed for what it is. At least then you know you can safely ignore them while doing your best.

 

A couple of days ago I queued as both damage and healing on my level 24 Telekinetics Sage. Group Finder matches me with a group in the healer role. No problem. I've done it before, right? Nope! I have terrible trouble keeping our tank above 50% health and we even wipe very early on in the Flashpoint. I figure it is my fault. One of the DPS asks why it seemed like no one was getting healed. I reply that I was having trouble healing our tank, not sure why. I was trying, but didn't have time and resources to heal DPS as well. The tank laughs and quits the group, so our DPS takes over as tank and we get another DPS from groupfinder. Smooooth sailing from then on. After the Flashpoint is done, the DPS-gone-tank explains that our original tank was very poorly geared and was very soft. His words, "After I thought about it, no one could have healed that tank at this level."

 

You might find the same sort of thing: you originally blame yourself and try to learn what's up, but then find out that it is others' poor play that is putting to much pressure on you. Groups are teams. It isn't always obvious who the weak link is, but I almost always assume it is me to start. It makes for a less contentious atmosphere and more fun.

 

Good luck,

Garik

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To me it sounds like you're doing a good job. Tank has 3 things he has to do: hold agro well, have decent gear with endurance and defense/shield, and lead the group. You appear to be doing 1 and 2 well, and learning to do 3, which is more than can be said about other players out there.

 

You should look under Preferences -> Keybindings for the marker symbols and bind them to the numpad or something. Then tell your group what the convention is: attack the Target, Blaster, Lightsaber, and sleep the Star, for example.

 

You need to know what crowd control is available in your group, and generally move whatever you've aggroed away from the sleeping targets so that AoE attacks don't wake them up. Also need to know which targets are casters and which targets will follow you because they are melee. Also, what special abilities the bosses have. So basically, because you need to control most of the fight while tanking it, you kinda become the boss.

 

Healer's job is to keep you alive, your job is also to keep healer alive, DPS job is to kill fast without gaining agro.

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You told them up front you've never done it before... they didn't give any advice on the pull... it's their own fault. That is assuming they knew what to do. If nobody did know, then it's a learning experience for everybody.

 

The player saying that to you is just being a jerk and I'd just ignore them.

 

As for dps pulling before I do when I'm tanking, I usually give them one warning asking them not to pull before I do. And explain it's easier for me to get aggro and hold it when I do the pulling. That alone is usually enough. On the rare occasion they don't listen, I give them a second warning telling them next time they pull I'm not pulling aggro from them and hope the healer can keep up with the healing.

Edited by altaboy
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You seem to be doing all right. It's reasonable to expect level 50-55 players to know the fights, but everyone has to learn sometime, and lowbies are unlikely to have been in a given flashpoint that many times. If you're worried about an upcoming pack of mobs, ask your groupmates if they know anything about them; it never hurts to ask. Keep it up.

 

One thing to bear in mind is that the tanking trees tend to develop slowly. As a Powertech you're lucky enough to start out with good AoE capabilities, but your rotation won't really come together until you hit level 26 and get 2 points in Hydraulic Shield, and your heat management in longer fights will suck until you get Heat Blast at level 45.

(Guardian/Juggernaut tanks don't have quite the rotation worries, but they have to wait until 26 for their rage management and until 45 for their AoE. Shadow/Assassin tanks get part of their Force management right off the bat, but they don't get the rest of their Force management until 27, and they have to wait all the way until 45 for their AoE and to get their rotation fully together.)

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It sounds like you did fine. The big beast is the tough one to tank, and you made it past that one.

 

The three elites(/champions?) you were talking about are not a boss, but just some tough mobs to fight on the way to the last boss. Pulling three at a time is usually a wipe, unless your group is overleveled or the group is overall solid *and* the healer is really good.

 

You should be able to pull just one at a time, or at most two. Wait for the walking ones to be close, and pull them separately, then try just pulling the nearest one, etc.

 

-----

 

If someone is pulling ahead of you and it's giving you trouble, feel free to tell them to stop. The tank should go in first, and they'll know that. This will happen more if you're going slowly, so if you're able you can try to keep a reasonable pace, but even if you're going slowly, they still shouldn't do it, and they should know not to, so just speak up.

 

Some tanks like to just wait for the dps who pulled to die after giving the first warning. I wouldn't necessarily advocate this, but do at least call them out (pleasantly, if possible).

 

------

 

People can be jerks when the littlest thing doesn't go the right way. If tanking is what you like to do, stick with it. That said, you'll have a lot of experiences where you won't know what to do, but people in your group will expect you to (even if they don't themselves know what to do). There will be times when nobody is both able and willing to explain, and you'll need to tread carefully and try to learn the mechanics on the fly or after a wipe or two.

 

If you find the going tough, you could try them as dps first (buy the field respec option, and have some dps gear available) to see the fights before you tank them. Or you could watch them on youtube or read a guide. Or just go in and let them know you haven't done it, like you did.

 

I wouldn't suggest picking up tanking when you get to 55 and not doing any of it while leveling. The leveling flashpoints gradually increase in complexity for the most part, and new twists are added at 50 and 55. You'll want to be comfortable with the class as a tank etc when you get to max level if that's what you're going to do then.

Edited by cxten
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I just returned to the game OP, but it is the same in all mmos. Few people like to tank because you really have the most responsibility of anyone in the group. You have to lead, you have to hold aggro and you have to be well-geared.

Also you have to be prepared for being blamed when virtually anything goes wrong, even if you are doing everything right.

 

I would love to roll up a tanking Vanguard but am going to pass as I won't have the gear and I won't know the fights. Will stick to a dps or support class first time around and maybe do a tank second time around.

 

Good for you though, get the best gear you can for your level, hold aggro as best you can and learn as you go. If people don't like it, they can find a new tank or roll one themselves :)

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The three elites(/champions?) you were talking about are not a boss, but just some tough mobs to fight on the way to the last boss. Pulling three at a time is usually a wipe...

 

You should be able to pull just one at a time, or at most two. Wait for the walking ones to be close, and pull them separately, then try just pulling the nearest one, etc.

 

 

^this

 

Don't sweat it. We all make mistakes. You definitely need a thick skin to tank. People will complain no matter what.

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So i hit 24 on my powertech shield tech BH and i wanted to get some experience in tanking some so i qued up for a flashpoint

 

I am not really sure if I should continue down tanking path or not? Should I join a guild and only tank with guild mates and friends and not bother with random flash point tanking? Is it normal for the SWTOR community to act this way towards new players?

 

I really like playing defender roles in most games, the one who takes the hits but I am not really sure if SWTOR is the right community for me. I always thought low level like 24 is the point where you want to learn things about the role you want to do at endgame...or do i need to wait to max level to start tanking?

 

My main (Solstar) is a Tank & my 2nd (Sheetara) is a Healer. My advice to you is Don't Give Up. I learned tanking while leveling & it took awhile till I mastered everything, from being in the correct stance (in your case having the correct cell active), guarding (in your case Shielding) the Healer & efficiently using my single/group taunts. Starting early is VERY IMPORTANT take your lumps & refine your skills while you are a "lowbie" once you've gotten to lvl 50 & 55 you will be Elite.

 

What I find funny is when i am playing my Healer i feel I am paying for every epic fail i ever committed when I was learning how to Tank. The bad tanks don't 1) guard the healer even when asked to. 2) They think they are a DPS when they are not (in wrong stance/gear). 3) Never initiate combat to establish agro. 4) Don't taunt or Don't taunt effectively to keep agro. I bring these up for purposes of comparison. As long as you are not guilty of the 4 points listed above then you are not doing a bad job, don't let some whiner get you down.

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The bad tanks don't 1) guard the healer even when asked to... 3) Never initiate combat to establish agro. .. I bring these up for purposes of comparison. As long as you are not guilty of the 4 points listed above then you are not doing a bad job, don't let some whiner get you down.

 

All good advice, Dak. I might disagree with #1 - when I tank, it's situational who I guard. If the healer is taking a lot of damage, I'll definitely guard them. But if they're not, I won't. Why guard someone who isn't taking damage? I'd rather put it on that dps that is stealing aggro or in aoe range. Just depends who is taking the hits. I'll switch if I need to.

 

#3) - There's a flipside to this one - I've seen tons of dps who have an itchy trigger finger, intiate combat, and just unload on mobs. They don't wait when they should. They don't manage their aggro. Granted - if the tank takes a really long time that's different. But generally speaking the tank should always be allowed to initiate combat. If they're taking too long then the group needs to speak up. I hate when you get over confident healers or dps trying to lead the group into combat. Silly. Know your place and your job in your group. If you don't know or aren't sure, just ask.

Edited by tharbison
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If the healer is taking a lot of damage, I'll definitely guard them. But if they're not, I won't. Why guard someone who isn't taking damage?

 

It's situational, but sometimes it's also a matter of psychology. Guarded healer feels more safe and thinks you're competent, thus he'll go more all out to heal you AND the DPS, rather than just you and otherwise avoid generating threat.

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It's situational, but sometimes it's also a matter of psychology. Guarded healer feels more safe and thinks you're competent, thus he'll go more all out to heal you AND the DPS, rather than just you and otherwise avoid generating threat.

 

Only time when healer gets aggro is when nobody is attacking the mobs or tank doesn't have enough threat over the mobs. For example beast boss in Athiss: adds that spawn will go for healer if tank isn't close enough to them or dps isn't attacking them (like they should do!). Threat healers generate is so pathetic that even ranged dps will steal the aggro from healer just by sneezing in general direction of mobs.

 

"Always Guard the healer" only works in early FPs (mainly Hammer station, maybe Athiss). Guard is situational ability that should be used when it helps (especially with healing). Don't ever Guard the tank though. I have to learn to use that more often.

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The bad tanks don't 1) guard the healer even when asked to...

 

Good tanks throw Guard on whomever is likely to pull agro. That usually isn't the healer (assuming the DPS are following the kill order).

 

Clueless tanks throw Guard on the healer, no matter what.

 

Bad tanks don't use Guard at all.

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Good tanks throw Guard on whomever is likely to pull agro. That usually isn't the healer (assuming the DPS are following the kill order).

 

Clueless tanks throw Guard on the healer, no matter what.

 

Bad tanks don't use Guard at all.

 

I did Athiss with my PT a while ago at level 19 and there was level 22 Marauder in the group. I didn't have to think who to Guard. :cool:

Edited by Halinalle
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I did Athiss with my PT a while ago at level 19 and there was level 22 Marauder in the group. I didn't have to think who to Guard. :cool:

 

Good point! DPS a few levels up will definitely need it! Otherwise it usually becomes clear after the first couple of fights who needs to be guarded. Don't just throw it on the healer. But also be ready to switch guard if needed.

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Good tanks throw Guard on whomever is likely to pull agro. That usually isn't the healer (assuming the DPS are following the kill order).

 

Clueless tanks throw Guard on the healer, no matter what.

 

Bad tanks don't use Guard at all.

 

Bored tanks don't use Guard either :D

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That's part of the reason why I dont tank and that is because it is much harder than any other role.

 

 

You have to know the layout of each flashpoint/op

Be able to avoid mobs( there are some crazy paths in flash points to avoid mobs

Know how to fight each boss

Know how to hold aggro well

Pulling adds and so on

 

Tank and healer tend to get blamed when ever there is a problem while dps almost never get blamed( dps just along for the ride)

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TIP: Having only read your comment on page 1 ill admit.

 

Use youtube, usually got a dulfy guide on there for each flashpoint, and see the mechanics for the boss fights. it gives you some kind of idea of what you're aiming to do and how to go about it. They often have a mechanic thatll make it much smoother if you have some kind of idea in advance, after try one you'd be fine anyway eh?

 

As the tank you are the leader and some quick 5 or 6 minute video will show you what you should all be doing so youre all going for the healer first then the dps for the tank boss that doesn't do any damage at all, rather than tanking the non dpsing tank and all taking a pasting from the dps whose being healed constantly by the medic....see what i mean?

 

Most players are fun to be with just don't do enough talking in fp's is about all i can say i have 9 toons and 6 are level 55 and well geared and overall and by far just like life its only the minority that are a problem so stick them on your ignore list. As a tank you'll get pops for fps every few seconds so stick with and have fun, im sure you'll enjoy it.......ALSO......its your job to keep the elites busy while the dps deal with the surrounding trash you don't have to keep every single npc under control but you do need to keep an eye to ensure npcs interested in the healer become more interested in you. If the dps pulls wrong target or don't let you build enough aggro to start with or even start the fight its their mistake and you don't have to make up for their inadequacies.

 

Good Luck

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Mhm make sure you glance a good tanking guide before you reach high level content.

Some key points to remember:

1. It's best to familiarize yourself with every FP you plan on tanking. Google it if you have to. Since you will lead and pull You are expected to know the fights.

2. Keep your pacing in sync. If your group is kinda slow taking out mobs and healing up after fights, take your time. If the group seems like they are rushing, try to match. Ultimately they need to be going whatever pace you are but we wanna keep everyone happy.

3. Make sure the healer isn't getting hit. U should be the only one getting hit if done properly, but holding aggro can be tough at time so in the very least make sure you don't have pressure on the healer.

4. Stay current on gear. this is probably most important for you than anyone else because if you die there a pretty good chance the rest of the team is going down.

 

The rest i'm sure you can figure out. As long as you enjoy doing it keep it up. We can never have enough heals and tanks. You're important and appreciated (even when it seems like you aren't lol)

Edited by jaytdasme
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