Wolfninjajedi Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) In regards to strike teams for Vader.....well Prince Xizor thought of doing that too but... Xizor was tempted to hire a dozen assassins, not tell them who their target was, and loose them on Vader. The killers would fail, of course, be squashed like insects by Vader with less effort than Xizor had expended on the man in the walkway. Vader could kill with a wave of his hand, though he enjoyed a chance to use his lightsaber from time to time. Xizor left his four bodyguards in the antechamber and went into Darth Vader's personal meeting room. The guards were trained in half a dozen forms of handto-hand combat, each armed with a blaster and each an expert shot; still, if Vader wanted to harm him, it wouldn't matter if he took four or forty men with him. The mysterious Force would let Vader block a fired blaster bolt with his lightsaber or his hands, and he could kill with a gesture, could freeze your lungs or stop your heart, just like that. I mean...unless were not gonna have Clones be the strike teams, that is pretty much it in a nutshell to send non-force users after a Sith Lord as powerful as Vader. It's also not like he hasn't dealt with a number of assassination attempts on his life before, so it wouldn't really be a surprise. Edited December 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 The entire idea of taking down Vader is to lay a trap down and have him taken out by Kenobi, Koon and the elite Imperial Knights, which is basically sure-fire. If Vader faced only Koon and Kenobi he might have a chance, but pile Imperial Knights on-top and his death is practically assured. Again, this is all based around a trap, something Vader has a bit of a tendency of falling into, knowingly or other wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I guess y'all really want this to be called.... To Bad. Here we go again. So, I'd juts like to point something out, to close the debate for the most part. Ways to Kill Mothma [*]Assassination Imperial Knights. [*]Riots Um... how? [*]Bounty Hunters Imperial Knights [*]Defection of Techno Union I think I've done enough to prove how unlikely that is. Plus I don't think Tambor's defection would give Mon Mothma a heart attack. [*]Sacking of Coruscant Check the Battle of Coruscant during the Vong War, then subtract OP Vong ships from your fleet. [*]She is on Balmorra Why would she go there? Maybe she's working with her generals on the fleet? If you assume Mon Mothma is mobile, that makes your job of killing her much harder. [*]Strike Team Imperial Knights. [*]Holocall (I had to) Mon Mothma would be pretty dumb to accept a holocall from her biggest enemy. [*]Vader Plo Koon and Obi-Wan Kenobi, plus some Imperial Knights for good measure. [*]Sing & Kanos Oh look! Imperial Knights! What a surprise! Has it occurred to anyone that Mon Mothma is incredibly hard to kill? She was on the run from the Galactic Empire for years. She may as well have been public enemy #1. She knows how to survive. Ways to kill Vader [*]Strike Teams (?) Completely possible. [*]Orbital Bombardment (this requires the loss at Balmorra) As I have shown, that is completely possible. [*]In Space Combat (although Vader can always leave via starship) Interdictors. I would also like to bring up Koon & Kenobi vs Vader once more. I'm just thinking that with either SG or EG (which Vader would have) or Sing and Kanos, Vader would win. Hell, I think he would win (albeit narrowly. Very narrowly) alone. But I would like to put this to debate. Because Kenobi and Koon would face him alone. It's not like they have a dozen trained Force users to call on, especially if they know Vader will have guards, right? I think it's time to call this. We're basically recycling the same arguments at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) The entire idea of taking down Vader is to lay a trap down and have him taken out by Kenobi, Koon and the elite Imperial Knights, which is basically sure-fire. If Vader faced only Koon and Kenobi he might have a chance, but pile Imperial Knights on-top and his death is practically assured. Again, this is all based around a trap, something Vader has a bit of a tendency of falling into, knowingly or other wise. But if Vader is to fall into a trap, he will do so with SG and EG, and with Sing and Kanos. And ti will be on Vader's terms. Something we need to remember is that Kenobi also wants to kill Vader. A trap could very likely backfire if Kenobi lashes out, or does anything stupid- which could very, very, very, very, very likely happen. Kenobi is a Jedi, sure. But this is Vader. He could easily get lost in rage, or guilt, or regret, or lust to kill. And Vader knows this.... EDIT: Aurbere, you only have 2 dozen (?) Knights split around 5 planets. And they aren't invincible, nor immortal. They make mistakes, and people get lucky. Sing could easily assassinate Mothma via her sniper rifle. Things happen. And Mothma was captured by Vader, IRC. She was saved by Starkiller's defection. She may know how to survive, but it seems that is a lot of luck. Edited December 18, 2013 by Canino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 (edited) But if Vader is to fall into a trap, he will do so with SG and EG, and with Sing and Kanos. And ti will be on Vader's terms. Something we need to remember is that Kenobi also wants to kill Vader. A trap could very likely backfire if Kenobi lashes out, or does anything stupid- which could very, very, very, very, very likely happen. Kenobi is a Jedi, sure. But this is Vader. He could easily get lost in rage, or guilt, or regret, or lust to kill. And Vader knows this.... Ehhhhhhhh....I'm not entirely sure on that Obi-Wan lashing out....that seems way too OOC for him(though it has happened only like...once IIRC) Edited December 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 But if Vader is to fall into a trap, he will do so with SG and EG, and with Sing and Kanos. And ti will be on Vader's terms. Something we need to remember is that Kenobi also wants to kill Vader. A trap could very likely backfire if Kenobi lashes out, or does anything stupid- which could very, very, very, very, very likely happen. Kenobi is a Jedi, sure. But this is Vader. He could easily get lost in rage, or guilt, or regret, or lust to kill. And Vader knows this.... Obi-Wan figured out that Vader was still alive. What did he do? Hid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Obi-Wan figured out that Vader was still alive. What did he do? Hid. Because he knew that he had to take care of Luke. Luke doesn't exist now. Think of the physiological effect of seeing Vader in the flesh and fighting him. Look at Maul vs Kenobi after Qui-Gon is struck down. Look at Maul and Kenobi, again, the first time they meet in TCW. Look at how Kenobi leaves himself open to a killing blow after Satine is killed. He has weaknesses that Vader knows, and he will be effected by Vader as much as Vader via Kenobi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yay. More debates -_- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canino Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Yay. More debates -_- Well, all I want is to debate Kenobi & Koon vs. Vader. AKA: Strike team vs Strike team. But Aurbere had to rip my entire post apart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Ehhhhhhhh....I'm not entirely sure on that Obi-Wan lashing out....that seems way too OOC for him(though it has happened only like...once IIRC) Erm this.... Canino I don't know which Obi-Wan Kenobi you are talking about but Obi isn't going to botch a mission by doing something he almost never does. It is also far more likely that Vader falls into a trap and he isn't going to bring some massive bodyguard force with him, that has never been his style, he almost always either goes solo or brings some stormtroopers, he is not going to bring royal guards, etc... with him. He is also not known for playing well with others, I mean Mara Jade, Tarkin, Thrawn anybody? he does not like playing with others and will likely want to be the sole mind in his campaign, which is why he decided, screw the Moff council, I will just build a Death Squadron and do whatever the Emperor tells me to, much more Vader's style. Simply put Aurbere's Ambush on Balmorra scenario is far more likely and he himself being led into a trap out of frustration for the campaign's failures is very likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Because he knew that he had to take care of Luke. Luke doesn't exist now. Think of the physiological effect of seeing Vader in the flesh and fighting him. Look at Maul vs Kenobi after Qui-Gon is struck down. Look at Maul and Kenobi, again, the first time they meet in TCW. Look at how Kenobi leaves himself open to a killing blow after Satine is killed. He has weaknesses that Vader knows, and he will be effected by Vader as much as Vader via Kenobi. Actually, Obi-Wan has never viewed Vader with anger or hate, he has always regarded him as his own personal failure and only ever with contempt, Vader is not his nemesis, Vader is the brother he loved turned into a monster. Not only that but for the longest time he thought Vader had died on Mustafar, when he saw him again on the holonet, he had no thoughts of hate or revenge, but instead his only concern was that Vader may come to Tattooine, not for a single moment did he think about avenging the Jedi Temple. Hell look at the duel on Mustafar itself, does Kenobi at any single time try to goad him, he attempts repeatedly to save the fallen Jedi, he doesn't hate him, he views him as 'a very great threat' the he must either return to the Light or eliminate for the sake of the Republic, not once in the ROTS novel does Kenobi have a thought of killing him out of personal revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 And ti will be on Vader's terms. Something we need to remember is that Kenobi also wants to kill Vader. Eh, sorry to rain on your parade but when Vader fights it won't be on his terms. Vader is forced to be aggressive and Balmorra is really the best target. Problem is he could severely damage the factories here but his naval losses will set him back far too much Everything relies on a first strike that can keep him in the fight, but he doesn't have the forces necessary for that. Also, Kanos is has no force sensitivity and Sing has some. The Imperial Knights are expert guardsmen who are also fully trained force users. Their entire job is defending leaders from people like Kanos and Sing. With Mon Mothma's already fantastic ability to survive assassins and the entire Galactic Empire chasing her, I think she'll be just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Well, all I want is to debate Kenobi & Koon vs. Vader. AKA: Strike team vs Strike team. But Aurbere had to rip my entire post apart Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Sorry about that. Kenobi, Death Squadron, and some of your planets... iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Kenobi, Death Squadron, and some of your planets... iirc You posted that in the wrong thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Beni, I think at this point we are going in circles. I think you are safe in going about the decision making process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 You posted that in the wrong thread Dang it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Post of the match:Now, we've already established that in a duel, Vader would probably beat Mon Mothma... Maybe.I kid I kid, but seriously what? I think we can be fairly certain who would win in a duel here. Edited December 19, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Post of the match:I kid I kid, but seriously what? I think we can be fairly certain who would win in a duel here. Definitely the audience who's winning there. No doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Definitely the audience who's winning there. No doubt.:confused::confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Post of the match:I kid I kid, but seriously what? I think we can be fairly certain who would win in a duel here. I win these things way too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 :confused::confused: He was saying in a duel between Vader and Mothma, it's the audience that truly wins.. I thought it was quite funny, myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 I win these things way too much Fool, you were merely the false winner! I just thought the post, worthy of mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 So calling this yet? Yes? No? Maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 He was saying in a duel between Vader and Mothma, it's the audience that truly wins.. I thought it was quite funny, myself Nope, don't get it. Unless he's implying that the audience would find Mothma's decapitation amusing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts