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Carnage/Combat Gearing in 5.6


theairbus's Avatar


theairbus
01.10.2018 , 01:55 PM | #1
With carnage's 3% boost to alacrity, it's super easy to optimize for the 1.3s gcd. Note: Earpieces/Implants provide the same stats as optimized gear, and count towards the enhancements necessary.
248 gear with 236 augments:
Mastery:
2x crystals, 1 augment(personal preference, either use 1 versatile augment, or swap it with a critical augment) (too lazy to add it all up, but it's something around high 6000s, low 7000s)
Accuracy
1 enhancement, 3 augments, 1 stim (765 accuracy)
Alacrity:
3 enhancements, 7 augments (1379 alacrity)
Critical:
6 enhancements, 3 or 4 augments, 1 stim (either 1911 crit or 2009 crit)

248 gear with 228 augments:
Mastery:
2 crystals, optional 1 augment - personal preference
Accuracy:
1 enhancement, 3 augments, 1 stim (759 accuracy)
Alacrity:
6 enhancements (1386 alacrity)
Critical:
3 enhancements, either 10 or 11 augments, 1 stim (either 1884 or 1980 crit)

Pudgies - The Harbinger / Satele Shan

SteveBroMan's Avatar


SteveBroMan
01.17.2018 , 11:14 AM | #2
Gearing for 1.3gcds is great in all but you'll have a high cd on battering assault and ferocity that will hurt your uptime. Between your non berserker BA and berserker BA you should have exactly 8 gcds. 6 with 1.3s gcd and 2 with 1.1 gcd. Add them up and you get exactly 10s. So running the 1360ish you'll have a 10.4s cd on BA. That means with perfect upime you'll have a .4s downtime every rotation unless you you fill the space with another ability which then pushes your burst back 1 gcd every rotation.
Xi'Niri

theairbus's Avatar


theairbus
01.17.2018 , 11:56 AM | #3
I experienced that issue super early on, and slightly changed my rotation to fix that (not really losing dps because we can't clip dst/vicious throw anymore). after opener, i go into: 2x massacre - battering assault - ferocity + vicious throw - devastating blast - assault - 3x massacre - (optional assault depending on rage) - berserk+dst - battering assault - massacre - ferocity+ ravage - devastating blast - gore - etc...

here is a parse done with that rotation/this gear http://parsely.io/parser/view/346714/0

SteveBroMan's Avatar


SteveBroMan
01.17.2018 , 02:07 PM | #4
The only difference is you are sacrificing 1 gcd after your berserk instead of before. at your alacrity BA used in berserk will have a CD of 8.1s and its taking you 9.4s of gcd between berserked BA and non berserked BA. it seems to be always 8gcd before berserk and 7 after or 7 before and 8 after. Its still works and a good rotation. but running higher alacrity you get the best up time on burst. I would suggest also doing the 2.5m dummy to get a better gauge of the DPS.
Xi'Niri

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
01.17.2018 , 03:28 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveBroMan View Post
The only difference is you are sacrificing 1 gcd after your berserk instead of before. at your alacrity BA used in berserk will have a CD of 8.1s and its taking you 9.4s of gcd between berserked BA and non berserked BA. it seems to be always 8gcd before berserk and 7 after or 7 before and 8 after. Its still works and a good rotation. but running higher alacrity you get the best up time on burst. I would suggest also doing the 2.5m dummy to get a better gauge of the DPS.
I think it bares keeping in mind that while the high alacrity built can get such results it assumes 100% uptime which in end game group content you won't have that to the degree you have on a dummy. Even a slight delay can cause the loss of the extra GCD so that stat investment by no guarantees the added GCD. It's wholly dependent on high levels of continuous uptime. When you have a good amount of uptime it's effects are easily seen, but without sufficient uptime it's value plummets dramatically.

While I don't discourage the high alacrity build, it does come at the price of a noticeable amount of burst damage. The burst damage you can count on, the extra GCD can be lost where sufficient downtime is encountered. I loved the high alacrity build pre 5.6, but with the extreme nerf to damage for some of the specs it's a luxury I don't feel I can afford in PVP given all the CC that gets thrown around every three seconds and wherein objectives may take precedence at times.

Fury is a whole different beast though, they do have better uptime in PVP compared to Carnage and Annihilation so it's a safer bet for them I'd think.

I've tried both the high alacrity build and the higher power/critical build since 5.6, and sadly the higher power/critical build tends to have better damage output overall [in PVP] I was hoping that wouldn't be the case
I really miss the high alacrity build, it felt so good. Carnage just doesn't benefit from it like it use to and I miss the pre 5.6 carnage playstyle. =[ PVE is a different matter of course in many instances.

Fun and enjoyment should also be a consideration, so whatever works for an individual, more power to em.
~ I am Grim.


"There's a word for Lightside Sith. It's called Jedi."

Kyuuu's Avatar


Kyuuu
01.17.2018 , 04:50 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I think it bares keeping in mind that while the high alacrity built can get such results it assumes 100% uptime which in end game group content you won't have that to the degree you have on a dummy. Even a slight delay can cause the loss of the extra GCD so that stat investment by no guarantees the added GCD. It's wholly dependent on high levels of continuous uptime. When you have a good amount of uptime it's effects are easily seen, but without sufficient uptime it's value plummets dramatically.

While I don't discourage the high alacrity build, it does come at the price of a noticeable amount of burst damage. The burst damage you can count on, the extra GCD can be lost where sufficient downtime is encountered. I loved the high alacrity build pre 5.6, but with the extreme nerf to damage for some of the specs it's a luxury I don't feel I can afford in PVP given all the CC that gets thrown around every three seconds and wherein objectives may take precedence at times.

Fury is a whole different beast though, they do have better uptime in PVP compared to Carnage and Annihilation so it's a safer bet for them I'd think.

I've tried both the high alacrity build and the higher power/critical build since 5.6, and sadly the higher power/critical build tends to have better damage output overall [in PVP] I was hoping that wouldn't be the case
I really miss the high alacrity build, it felt so good. Carnage just doesn't benefit from it like it use to and I miss the pre 5.6 carnage playstyle. =[ PVE is a different matter of course in many instances.

Fun and enjoyment should also be a consideration, so whatever works for an individual, more power to em.
yet some people dont see high alacrity as a dps lose, dummy dont hit back move or require target swaps and you to get off it to deal with mechanics. and in real environments this holds true which will result in dps lose less you have god like computer to with zero latency and there is zero server lag to be able to keep and not lose dps from doing all that, which would make the above a none issue .

Which hardly ever happens, and like always it comes down to personal preference and how said person plays

SteveBroMan's Avatar


SteveBroMan
01.17.2018 , 08:55 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I think it bares keeping in mind that while the high alacrity built can get such results it assumes 100% uptime which in end game group content you won't have that to the degree you have on a dummy. Even a slight delay can cause the loss of the extra GCD so that stat investment by no guarantees the added GCD. It's wholly dependent on high levels of continuous uptime. When you have a good amount of uptime it's effects are easily seen, but without sufficient uptime it's value plummets dramatically.

While I don't discourage the high alacrity build, it does come at the price of a noticeable amount of burst damage. The burst damage you can count on, the extra GCD can be lost where sufficient downtime is encountered. I loved the high alacrity build pre 5.6, but with the extreme nerf to damage for some of the specs it's a luxury I don't feel I can afford in PVP given all the CC that gets thrown around every three seconds and wherein objectives may take precedence at times.

Fury is a whole different beast though, they do have better uptime in PVP compared to Carnage and Annihilation so it's a safer bet for them I'd think.

I've tried both the high alacrity build and the higher power/critical build since 5.6, and sadly the higher power/critical build tends to have better damage output overall [in PVP] I was hoping that wouldn't be the case
I really miss the high alacrity build, it felt so good. Carnage just doesn't benefit from it like it use to and I miss the pre 5.6 carnage playstyle. =[ PVE is a different matter of course in many instances.

Fun and enjoyment should also be a consideration, so whatever works for an individual, more power to em.
Yeah I would never take high alacrity into PVP. Purely for PVE. I think the high alacrity vs lower can be situational to the boss and you will never have perfect up time however, you only need the uptime at a certain portion in the rotation for it to be effective. If I'm building and a mechanic arises where I don't get to use my BA on CD yes it nulls the gain. But if I am able to get it on CD in my rotation it eliminates the need for that extra gcd on the other end. There's many.many factors so I guess just leave it up to preference. Was just providing my stance if perhaps he/she was unaware and that 1350 alac isn't end all bc of gcd. I will say though that if you are good enough at the spec and know your rotation well it really won't matter dps check wise for almost all fights whether it's high or low alacrity . And for those certain few bosses probably wouldn't take carnage in its current state anyway :P
Xi'Niri

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
02.13.2018 , 12:39 PM | #8
I put this same post in the other thread, but that one started off more like a joke and this one seems more serious, so I'll repost my questions here:

So, in light of the GCD/Alacrity interactions that have been hotly debated, and considering some of my own characters, I wanted to ask, what exactly constitutes a high alacrity build?

Like, the alacrity targets in Bant's model, which would be around 1482 in tier 4 rating 248 gear? For an alacrity % of 16.11% on the character sheet, and 46.11% during the berserk window which is still a 1.1s GCD?

Or, is it higher, like around 2159 which would give 20% alacrity on the character sheet and reach 50% during berserk for a 1s GCD? I mean, on paper it seems like it would be valid, and when you look Veelox's top carnage/combat parse from last week on the 2.5 mil dummy, the APM is around 60, which would seem to imply that player has high alacrity.

Or more like 1375 Alacrity Rating for a 15.39% on the character sheet and a 1.3s GCD, just like Arsenal Mercs?
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theairbus's Avatar


theairbus
02.13.2018 , 12:46 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I put this same post in the other thread, but that one started off more like a joke and this one seems more serious, so I'll repost my questions here:

So, in light of the GCD/Alacrity interactions that have been hotly debated, and considering some of my own characters, I wanted to ask, what exactly constitutes a high alacrity build?

Like, the alacrity targets in Bant's model, which would be around 1482 in tier 4 rating 248 gear? For an alacrity % of 16.11% on the character sheet, and 46.11% during the berserk window which is still a 1.1s GCD?

Or, is it higher, like around 2159 which would give 20% alacrity on the character sheet and reach 50% during berserk for a 1s GCD? I mean, on paper it seems like it would be valid, and when you look Veelox's top carnage/combat parse from last week on the 2.5 mil dummy, the APM is around 60, which would seem to imply that player has high alacrity.

Or more like 1375 Alacrity Rating for a 15.39% on the character sheet and a 1.3s GCD, just like Arsenal Mercs?
2159 is too high. I don't know Veelox personally, but 20% alacrity results in a dps loss bc you'll run like 1100crit. Carnage's rotation has autocrits all around. Veelox achieves an apm of 60ish by running parsing utilities and using camo off cd for the dmg boost

SteveBroMan's Avatar


SteveBroMan
02.13.2018 , 01:08 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I put this same post in the other thread, but that one started off more like a joke and this one seems more serious, so I'll repost my questions here:

So, in light of the GCD/Alacrity interactions that have been hotly debated, and considering some of my own characters, I wanted to ask, what exactly constitutes a high alacrity build?

Like, the alacrity targets in Bant's model, which would be around 1482 in tier 4 rating 248 gear? For an alacrity % of 16.11% on the character sheet, and 46.11% during the berserk window which is still a 1.1s GCD?

Or, is it higher, like around 2159 which would give 20% alacrity on the character sheet and reach 50% during berserk for a 1s GCD? I mean, on paper it seems like it would be valid, and when you look Veelox's top carnage/combat parse from last week on the 2.5 mil dummy, the APM is around 60, which would seem to imply that player has high alacrity.

Or more like 1375 Alacrity Rating for a 15.39% on the character sheet and a 1.3s GCD, just like Arsenal Mercs?
The rotation he his parsing requires around 1800 alacrity to reduce the CD on battering assault to 10.1s for the best uptime on berserk
Xi'Niri