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Sent/Mara and ops

Dajman's Avatar


Dajman
01.05.2018 , 08:11 PM | #1
Do you guys find you have trouble getting into ops groups with this class? It's the only one I haven't tried at max and I am getting an itch to do so but if no-one wants glowstick buzzsaw dps then it may save me a bunch of effort. I just see suchndemand for tanks and heals and ranged. It's rare for anyone to ask for melee dps. Are we at a disadvantage on much of the content right now?

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
01.06.2018 , 03:02 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Dajman View Post
Do you guys find you have trouble getting into ops groups with this class? It's the only one I haven't tried at max and I am getting an itch to do so but if no-one wants glowstick buzzsaw dps then it may save me a bunch of effort. I just see suchndemand for tanks and heals and ranged. It's rare for anyone to ask for melee dps. Are we at a disadvantage on much of the content right now?
Given the defenses and self heals that some rDPS classes have, most notably Mercs and Snipers, and their ability in some cases to simply ignore certain mechanics, this really is a meta favoring ranged. In addition with their better uptime than melee due to attack range and being less effected by some mechanics, and that they tend to take less damage than melee, there are many raid groups who opt to take the easier way by utilizing rDPS over melee.

That's by no means to say that melee can't put up better numbers than they can if they are proficient in their respective specs, melee certainly can put up more DPS, but DPS is effected by uptime, Maras/Sents will always be in the most dangerous place you can be in a raid, in arm's reach of the boss. Mechanics will force them to move to avoid damage and at times that will place them out of melee attack range until it is safe once again, ranged simply don't have the same kind of challanges as melee in that regard in many instances.

That said, Marauders can do more DPS than ranged in theory. Melee is simply more challanging and less forgiving of mistakes and Marauders have a high skill set for optimal performance. If you reach that skill level you can do very well and do more DPS than ranged. The only reason why ranged would still be wanted over melee is because of uptime, the DPS cieling may be higher with Marauders but Marauders can find themselves forced into downtime where ranged can move around mechanics while still not missing a beat in their rotation so that uptime disparity can potentially lead to ranged doing more DPS than Marauders. A good Marauder learns ways to maximize their uptime and work around mechanics whereever possible, but there are variables involved and there are times they simply will have to move out of melee attack range for far greater amounts of time than ranged [Think Revan HM, ToS Master/Blaster, Malaphar, Sword Squadron, Cortitani, Ravgers - Bulo, Sparky, wookie boy ect.

There are some people that will tell you that Melee do not suffer more enforced downtime than ranged and that melee are not more prone to taking damage than ranged are. As a former progression raider HM/NiM up until 5.0 dropped, it is my opinion that you would be a fool to believe them.

There will always be exceptional players whom for whatever reason are able to do things that most others simply can't match, but they should be considered exceptions and not the rule.

In the present meta the only Marauder spec that any serious raid progression team would take would be Fury. Annihilation and Carnage have been nerfed a great deal and Fury basically performs much better in every single way. They took from them and gave to Fury. Carnage is complete garbage compared to what it use to be prior to 5.6 [in raiding] and Annihilation has been hit a few times to. Carnage was massively over nerfed unjustly, had it's playstyle completeing altered and lost more DPS in this meta than any other spec in the game. That isn't to say that Anni and Carnage can't meet DPS checks of any content, they absolutely can, but just being to meet minimum DPS checks is never the ideal option, and when you have one spec doing 1000 more DPS than the others, not taking Fury over Carnage or Annihilation would be effect be limiting your options. It's always better to have the higher DPS because it stands a better chance of covering DPS losses of others for whatever reason. If you want to play a Mara in end game raiding, Fury is pretty much your best chance of getting a melee DPS spot on a team and they can perform excellently.

Simply put, this is a Ranged meta. Ranged make it easier on healers, they enjoy more reliable uptime than melee and are easier to play than a Marauder. People do see bloodthirst as an asset, most teams want it, but, given that Fury can provide that as well, there is no reason for a group to take the other two specs. Anni has it's uses on some fights, there is no question about that, but pound for pound, Fury is better than the other's are numbers wise.

If you are an exceptional player, and you are able to put out higher DPS than other potentials with Carnage or Anni, you will be welcomed in a group providing they are aware of your high skill set. That applies to all classes and specs. All things being equal though, Fury is your best shot at getting a mDPS spot on a team. Melee can be very useful, and most times will want some, but as this meta so heavily favors ranged [Merc and Sniper] with their insane DCDs and heals for a DPS spec make them very attractive as they are far less of a tax on healers than melee tend to be. Melee definitely has it's place in raiding even now, most groups simply would prefer the ease and greater reliability that a skilled ranged DPS brings to the table, even if they do slightly less DPS than a melee's ceiling can potentially reach if played optimal. Marauders can be extremely potent and can do some great DPS in the right hands and those most skilled with Marauder will have it easier finding a place on a raid group. Without a reputation to speak to your skills or the demonstrations of highly skilled performance, if they don't need to fill a melee spot persay you will find a harder time getting a spot if you are not playing Fury. Fury is the FOTM marauder spec.

Fury is a great place right now, Annihilation and Carnage have never been worse off than they are right now in PVE do to multiple nerfs and over nerfs. What has been done to them is inexcusable. If you have a high skill set however, none of that will matter if you are on top of your game. Ranged is simply the safer choice wherein one or the other [melee or ranged DPS] is not specifically sought or needed. Safe, is not a word Marauders know and a careful Marauder is a useless marauder [in my experience and in my opinion].
~ I am Grim.


"There's a word for Lightside Sith. It's called Jedi."

Dajman's Avatar


Dajman
01.06.2018 , 03:38 AM | #3
Thank you for the breakdown. I figured as much. The sniper and sage are my two favorites so far... mostly for their utility. Funny how they offer my favorite things from my priest in wow as well only here. I have never been a huge huge fan of melee for dps in my 15+ years of raiding but I do dig some of the not potentials. In fact with the exception of maybe 6 months where I went melee dps to be used in the kick rotation, I usually only melee to tank.

That said I can see it completely. I cruised through my first HM op and was actually so shocked that I had to say it out loud... I thought it was ridiculous there was so little for me to do... I gladly offered to be in interupt rotations and to do the little things. Coming from wow where the last 3 expansions worth of raiding the devs just overload the ground with stuff forcing you to move every other cast... I think it's part of why I'm thirsty for melee in this game.

Probably I just need to see alot more of the operations before judging too harshly but a class to be able to shine on would be nice. And I actually worry that ranged has too little opportunity to show their awareness to what's around them.

PanVlk's Avatar


PanVlk
01.07.2018 , 04:14 PM | #4
My main is a sentinel (watchman), and I don't have problems getting into ops. I am in a stable raiding team of our guild (nothing too crazy, mostly just HM and few nim bosses for the moment, as we are casual guild) and I think one sentinel in a group certainly brings a good value. Not only melee can really dish out higher damage than ranged in many fights, sentinel/mara also brings a lot of utility, like raid buff and speed boost. It also has very strong defensive cooldowns, so if you know what you are doing, you shouldn't pose much more stress on healers than ranged classes.
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Threjyan's Avatar


Threjyan
01.08.2018 , 05:44 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Dajman View Post
Do you guys find you have trouble getting into ops groups with this class? It's the only one I haven't tried at max and I am getting an itch to do so but if no-one wants glowstick buzzsaw dps then it may save me a bunch of effort. I just see suchndemand for tanks and heals and ranged. It's rare for anyone to ask for melee dps. Are we at a disadvantage on much of the content right now?
not at all.

marauders and sentinels (all specs) can do all content in hm, and i can think only some of the apex bosses one would have issues with certain specs.

- carnage/combat its true has been butchered (i loved it in 2.0 era), but u can play with no issues on all hm content and nim like 95% of the bosses.
- anihilation/watchmen can do all the content hm/nim.
- fury/concentration seems to be the FOTM class, due to some internal miscalculation, alacrity seems to be in favour for this spec and currently it is parsing higher then the designed meta BW gaves us.

in any case, if you are having issues to join a group or ops, because the raid leaders, dont want sent/mara you should be better off not joining them - it clearly reveals lack of knowledge of the game

everybody knows, mara/watchmen is a desired class for any guild that does operations - the utilities + the dps - it brings to a rading guild its to good to be left outside.
..The Path Of Excess Leads To The Tower Of Wisdom..

Yezzan's Avatar


Yezzan
01.11.2018 , 05:04 AM | #6
level 50 toons can queue for ops so I dont see what the problem is...