would be good if focused defense procced from attacks you make instead of taking hits.

What would this help with? It seems to me this just adds the potential to get globalled right through the DCD to the list of issues it already has.

What would this help with? It seems to me this just adds the potential to get globalled right through the DCD to the list of issues it already has.

Another option is to make focused defense be time-based and not stacks based. That would mean it technically works like a merc reflect without the reflect and can serve as a real anti-focus because unlike the current version a bunch of DPS can't simply consume all stacks and move on as if it didn't happen

lol Rafi's not the one with the obsessive need to be right...

 

Just look at his other thread... 2 pages of reported quotes.

 

I think the guy needs professional care and I am not saying this with malice.

Just look at his other thread... 2 pages of reported quotes.

 

I think the guy needs professional care and I am not saying this with malice.

 

Oh my goodness, just now I saw what you meant. Thread has been dead for 13 days and is resurrected for the sake of a /report tantrum on posts that have no reportable content, simply due to not having a single logical response or even an illogical justification for being illogical?

 

I wonder what do new readers think when they randomly check the bumped thread right now...

17 pages.. of trolling and going haywire off-topic.. 17 full pages...

 

Unbelievable..

 

Nobody cares, man.

 

It doesn't even matter that your attempts to set Rafi up as the bad guy are super-transparent...nobody cares that you had a spat with him. I seriously even doubt HE cares that much.

 

If you're going to report a post (even this one, I guess), just do it. Don't quote the thing to us, don't tell us you did it, please, just report it and move on. We don't need to know. We don't WANT to know.

Oh my goodness, just now I saw what you meant. Thread has been dead for 13 days and is resurrected for the sake of a /report tantrum on posts that have no reportable content, simply due to not having a single logical response or even an illogical justification for being illogical?

 

I wonder what do new readers think when they randomly check the bumped thread right now...

 

I had to go look too. OMG, I can’t believe all those replies they made to your posts. I wonder if thats considered trolling 😉

Assuming your average dps jugg is 125k hp

 

Also assuming average skill

Endure pain = 35k damage reduced

Enraged defense = 0-15k healed back

Saber reflect = 15k yellow damage reduced

Saber ward = 15k yellow damage reduced if stunned

Mad dash = 1.5~ second immunity

Leap (veng *restricted 10m and snipers non leapable) = 15k damage reduced, stun immunity

 

Longest cds (3 minutes/2 minutes)

Saberward

Enraged defense

 

Normal cds (1 minute/45s)

Saber reflect

Endure pain

Mad dash

 

Short cds (veng)

Leap

 

Suggestions, make snipers leapable to for juggs and reduce leap minimum range to 0m. Add veng leap effect to rage. Can also increase duration of saber reflect to 6 seconds or reduce cd.

 

Taking away soresu in 5.0 meant 20% more dps taken by the average player. Fixing leap and reflect would make up for it. Yes I miss achieving 85% dr on my veng jugg in 4.0. But it was also a major nerf alongside of the ED nerf and then a mobility nerf to EP... Too many nerfs now jugg needs a slight buff.

Where are you getting the reduction numbers of the DCDs?

Taking away soresu in 5.0 meant 20% more dps taken by the average player. Fixing leap and reflect would make up for it. Yes I miss achieving 85% dr on my veng jugg in 4.0. But it was also a major nerf alongside of the ED nerf and then a mobility nerf to EP... Too many nerfs now jugg needs a slight buff.

 

Personally I'm glad they put soresu into being a tank only thing. For vigi/focus it cut your damage so you could pretend to be a tank, often trying to run a focus rather than a shield. It drove me, as an actual tank, rather insane back in the day.

 

I also was unhappy about the poor scaling of focused defense with 5.0. Obviously, however, they didn't want it to be a full second life for us.

 

Having run vigi, the leap thing is not all its cracked out to be. The issue I had running dps was pure focus. "Oh look it's that guardian, go kill it, unlike merc he'll just squish!" As you say saber reflect us supposed to be our counter to this, but it doesn't really serve thst purpose. Maybe not enough attacks commonly encountered are single target direct force, ranged, or tech attacks?

 

At any rate, it's also easy to over buff our defensives as well. Me personally, I'd rather be slightly underwhelming than eat a nerf hammer later.

Nobody cares, man.

 

It doesn't even matter that your attempts to set Rafi up as the bad guy are super-transparent...nobody cares that you had a spat with him. I seriously even doubt HE cares that much.

 

If you're going to report a post (even this one, I guess), just do it. Don't quote the thing to us, don't tell us you did it, please, just report it and move on. We don't need to know. We don't WANT to know.

 

Mannok lives under the assumption that people who don’t agree with his gibberish is either elitest or a troll then becomes instantly hositle. I gave up trying to communicate with him. He clearly comes to forums to hear himself talk and doesn’t want to discuss anything; just ignore him.

Edited January 25, 2018 by kissingaiur

guys please leave manok alone he appears to be having a stroke Edited January 25, 2018 by yellow_

Personally I'm glad they put soresu into being a tank only thing. For vigi/focus it cut your damage so you could pretend to be a tank, often trying to run a focus rather than a shield. It drove me, as an actual tank, rather insane back in the day.

 

I also was unhappy about the poor scaling of focused defense with 5.0. Obviously, however, they didn't want it to be a full second life for us.

 

Having run vigi, the leap thing is not all its cracked out to be. The issue I had running dps was pure focus. "Oh look it's that guardian, go kill it, unlike merc he'll just squish!" As you say saber reflect us supposed to be our counter to this, but it doesn't really serve thst purpose. Maybe not enough attacks commonly encountered are single target direct force, ranged, or tech attacks?

 

At any rate, it's also easy to over buff our defensives as well. Me personally, I'd rather be slightly underwhelming than eat a nerf hammer later.

 

Exactly, merc and sniper are so irritatingly OP that I wouldn't wish that on anyone else, so I am trying to keep my suggestions 'reasonable' enough. If leap was 0m again instead of 10m as a minimum along with snipers being leapable, there would be less problems with ranged focusing you. Along with any melee. It would also give some stun resistance and some damage reduction.

 

I think leap is great mainly because I used to switch to soresu whenever I thought I'd be focused, leap in, and then pop wz adrenal. It'd get me to 85% dr, and was hilarious. Admittedly we were nerfed into oblivion for no real reason by the grand warlords nerf hammer hence why everyone supports a dps jugg buff that I've seen (it's been a grand total of 4 nerfs so far in 5.0, and 1 buff then 1 major nerf to the buff).

 

Reflect must be buffed by double duration or lowered cd to 30 seconds. 10 seconds would be the best bet, but it's too much of a buff to be certain that any subsequent buffs won't push us over the edge. Reflect sucks b/c even when you use it perfectly (and know when other classes open with their burst) you still encounter people who simply wait 2 seconds while using white damage before opening on you again. (I am one of them on my mara).

Where are you getting the reduction numbers of the DCDs?

 

EP = 37.5k of fake hp + DR from passive (basically one merc attack that crit before it was nerfed, it used to hit somewhere around 45k sometimes)

ED = self explanatory (but can easily be killed despite it being popped if not enough power is allocated as that increases self heals and trauma debuff is applied to you by a tank or mara etc)

SR = your average yellow attack is between 10 - 20 k , meaning 15k, most avg players stop after 1 reflected attack

SW = Assuming your average yellow attack is 15000 damage 25% of that is 3750. Multiply that by roughly 4 or 5 during a stun and you get 15k. White damage does not get defended against during a stun (hence why stuns are so prolific)

MD = self explanatory (sometimes there is a visual/server glitch where you die even as you mad dash to dots, or it may be because its only a 100% chance and accuracy reduces it)

Leap = self explanatory

Edited January 25, 2018 by RACATW

EP = 37.5k of fake hp + DR from passive (basically one merc attack that crit before it was nerfed, it used to hit somewhere around 45k sometimes)

ED = self explanatory (but can easily be killed despite it being popped if not enough power is allocated as that increases self heals and trauma debuff is applied to you by a tank or mara etc)

SR = your average yellow attack is between 10 - 20 k , meaning 15k, most avg players stop after 1 reflected attack

SW = Assuming your average yellow attack is 15000 damage 25% of that is 3750. Multiply that by roughly 4 or 5 during a stun and you get 15k. White damage does not get defended against during a stun (hence why stuns are so prolific)

MD = self explanatory (sometimes there is a visual/server glitch where you die even as you mad dash to dots, or it may be because its only a 100% chance and accuracy reduces it)

Leap = self explanatory

c'mon dude this math is embarrassing, you have more or less just guessed at half of the values and multipliers involved and *completely* ignored the dodge chance on SW as if it's not possible to wait for white bar to use the DCD or as if saber ward *always* gets double hard stun countered (also ignored the fact you can only be stunned for a maximum of two 3rds of the duration)

 

I'm on board with buffing jugg dps mitigation a bit but you don't have to make stuff up to argue that

Edited January 25, 2018 by yellow_

c'mon dude this math is embarrassing, you have more or less just guessed at half of the values and multipliers involved and *completely* ignored the dodge chance as if it's not possible to wait for white bar to use the DCD or as if saber ward *always* gets double hard stun countered (also ignored the fact you can only be stunned for a maximum of two 3rds of the duration)

 

I'm on board with buffing jugg dps mitigation a bit but you don't have to make stuff up to argue that

 

Obviously, dodge chance isn't going to play into a stun. And let's be honest, the reason they moved dr on stun to tank is solely because that is where the dps window happens. Are you suggesting that most burst dps happens outside of a stun? B/c that isn't true.

 

Feel free to come up with an essay about it, I can't be bothered to on a forum. If I wanted to post about it seriously I would make a thread not a post 6 pages deep in a discussion about jugg. When does a jugg ever get white barred anyway? It's after they get hard stunned and burst a few times, so your argument about dodge chance is entirely pointless anyway and mainly why I didn't bother to include it.

Edited January 25, 2018 by RACATW

Obviously, dodge chance isn't going to play into a stun. And let's be honest, the reason they moved dr on stun to tank is solely because that is where the dps window happens. Are you suggesting that most burst dps happens outside of a stun? B/c that isn't true.

I am suggesting your math is mostly made up and skewed to prove a point where you could easily argue your point without inventing anything on the fly

I am suggesting your math is mostly made up and skewed to prove a point where you could easily argue your point without inventing anything on the fly

 

I strongly encourage you to do the actual math and write about the specific situations along with the most common one (where jugg gets focused immediately and hard stunned/burst). You'll find what I said is pretty accurate.

Hey at least we're back to talking about jugg defenses rather than whatever we went off on yesterday.

I strongly encourage you to do the actual math and write about the specific situations along with the most common one (where jugg gets focused immediately and hard stunned/burst). You'll find what I said is pretty accurate.

 

This is why I've said we need some kind of anti focus.

 

Focused defense is great when stunned but can be rather easily out focused. Unlike mercs people don't even bother not hitting you during it any more!

This is why I've said we need some kind of anti focus.

 

Focused defense is great when stunned but can be rather easily out focused. Unlike mercs people don't even bother not hitting you during it any more!

This is precisely why damage reduction and damage avoiding (dodge/resist) DCDs have an inherent advantage in most situations (1v1s being a notable exception) over healing and fake health DCDs. The former scale in value with the number of people attacking into them, the latter do not. ED melts and EP does whatever is even worse than melting. Evaporates....I guess.

 

And being melee just compounds that issue. I still feel the biggest boon for jugg dps would be a properly balanced merc/mara/sniper but outside of that they really need less healing and more damage reduction. Saber reflect is short and only works on some attacks and the CD on saber ward is just absurdly long relative to how not-that-good it is. I don't want to get too bogged down in specifics but an idea that I've had for a while is making that ED CD reduction utility just an immortal thing and making it reduce the CD of saber ward every time attacked for dps juggs. This would turn SW into a DCD that could be safely used as a go-to instead of one you clutch onto for the perfect moment because the CD is so long. Not very helpful in 4 dps meme solo ranked games but very helpful in regs and group ranked.

Hi All,

 

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CommunitySupport

Hi All,

 

As a general reminder on forum rules:

 

- Creating posts to simply inform others that you have reported their post is neither constructive, or on-topic, and is therefore considered inappropriate.

 

- If you'd like posts you've made removed, please report them to us at moderation with your request. We ask that you do not edit your posts to single-line responses as those posts do not add constructive content to the thread.

 

- Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.

 

As always, try to remain respectful of other forum members.

 

Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

 

Rip Mannok .

Sorry for the off-topic but couldn't help myself there .

"after reading 2 troll nerf mara threads" stopped there. ok bud.

 

Imagine thinking Marauder is balanced right now.

Edited January 26, 2018 by brishae

Hi All,

 

As a general reminder on forum rules:

 

- Creating posts to simply inform others that you have reported their post is neither constructive, or on-topic, and is therefore considered inappropriate.

 

- If you'd like posts you've made removed, please report them to us at moderation with your request. We ask that you do not edit your posts to single-line responses as those posts do not add constructive content to the thread.

 

- Keep in mind that everyone has different viewpoints. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're trolling. If you believe someone is trolling, please use the Flag function to report their post.

 

As always, try to remain respectful of other forum members.

 

Happy Posting,

CommunitySupport

 

wow did they hire some new staff, havent seen a post like this in ages

wow did they hire some new staff, havent seen a post like this in ages

 

They just changed the droids batteries 😉