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Marauder becoming an obsolete class in Onslaught, for PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Marauder becoming an obsolete class in Onslaught, for PvP

Real_FlyGonz's Avatar


Real_FlyGonz
08.19.2019 , 12:12 PM | #11
I will make one closing remark and drop the subject.

Thank you guys for your opinions and replies.

I just wanted a Dev to respond to my concerns with marauder pvp in Onslaught.

P.S. I appreciate the tooltip copy paste of marauder abilities, but it was unnecessary.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
08.19.2019 , 12:48 PM | #12
It might help if you were more specific. What are juggs getting compared to maras in onslaught that, in your opinion, makes them so wildly better? Looking at both in the PTS forum, I'm thoroughly underwhelmed by both. In fact, by all of them I've seen for every class so far. Have you played both on the PTS? I refuse to address the issue personally because I haven't.

ottffsse's Avatar


ottffsse
08.19.2019 , 02:28 PM | #13
Carnage players are basically not being compensated in playing carnage vs fury. Fury will remain a thing and it's not going away anytime soon. Anni...well that's for certain group ranked compositions, dots on melee dps can be a tricky thing.
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Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
08.19.2019 , 03:29 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Real_FlyGonz View Post
Im aware of all the awesome tools mara has, and the cool utilities it has. But again... I am talking mainly about Onslaught. Every class got huge buffs in one way or another. Mara got some more utilities.
The new marauder set bonus looks better than jugg's. The Rage and Fury tactical items are identical. The new ability is identical. Please have a look on the PTS forum because you are wrong.

Quote:
Using force camoflauge is only good if they leave you alone after it ends a few seconds later. Then the game takes like a year to make you leave combat to heal up.

I am also looking at this from a dueling standpoint, which is a huge weekness in this game. Dueling is not balanced at all, but it shows you if a class is weaker than another in a pvp 1v1 situation. Jugg will always beat a mara, unless the jugg is brain dead and doesnt know his rotation in pvp. Mara cant stealth out of a 1v1, if the opponent is even half decent.
Force camo and run far away. If you don't have the utility that extends the duration of camo, then you really need to use Predation with it.

In a 1v1, a Marauder will beat a Jugg by using all the abilities I listed in my previous post. You know you can Intimidating Roar the Jugg while ED is up, right? Barring that, you can Obfuscate him. The trick is to not attack him while ED is up.
-Beruhl
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
08.19.2019 , 08:47 PM | #15
So... I decided to correct a few things here, from a rage jugg main for 3 years (5.x) and I play fury mara (but don't like to)

So first thing is fury and rage don't share the same rotation. Next to the fact that ravage has a crit chance bonus in jugg set, ravage has little to no point on rage jugg. You could literaly take it off your bar and replace it's use with a vicious slash and you would notice no difference. Fury however requires either ravage or saber throw to auto crit bonus their furious strike. For jugg it is force scream that auto crits their furious strike, on mara force scream is nothing but a no rage filler waiting for the 30 stacks. Last thing I'm going to mention is a mara does not gain a damage bonus from the 30 stacks for raging burst, only from force crush.. why mention this? Because unlike the mara a jugg gets a damage bonus from Both force crush and enrage, which brings us to my next point.

Jugg appears to possess higher damage because every raging burst is 24k-26k (due to every raging burst following either enrage or force crush) as opposed to maras 22k-24k depending on whether they force crushed or not. Not only that but a jugg gets a 15% critical bonus over maras 10%. This is why a maras furious strike typical deals 28-30k while a jugg can hit a whopping 35k... on average. However mara have offhand damage and something called "bloody slashes" which is a lingering DoT from ravage. Jugg does not get this and is the primary reason that a rage jugg really has no use for ravage, no cd reduction, no DoT and no damage bonus outside of set bonus crit chance. Combined with "Bloody slashes" and offhand damage maras easily equal a juggs bonus 5% crit chance.

The last point I am going to make is a much shorter and simpler statement. Fury Mara is a quasi burst spec not a burst spec. Quasi burst offers more utility but less damage. The burst spec of mara is carnage and carnage damage giggles at jugg. You are trying to compare apples to oranges because you think fury mara is the burst spec. Carnage is, which means fury has less dps, meanwhile rage is the jugg burst, it is not considered "quasi" so realisticaly you need to compare burst v burst damage, and carnage is superior to rage.

[Post Edit] Until this game gains a game mode that incorperates duels as anything more than a social activity devs are under no pressure to make any changes whatsoever to balance and/or build anything around 1v1 combat.

Equeliber's Avatar


Equeliber
08.20.2019 , 02:18 AM | #16
Seterade, there is so much wrong with your post, I don't even know where to start.

First of all,

Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
Last thing I'm going to mention is a mara does not gain a damage bonus from the 30 stacks for raging burst, only from force crush.. why mention this? Because unlike the mara a jugg gets a damage bonus from Both force crush and enrage, which brings us to my next point.
When marauder gets 30 stacks, he uses Berserk which in Fury functions exactly the same way as Enrage in Rage. It does give you the same 15% damage bonus to Raging Burst (read passives, may be, just once?) and generates the same amount of rage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
Jugg appears to possess higher damage because every raging burst is 24k-26k (due to every raging burst following either enrage or force crush) - I already adressed this, it's the same for them both as opposed to maras 22k-24k depending on whether they force crushed or not. Not only that but a jugg gets a 15% critical bonus over maras 10%. This is why a maras furious strike typical deals 28-30k while a jugg can hit a whopping 35k... on average. - 5% crit damage difference is equal to 5k? Are you serious? The only reason jugg can land a 35k Furious Strike is because of Pooled Hatred utility - up to 50% (5 * 10%) more damage on the next skill from each time you are getting slowed
Another thing to add, it's marauder who has 24-26k Raging Bursts on average. Marauder has a proc after Furious strike that makes Raging burst do 15% more critical damage. Jugg doesn't have that. Jugg is the one who has 20-22k Raging bursts, The only time jugg can hit a bigger Raging Burst than a mara is again, because of Pooled Hatred utility.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
However mara have offhand damage and something called "bloody slashes" which is a lingering DoT from ravage. Jugg does not get this and is the primary reason that a rage jugg really has no use for ravage, no cd reduction, no DoT and no damage bonus outside of set bonus crit chance. Combined with "Bloody slashes" and offhand damage maras easily equal a juggs bonus 5% crit chance.
Bloody Slashes does more damage than a half of Ravage. It's much, much stronger than 5% crit chance.


Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
The last point I am going to make is a much shorter and simpler statement. Fury Mara is a quasi burst spec not a burst spec. Quasi burst offers more utility but less damage.
This is just a ridiculous statement. Quasi-burst is a mix between sustain and burst. By the words of the combat team themselves, quasi-burst spec is supposed to have more DPS that any burst spec. And after numerous balance changes last year, Fury is indeed doing more damage than Rage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
The burst spec of mara is carnage and carnage damage giggles at jugg. You are trying to compare apples to oranges because you think fury mara is the burst spec. Carnage is, which means fury has less dps, meanwhile rage is the jugg burst, it is not considered "quasi" so realisticaly you need to compare burst v burst damage, and carnage is superior to rage.
DPS =/= Burst damage. And again, quasi-burst is absolutely supposed to have more DPS than burst.

mothbanquet's Avatar


mothbanquet
08.20.2019 , 08:29 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
  • You have Obfuscate for single targets that makes them miss all their attacks.
.
Which can also be specced for 75% force/tech resist too!

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
08.20.2019 , 09:30 AM | #18
before I reply to that I'm going to go back to all the dev posts and get passive screenshots.

Like I said, if I'm wrong I always admit it. The 30 stack did change the raging burst, this doesnt chagne the fact that dps in 5.0 was balanced around DoT, Quasi and Burst in that order and each tier was seperated by a 5% max dmg to compensate for passive effects like aror penertration, trauma, sunder ect. and carnage is the burst. but I will find erics post on the balance of quasi v burst v dot

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...ht=quasi-burst

Eric outlines that the target dps of fury vs rage and carnage is 2.5%. understand I never advocated fury is weaker, I said it is easy to see "why" someone would think rage was stronger. I have seen carnage maras duel fury, I have seen the difference in 1v1 dps output and carnage is much faster and more dangerous that fury. That 2.5% dmg out put doesn't save fury from the armor penetration or sundering dmg of carnage. Jugg however doesn't have these tools and not only does he not equal carnage at all but he falls short of fury as well.

Maybe this all works differently in pve where a fury mara benefits from a carnage and jugg debiffs but I was under the impression he was talking about pvp, not pve and specificaly dueling.

[Post edit]
Quote: Originally Posted by Equeliber View Post
5% crit damage difference is equal to 5k? Are you serious? The only reason jugg can land a 35k Furious Strike is because of Pooled Hatred utility - up to 50% (5 * 10%) more damage on the next skill from each time you are getting slowed
he's talking about pvp..... it doesnt matter what happens in pve.

WAIIIT.... I just remembered... I never run pooled hatred on rage jugg in pvp. I run no pushback on leap charge and unshackling rage... bud juggs can definitely hit 35k FS and if you can't that is a you problem. It doesn't change anything, having 5k more dmg on one move doesnt change that their inferior to fury maras but yeh... that was a really odd correction you made.
you don'trun pooled hatred on rage because half your rotation has no rage cost, in fact only vicious slash, FS and um.. the 30% or less one.. its called vicious throw, been a key binder for so long Iv forgotten what abilities are called even on my main classes. also I guess force crush costs rage /shrug

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
08.20.2019 , 09:54 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Real_FlyGonz View Post
Im aware of all the awesome tools mara has, and the cool utilities it has. But again... I am talking mainly about Onslaught. Every class got huge buffs in one way or another. Mara got some more utilities.

Using force camoflauge is only good if they leave you alone after it ends a few seconds later. Then the game takes like a year to make you leave combat to heal up.

I am also looking at this from a dueling standpoint, which is a huge weekness in this game. Dueling is not balanced at all, but it shows you if a class is weaker than another in a pvp 1v1 situation. Jugg will always beat a mara, unless the jugg is brain dead and doesnt know his rotation in pvp. Mara cant stealth out of a 1v1, if the opponent is even half decent.
Totally fatuous complaints. Maras are already amazing in pvp, and several of their tacticals and set bonuses make them even better. Sorcs and sins, already much worse than maras, got much worse set bonuses and tacticals.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
08.20.2019 , 10:52 AM | #20
Sure hope so. The best class in PVP ought to be knocked down a few bars.

Other classes deserve some love, like sorcs. How BW has let the most iconic and awesome class on the game sit at the bottom of the pile for 3+ years is nothing short of a travesty.

#NerfMarauders

#BuffSorcs AKA MakeSorcsGreatAgain!
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As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.
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RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.