Berronaxftw Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In my opinion the healing provided by dark charge is absolutely pathetic:mad:.. i have a few ideas for some changes. 1). Increase the healing it provides by 300%. 2). Remove the cooldown on the effect. 3). Change it so that instead of it healing a set amount it now heals you for 3% of your maximum health. 4). Change it so that it now heals for 2% of all damage you deal for 2 seconds every 6 seconds. 5). Change the talent Swelling Shadows so that it now increases healing provided by dark charge by 150/300%. Well those are my ideas for it, some may be overpowered but i do believe they need to make one of the changes above. What's your thoughts on this idea? or do you have any ideas of your own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Im pretty sure most people consider tankasins to be OP right now which is why they just got a nerf to their harnessed darkness healing and their armor rating. SO I highly doubt they will do any of these things you suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckoneful Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It may not be stellar healing, but it's fine as it is. We aren't at a steep disadvantage or anything with how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) In my opinion the healing provided by dark charge is absolutely pathetic:mad:.. i have a few ideas for some changes. 1). Increase the healing it provides by 300%. 2). Remove the cooldown on the effect. 3). Change it so that instead of it healing a set amount it now heals you for 3% of your maximum health. 4). Change it so that it now heals for 2% of all damage you deal for 2 seconds every 6 seconds. 5). Change the talent Swelling Shadows so that it now increases healing provided by dark charge by 150/300%. Well those are my ideas for it, some may be overpowered but i do believe they need to make one of the changes above. What's your thoughts on this idea? or do you have any ideas of your own? It is already balanced just fine, but as the DTPS on a tank increases, it will continue to be a marginally less useful component of overall mitigation since the effect is static. The changes you propose are OP. The only thing that needs to be done for Dark Charge is to ensure some scaling mechanism in the near future so that it continues to grow with content (assuming BioWare's solution isn't just a 5 level cap raise every time they release a new tier of PVE difficulty). Edited January 31, 2013 by Omophorus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 In my opinion Assassin Tanks should be focused more around self healing than basic forms of mitigation, so taking a nerf in other aspects in trade for a healing buff would be great i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckoneful Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In my opinion Assassin Tanks should be focused more around self healing than basic forms of mitigation, so taking a nerf in other aspects in trade for a healing buff would be great i think Any more passive nerfing and Shadows would be useless on heavy movement fights. No, we have plenty of active mitigation to juggle now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verfallen Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Self heals are fine, however armor should be put back to original values. As it is, a deception assassin with entropic field end up within a few % of our mitigation by armor. It should still be lower than the other 2 tank classes, but 40% in full black hole is a bit underwhelming imo. But the list of buff you are suggesting tells me either you are crap at your rotation getting slow stacks of HD, or you never really played past 30. I can end fight with some 50 elites at 100% health, with no other heals than the self ones, without touching overcharge saber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 Self heals are fine, however armor should be put back to original values. As it is, a deception assassin with entropic field end up within a few % of our mitigation by armor. It should still be lower than the other 2 tank classes, but 40% in full black hole is a bit underwhelming imo. But the list of buff you are suggesting tells me either you are crap at your rotation getting slow stacks of HD, or you never really played past 30. I can end fight with some 50 elites at 100% health, with no other heals than the self ones, without touching overcharge saber. I know my rotation, i just would really like to see a sith assassin tank to be more about the self heals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastWizard Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In my opinion the healing provided by dark charge is absolutely pathetic:mad:.. i have a few ideas for some changes. 1). Increase the healing it provides by 300%. 2). Remove the cooldown on the effect. 3). Change it so that instead of it healing a set amount it now heals you for 3% of your maximum health. 4). Change it so that it now heals for 2% of all damage you deal for 2 seconds every 6 seconds. 5). Change the talent Swelling Shadows so that it now increases healing provided by dark charge by 150/300%. Well those are my ideas for it, some may be overpowered but i do believe they need to make one of the changes above. What's your thoughts on this idea? or do you have any ideas of your own? I'm an assassin and I think youve either lost your mind or you must be in the process of losing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVenizen Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 i do agree that dark charge should be a set % of health so it actually scales, however to your other ideas, noooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grallmate Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 i do agree that dark charge should be a set % of health so it actually scales, however to your other ideas, noooooooooo The problem with setting it to a % of max HP is that it lends itself to stacking max HP over mitigation to a greater extent than Harnessed Darkness already does. The other concern is that increasing the mitigation provided by Dark Charge means that mitigation will have to go down somewhere else. Given that mitigation stat budget is pretty constant for a given tier that mean dropping tree bonuses or the stance bonus to armour. Ultimately though, the biggest problem with making Assassin and Shadow survivability more active is PVP. Taking the highest DPS tank with already great survivability in DPS gear and increasing their active survivability will make them worse in what is already their most complained about (from an OP perspective) area. On a side note to the OP, suggesting that ANYTHING EVER needs a 300% buff is a great way to make yourself look foolish. 30-50% is usually about the highest buff anything gets from a skill tree. That said, tweaking Electric Execution to be 5/10/15 or 10/20/30 and also affect the healing from Dark Charge would be welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omophorus Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The problem with setting it to a % of max HP is that it lends itself to stacking max HP over mitigation to a greater extent than Harnessed Darkness already does. The other concern is that increasing the mitigation provided by Dark Charge means that mitigation will have to go down somewhere else. Given that mitigation stat budget is pretty constant for a given tier that mean dropping tree bonuses or the stance bonus to armour. Ultimately though, the biggest problem with making Assassin and Shadow survivability more active is PVP. Taking the highest DPS tank with already great survivability in DPS gear and increasing their active survivability will make them worse in what is already their most complained about (from an OP perspective) area. On a side note to the OP, suggesting that ANYTHING EVER needs a 300% buff is a great way to make yourself look foolish. 30-50% is usually about the highest buff anything gets from a skill tree. That said, tweaking Electric Execution to be 5/10/15 or 10/20/30 and also affect the healing from Dark Charge would be welcome. I agree with all of this, but one looming phantom remains... Assassin is currently extremely balanced, but the self healing is not scaling well with Ops design. At present it is not a problem, but it will become one unless there's a level cap raise and attendant buffs to self-healing each time or two that they add more PVE endgame content. If the damage taken by tanks increases too much further (especially Energy/Kinetic damage where Armor is a factor), Assassin will begin to fall behind in total mitigation because the self-healing will stop offsetting the extra damage taken in comparison to the other tanking ACs. I don't know that self-healing needs to be massively changed, but it does need to scale slightly better with gear to help offset the rising DTPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I know my rotation, i just would really like to see a sith assassin tank to be more about the self heals So basically you want us to be hit llike a truck but want to offset this by upping our self-healing? I agree that the heal from Dark Charge is becoming a joke with the damage numbers introduced in TfB HM and EC NiM(Kephess' Laser Burst for example, hitting for over 10k unshielded) and it will only get worse with new content. I wouldn't mind losing the DC-heal at all, but get a slight buff in armor again, we're already pretty spiky compared to Juggs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) The problem with setting it to a % of max HP is that it lends itself to stacking max HP over mitigation to a greater extent than Harnessed Darkness already does. The other concern is that increasing the mitigation provided by Dark Charge means that mitigation will have to go down somewhere else. Given that mitigation stat budget is pretty constant for a given tier that mean dropping tree bonuses or the stance bonus to armour. Ultimately though, the biggest problem with making Assassin and Shadow survivability more active is PVP. Taking the highest DPS tank with already great survivability in DPS gear and increasing their active survivability will make them worse in what is already their most complained about (from an OP perspective) area. Personally I agree with your statements. That's why come up with this : - Heals from Dark Charge heals for 2% of max health. - Heals from Dark Charge occurs when parrying, deflecting, resisting and shielding. No CD. With the heals being a percentage, it make the stance scale with gear, and PvE difficulty. With making the heals occuring on incoming attacks, it make the survivability from a passive skill, entierly passive. With the heals having no CD, survivability keeps linear while the number of opponents increase. With the heals being reliant on tanking mechanics, it avoids player from using Endurance only and forces them to use a minimum of Defense/Shield. In addition, it lowers suvivability of tanks using DPS gear. Edited February 1, 2013 by Altheran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 2% is too much, also no CD and working on Shielding, Resisting, Parrying and Deflecting is just straight OP. Imagine this with Force Shroud up. Let's assume 27k HP, 2% of that would be 540. Force Shroud is active for 5s, with one tick per second that's 2700 HP back over 5s + 2160 from HD-FL. Bit much, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I agree with all of this, but one looming phantom remains... Assassin is currently extremely balanced, but the self healing is not scaling well with Ops design. At present it is not a problem, but it will become one unless there's a level cap raise and attendant buffs to self-healing each time or two that they add more PVE endgame content. If the damage taken by tanks increases too much further (especially Energy/Kinetic damage where Armor is a factor), Assassin will begin to fall behind in total mitigation because the self-healing will stop offsetting the extra damage taken in comparison to the other tanking ACs. I don't know that self-healing needs to be massively changed, but it does need to scale slightly better with gear to help offset the rising DTPS. Very nice post dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 So basically you want us to be hit llike a truck but want to offset this by upping our self-healing? I agree that the heal from Dark Charge is becoming a joke with the damage numbers introduced in TfB HM and EC NiM(Kephess' Laser Burst for example, hitting for over 10k unshielded) and it will only get worse with new content. I wouldn't mind losing the DC-heal at all, but get a slight buff in armor again, we're already pretty spiky compared to Juggs. Nono i don't want us to be hit like trucks, i just think our mitigation should be more around self healing. For example look at a Blood Death Knight in wow, i know it's a completely different game but that class is very similar to a sith assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 2% is too much, also no CD and working on Shielding, Resisting, Parrying and Deflecting is just straight OP. Imagine this with Force Shroud up. Let's assume 27k HP, 2% of that would be 540. Force Shroud is active for 5s, with one tick per second that's 2700 HP back over 5s + 2160 from HD-FL. Bit much, eh? 4860 I do think it would be quite strong yes, however not OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I never played WoW or any other MMO, so comparisons won't really help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In my opinion they nerfed the sin tank totally wrong in 1.3: They should have nerfed the dmg not the survivability, it's a tank not a dps ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 In my opinion they nerfed the sin tank totally wrong in 1.3: They should have nerfed the dmg not the survivability, it's a tank not a dps ffs. The damage we do is fine. We had way too much survivability though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 The damage we do is fine. We had way too much survivability though. What should be the difference between a tank and a dps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schnopsnosn Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 What should be the difference between a tank and a dps? A SIn-tank does 700-750 DPS. A SIn-DPS does 1800-2000 DPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altheran Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) 2% is too much, also no CD and working on Shielding, Resisting, Parrying and Deflecting is just straight OP. Imagine this with Force Shroud up. Let's assume 27k HP, 2% of that would be 540. Force Shroud is active for 5s, with one tick per second that's 2700 HP back over 5s + 2160 from HD-FL. Bit much, eh? The numbers were just random. It can also be 1% or 0.5%, my point was the mechanic implied. But still, is 4860 too much ? Maybe, but that's probably not so much. That's almost the same amount of health a Sorc bubble provides. And I ask you seriously : Will a Shadow/Assassin oftenly receive 5 Force/Tech attacks at once during Force shroud, I don't think so. And even considering parrying, shielding, can a Shadow/Assassin have 27K HP without sacrifying defense and shielding ? And do not forget Trauma, as this kind of situation is unlikely to occur in PvE. Edited February 1, 2013 by Altheran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berronaxftw Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 A SIn-tank does 700-750 DPS. A SIn-DPS does 1800-2000 DPS. How does one measure dps Accurately without a damage meter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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