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Suggested Change to Bloodthirst/Inspiration to make Mara/Sent Stacking less necessary

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Suggested Change to Bloodthirst/Inspiration to make Mara/Sent Stacking less necessary

Vid-szhite's Avatar


Vid-szhite
04.26.2012 , 06:43 PM | #1
Hi, folks. As you all know, many pug raids would "ideally" like to get their hands on as many Marauders as possible these days, to the exclusion of other DPS, and say whatever you will about them being the FotM, the reason they're so widely sought after is rolling Bloodthirst. Any DPS they do on top of that is a bonus. Since the devs have been doing much to dissuade against same-class spam (same classes no longer stack Armor debuffs, one battle rez puts all others on cooldown, Mercs no longer affect each other's HSM), I propose that the following be done to Bloodthirst and Inspiration:

1) Make Bloodthirst affect the ENTIRE raid, not just the Marauder's group of 4.
2) Once Bloodthirst has been used, the raid receives a debuff that prevents them from being affected by another Bloodthirst for 5 minutes, and all other Marauders will have their Bloodthirst grayed out for the duration of this debuff so they don't waste their Fury.

The net result of this is that while having one Marauder is now much more desirable, having three or more is no longer as useful as adding a class with some other type of raid utility (armor debuff, DPS with a battle rez, etc). Since Predation/Transcendence has essentially no cooldown, they should remain unaffected.

If you think Marauders are overpowered, I don't wanna hear it. This isn't about that, this is purely about same class stacking parity - many other classes have had their stacking raid utility slashed in recent patches, but Marauders have remained the same, and I feel they have only been allowed to remain that way because Bloodthirst only affects one party. No other class rewards a raid for bringing one for each party or more, why should Marauders be any different?

Any Marauders out there who feel threatened by this proposed "nerf" should actually realize that it would increase the raid utility of a single Marauder by double or more, but just like it is no longer "necessary" to bring along a Juggernaut DPS if there is already a Juggernaut tank, it is no longer "necessary" to bring along 2-4 Marauders. This, of course, means less competition for gear, and more encouraged group diversity, which will be better for everyone in the long run. If you are your guild's sole Marauder, you will become a new celebrity, but if your entire guild rolled Marauders, the only thing the others get out of it is looking really cool and more excuses to spend their fury on Berserk.

What does everyone think? Any raid leaders want to comment?

Xanikk's Avatar


Xanikk
04.26.2012 , 11:51 PM | #2
Agreed.

Stacking one class at the expense of a balanced group should not be considered a viable strategy.

I believe that bioware will do just as you suggested eventually. The only question is when this adjustment will come.

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
04.27.2012 , 12:05 AM | #3
Actually, at least on my server, all people seem to ask for when they pug is ranged dps. When I ask why they usually respond by saying ranged take less damage and do more dps. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Although I'm totally for raid-wide bloodthirst.
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

Vid-szhite's Avatar


Vid-szhite
04.27.2012 , 02:14 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by pureeffinmetal View Post
Actually, at least on my server, all people seem to ask for when they pug is ranged dps. When I ask why they usually respond by saying ranged take less damage and do more dps. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.

Although I'm totally for raid-wide bloodthirst.
Ranged aren't even more desirable unless you're running Karagga's Palace, which seems to do its damnedest to make melee DPS a liability. Eternity Vault doesn't favor either ranged or melee (the first trash pull notwithstanding), since all the bosses have moves that hit only melee and moves that hit only ranged, or moves that affect both, but won't even make you blink unless you do your DPS by standing still from 30m away. Too bad the final boss is bugged beyond all recognition even after all the patches he's gotten, or nobody would ever have a reason to run KP.

Karagga's Palace is just the most horribly designed operation ever. The bosses are all extremely punishing to melee DPS, and all the boss fights require different numbers of tanks. Thank God for EC's normal mode dropping Rakata, since I heard nothing but good things about its design.

pureeffinmetal's Avatar


pureeffinmetal
04.27.2012 , 03:06 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Vid-szhite View Post
Ranged aren't even more desirable unless you're running Karagga's Palace, which seems to do its damnedest to make melee DPS a liability. Eternity Vault doesn't favor either ranged or melee (the first trash pull notwithstanding), since all the bosses have moves that hit only melee and moves that hit only ranged, or moves that affect both, but won't even make you blink unless you do your DPS by standing still from 30m away. Too bad the final boss is bugged beyond all recognition even after all the patches he's gotten, or nobody would ever have a reason to run KP.

Karagga's Palace is just the most horribly designed operation ever. The bosses are all extremely punishing to melee DPS, and all the boss fights require different numbers of tanks. Thank God for EC's normal mode dropping Rakata, since I heard nothing but good things about its design.
You don't have to convince me. We like to keep ourselves as even as possible between ranged and melee.

With the exception of our Sorc Healers though. They'd prefer the whole raid was in melee range so they could just drop circles and go AFK
Fallschirmjager
Lightning Sorcerer
<Rapture>
The Shadowlands (Formerly Shadow Hand)

dragonfor's Avatar


dragonfor
04.27.2012 , 09:06 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Vid-szhite View Post
Ranged aren't even more desirable unless you're running Karagga's Palace, which seems to do its damnedest to make melee DPS a liability. Eternity Vault doesn't favor either ranged or melee (the first trash pull notwithstanding), since all the bosses have moves that hit only melee and moves that hit only ranged, or moves that affect both, but won't even make you blink unless you do your DPS by standing still from 30m away. Too bad the final boss is bugged beyond all recognition even after all the patches he's gotten, or nobody would ever have a reason to run KP.

Karagga's Palace is just the most horribly designed operation ever. The bosses are all extremely punishing to melee DPS, and all the boss fights require different numbers of tanks. Thank God for EC's normal mode dropping Rakata, since I heard nothing but good things about its design.
It's posts like this that make me scratch my head.
1st boss of KP is worse for ranged than it is for melee since we can just move through his legs.
2nd boss I only move when probe comes out, otherwise I stay on Sorno.
3rd boss I can Force Charge from boss to adds and back. Ranged are the ones who have to keep moving for rock throws.
4th, I just stand there and whack away at the occasional stun droid.
And for Karagga himself, I occasionally strafe to the right as the tank moves him to adjust for fire on the ground.


How does any of this sound like "extremely punishing for melee"?

Cinemayor's Avatar


Cinemayor
04.27.2012 , 10:55 AM | #7
As a Sent I would absolutely LOVE Inspiration to be raid-wide - shifting the groups around so I'm stacked with the other dps is ok, but it would be nice for the healers to get the boost as well (it would also stop the tanks tearing their hair out trying to keep threat from mad Sentinels and Gunslingers popping all their cooldowns and spamming takedown skills).

Class stacking isn't a problem for my guild since I'm the only Sentinel (hooray!) who raids regularly. Our other regular dps being a Gunslinger, Commando and Sage, so we're pretty well balanced.

As for fights being melee unfriendly, I've not really noticed this too much - once you've worked the correct tactics out there's nearly always something useful you can be doing. Survivability is fine for me, in most wipes I'm amongst the last to die. Positioning and timing is all you need (and some ****** healers help).

There are some fights I prefer to others - I absolutely adore Jarg and Sorno, Infernal Council and the tanks from EC whereas a little bit of me dies every time I see that goddam Rancor (he's not TOO bad but trying to work out which of the 3 or 4 melee he's decided to attack can be a pain - it also makes it all the more depressing when one of the ranged manages to get swiped into the acid while the melee are getting it spot on :P).

Beron's Avatar


Beron
04.27.2012 , 01:51 PM | #8
Erf... there is no need of stacking marauders. Range DDs in most if not all encounters are far superior to melee DDs. The only reason to bring more than one melee DD in a fight is the bloodthirst buff, nerfing that buff you can just remove the whole class from the game. No need to bring in a gimpy melee dd, when a range dd just stays out of aoe range or doesnt get pushed back all the time etc.

Also whats wrong with having bloodthirst buffed 2-3 times in a boss fight? You really think thats superior? What about the snipers shield? It reduced damage for everyone under his shield and also if you have 2 or 3 snipers in your group you could just keep it up 24/7. But thats not op, but having bloodthirst 2-3 times within 5 mintues is op? year right....

and the earth is a disc.

Macroecon's Avatar


Macroecon
04.27.2012 , 09:20 PM | #9
To the OP: and what do you think is going to happen with the current rules base in ranked wz with ops groups that come in with 4-5 Mara/Sents? I'll tell you what - chain casting Frenzy/Bloodlust/Predation so that the entire team was the effect of a red pvp powerup for 60-75 seconds. Game over. No opposing team can run away for 60-75 seconds. SWtoR has barely seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to Mara/Sent power. Once the Mara/Sent player base learns how to properly utilize the tools available to them, the QQs will really start.

drosalion's Avatar


drosalion
06.27.2012 , 01:10 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Xanikk View Post
Agreed.

Stacking one class at the expense of a balanced group should not be considered a viable strategy.

I believe that bioware will do just as you suggested eventually. The only question is when this adjustment will come.
I'd have to disagree to a small extent - I feel that stacking one class should be a viable strategy... what it shouldnt be is an ideal one.