When you get to the point where you have an opportunity to improve your gear and instead of gameplay it's just clicking a button for an RNG result that's BAD GAME DESIGN. That's my view on that.

 

This time around, Bioware gave us more than one path to gear. You have the choice to rely completely on RNG or you can speed the process up by using credits. Obviously, you have a problem with this current system. I, on the other hand, do not. Bioware doesn't just have one customer.

 

It's not impatience but rather there's nothing else to do. 6.0 offered hardly any new content to the game. Gearing up is easier and faster, just more expensive. And that's why it encourages people to find alternative means to get credits. Even if it were impatience, it's something that BW would know about and in that case when they implement such systems they are to blame for enabling this behaviour.

Why am I here playing this game if there is nothing to do? If I really felt that way, why not farm if I'm going to play the game anyway? I have never gotten to the point where I said, "Well ... I've done everything there is to do in this game ... I guess I'll go buy credits from a gold-spammer."

 

As far as I'm concerned they're just attempting to push CM sales and are miffed that a lot of people are getting their credits elsewhere. As if CM prices are so affordable for the larger player base. So before BW stats pointing the finger at those players, they should take a good look at themselves. They're enabling and encouraging people to go find means outside of the game (and yes I see the CM also as external to the game even though it's integrated). And well they have a monopoly in essence and so they're upset that there are others out there that break their monopoly.

How many reports, complaints, etc... do you think they get each day regarding credit spammers by annoyed customers? I'm guessing it's pretty high. So, unlike you, I'm not going to discount that as a factor of why they are doing something.

 

As I stated previously, they have every right to be upset at lawbreaking parasites that are making their product less appealing by spamming and botting. These are not legitimate companies. They are criminal organizations raising funds for other criminal activities. There's no monopoly because there are other MMOs out there competing legitimately with this game for customers. Those other MMOs have to deal with the same criminal parasites.

 

So really, I'm against credit sellers but as long as BW keeps pushing this, I get why a number of players do succumb to the temptation. RNG is gambling at some point. And when the game doesn't provide enough credits unless you grind your brains out to be able to get your fix, then it involves real money to bypass that grind. That's exactly what they want. Except they don't get people with addictive personalities. And when they can't afford CM prices this will easily drive them to alternatives.

 

So my message to BW is simply this: stop making gearing about RNG and credit sinks or people will continue to go to these credit sellers. Your choice.

Honestly, you are making it seem so hard to earn credits in this game. It's actually laughable. If you know where to go and what certain things sell for, there are loot drops that are fairly easy to get that sell quickly for significant credits. At lvl 75, a player makes over 20K credits for most missions and almost that much for each bonus objective. when your inventory gets full, you can sell all gray quality items for anywhere from 20K-80K. On top of that you can vendor loot or sell it on the GTN if it has significantly more value there. You can craft items currently in demand. During double XP events almost everything (loot gear) sells quicjly and easily. There are still open world heroic areas where mobs drop high amounts of credits that can be farmed if you choose. There's slicing if your into that and that can also farm conquest points. There's conquest whih rewards you on top of doin the things you were going to do anyway. There's flipping things on the GTN (the easiest way to make large sums of credits with little effort). The list is long.

 

Please lets stop pretending it's hard to get credits (as a sub). People are just lazy. If you're not going to play the game to be rewarded in the game, then why even play the game in the first place?

This time around, Bioware gave us more than one path to gear. You have the choice to rely completely on RNG or you can speed the process up by using credits. Obviously, you have a problem with this current system. I, on the other hand, do not. Bioware doesn't just have one customer.

I have a problem with how it works. You cannot avoid RNG. That's the problem I have with it. And of course I realise I'm not the only customer. I only represent myself.

Why am I here playing this game if there is nothing to do? If I really felt that way, why not farm if I'm going to play the game anyway? I have never gotten to the point where I said, "Well ... I've done everything there is to do in this game ... I guess I'll go buy credits from a gold-spammer."

You really do not understand what I'm saying. First of all I also never got to the point where I said that there's nothing left in the game. I have gotten to the point however where there's nothing left I want to do. Very few people actually want to do EVERYTHING in a game.

And you really tick me off with that last part. I never said that. The point is that you want to buy off the grind and boredom because that's what it takes to get lots of credits.

How many reports, complaints, etc... do you think they get each day regarding credit spammers by annoyed customers? I'm guessing it's pretty high. So, unlike you, I'm not going to discount that as a factor of why they are doing something.

That's an assumption on your part. I'm not prepared to make that assumption because I'm sure they get some reports but I do not believe it's as many as you believe. Also the players that use credit sellers are not the same as the ones complaining about it. So for Keith to come here and throw them on the same heap is not right. He's basically telling the people who complain about it to stop using them. Well, I think that's targeting the wrong crowd. All I get from Keith is "credit sellers are cutting into our CM sales, please stop using them cause it's bad, mmkay". Not that convincing to me. If he really means what he says then BW should start acting like it, do their part, and not target the wrong crowd with accusations. That's my view on that.

As I stated previously, they have every right to be upset at lawbreaking parasites that are making their product less appealing by spamming and botting. These are not legitimate companies. They are criminal organizations raising funds for other criminal activities. There's no monopoly because there are other MMOs out there competing legitimately with this game for customers. Those other MMOs have to deal with the same criminal parasites.

Sure, they have the right but they should also not enable and encourage the player base to go to them. And ask yourself this, if they were not legitimate then why are they in business in plain sight? Some of them for many years. I wondered about this myself and I think they're not as illegal as you might think. That's why game companies probably only (loosely apparently) enforce it on their end. But hey that's just me right?

Honestly, you are making it seem so hard to earn credits in this game. It's actually laughable. If you know where to go and what certain things sell for, there are loot drops that are fairly easy to get that sell quickly for significant credits. At lvl 75, a player makes over 20K credits for most missions and almost that much for each bonus objective. when your inventory gets full, you can sell all gray quality items for anywhere from 20K-80K. On top of that you can vendor loot or sell it on the GTN if it has significantly more value there. You can craft items currently in demand. During double XP events almost everything (loot gear) sells quicjly and easily. There are still open world heroic areas where mobs drop high amounts of credits that can be farmed if you choose. There's slicing if your into that and that can also farm conquest points. There's conquest whih rewards you on top of doin the things you were going to do anyway. There's flipping things on the GTN (the easiest way to make large sums of credits with little effort). The list is long.

No I'm not saying it's hard to make credits in this game...can you please pay attention. I am saying that they are not fun and grindy and not everybody likes playing the GTN. So you have to do things to make credits in this game that a lot of people simply do NOT LIKE DOING. And then it's still easy but not fun. And again if everybody started flipping the GTN then there would be no profit in it. So IT'S NOT A SOLUTION FOR EVERYONE. That only works as long as just a few people are doing it. The only thing that everybody can do is grind credits day in day out, but even that will cause inflation so the value of those credits will become less.

Please lets stop pretending it's hard to get credits (as a sub). People are just lazy. If you're not going to play the game to be rewarded in the game, then why even play the game in the first place?

Not lazy, stop being pedantic. It's easy but not fun for most people.

 

And the irony of your last point is very strong because the game isn't rewarding. Credits are a means to an end and the end is the reward. That's why it bores the crap out of me. Again I'm not saying it's hard, it's FRIKKIN BORING.

 

I hope this time you actually read what I write instead of misinterpreting everything again. If you do that again, I'll stop discussing this with you because you keep twisting my words to suit your needs apparently.

 

Again I'm not saying it's hard to make credits. It's frakkin boring. And if all people did any of the solutions you offer they would stop working because of how economy works. Either it will lower prices on the GTN to the point where it's not interesting anymore or the inflation will be so big that credits are even more worthless than they already are.

That's an assumption on your part. I'm not prepared to make that assumption because I'm sure they get some reports but I do not believe it's as many as you believe. Also the players that use credit sellers are not the same as the ones complaining about it. So for Keith to come here and throw them on the same heap is not right. He's basically telling the people who complain about it to stop using them. Well, I think that's targeting the wrong crowd. All I get from Keith is "credit sellers are cutting into our CM sales, please stop using them cause it's bad, mmkay". Not that convincing to me. If he really means what he says then BW should start acting like it, do their part, and not target the wrong crowd with accusations. That's my view on that.

So you're not going to give credence to my "assumption" because you believe it to be an assumption but are going to make a much larger assumption yourself.

 

Sure, they have the right but they should also not enable and encourage the player base to go to them. And ask yourself this, if they were not legitimate then why are they in business in plain sight? Some of them for many years. I wondered about this myself and I think they're not as illegal as you might think. That's why game companies probably only (loosely apparently) enforce it on their end. But hey that's just me right?

 

Business in plain sight (Russia / China) --- exactly how can Bioware enforce the law here?

 

Also, you claim players are "encouraged to go to" these sellers. That's just bull. They are encouraged to play the game. They choose the easy way out.

 

And if all people did any of the solutions you offer they would stop working because of how economy works. Either it will lower prices on the GTN to the point where it's not interesting anymore or the inflation will be so big that credits are even more worthless than they already are.

The trick to a game economy is being able to adapt. Things that are profitable now, may not be profitable later, but there will always be a demand to have things. As you stated, not everybody enjoys that aspect (working to get credits) so as long as those people are around, there will be some demand created and less supply.

 

If inflation increased greatly, then the credit costs to gear would not be as awful as they seem to you now.

 

 

We're discussing one of many issues in this game Bioware has to decide to confront. Besides the credit seller problem this thread is about, players also routinely complain on these forums about inflation within the game economy. So occasionally, Bioware combats this with credit sinks and/ or item nerfing. I mean, all these things are related. Not every player likes credit sinks. I didn't at first, but I see now why they are necessary.

Edited August 24, 2020 by BRKMSN

Dear Keith,

 

thanks for the good news and also thank you for your eternal combat against the ToS offenders!

 

To add to the discussion that has been going on here I would like to state some things. Yes, the main issue is that the game does not sell credits directly, but in the for of the Cartel Market. You use your CC or buy your CC to purchase some item and then sell it on the GTN. This is the only legal way to turn real world money into credits. The thing here is that people mostly try to earn CC in many other ways, like refferals, rewards on streams, PVP tournaments etc. I myself have earned tens of thousands of CC just from the refferal program and can buy many things on the GTN and thereby earn credits for free basically. This is one issue that some have to pay 20-80 euro to get CC while many get it for free.

 

Still the prices on GTN and constantly on the move and as people said you are better off buying from credit sellers than from Bioware. Therefore if Bioware would sell credits I really believe this all would go away. It would also be a great business for Bioware as many many players playing this game do have the money and would be willing to buy credits for many ingame things. Thats just my opinion.

Dear Keith,

 

thanks for the good news and also thank you for your eternal combat against the ToS offenders!

 

To add to the discussion that has been going on here I would like to state some things. Yes, the main issue is that the game does not sell credits directly, but in the for of the Cartel Market. You use your CC or buy your CC to purchase some item and then sell it on the GTN. This is the only legal way to turn real world money into credits. The thing here is that people mostly try to earn CC in many other ways, like refferals, rewards on streams, PVP tournaments etc. I myself have earned tens of thousands of CC just from the refferal program and can buy many things on the GTN and thereby earn credits for free basically. This is one issue that some have to pay 20-80 euro to get CC while many get it for free.

 

Still the prices on GTN and constantly on the move and as people said you are better off buying from credit sellers than from Bioware. Therefore if Bioware would sell credits I really believe this all would go away. It would also be a great business for Bioware as many many players playing this game do have the money and would be willing to buy credits for many ingame things. Thats just my opinion.

 

Bioware DOES NOT need to sell credits directly - too many credits in game is the problem, selling them directly won't solve that problem, it would just be like throwing fuel on the fire.

 

For starters, Bioware needs to do a hard reset on the referral program and start over - this time only providing rewards to players who actually bring in a new player, not rewarding those that spam 'click my link' in-game or make the forums look like trash with all the 'click my links' in signatures.

 

Then they can look at improving the balance between credit inflows and sinks, with a focus on reducing the one time or up-front sinks for better over-time sinks, as well as reducing or eliminating any kind of unlimited repeatable method for creating credits along with better bot detection and suppression.

 

Lastly they could look at adding a new store of value (SWTOR Tokens) that would allow player A to 'sell' credits to player B in exchange for 'credit' in the CM / Bioware (such as sub time) through some sort of intermediate currency (one that can only be bought with RL$ and which can only be redeemed for in-game store credit / game time).

Edited August 24, 2020 by DawnAskham

 

For starters, Bioware needs to do a hard reset on the referral program and start over - this time only providing rewards to players who actually bring in a new player, not rewarding those that spam 'click my link' in-game or make the forums look like trash with all the 'click my links' in signatures.

 

Yes, reset, no to cc's from referrals. If they left it like it was before, we'd have less of the issues we have now.

But the fact they've implemented cc's for refs, can they reverse.

 

As for making the forums look like trash, there are far worse things in here that make the forum look like trash.

 

 

Then they can look at improving the balance between credit inflows and sinks, with a focus on reducing the one time or up-front sinks for better over-time sinks, as well as reducing or eliminating any kind of unlimited repeatable method for creating credits along with better bot detection and suppression.

 

 

The problem with any credit sink is, it will effect all players, not just the rich, look at the amp credit sink for example, so many people have been ******* over it, we've all the threads to see it.

"unlimited repeatable method" not sure what this is, if you mean exploits, I think they are always looking for ways to stop that.

 

Lastly they could look at adding a new store of value (SWTOR Tokens) that would allow player A to 'sell' credits to player B in exchange for 'credit' in the CM / Bioware (such as sub time) through some sort of intermediate currency (one that can only be bought with RL$ and which can only be redeemed for in-game store credit / game time).

 

I can't see this working, it just seems overly complicated and easily open to abuse. Don't get me wrong, if I could change credits for sub time, I'd do it, so would many others, even if it meant others were using RL cash to get the tokens.

 

 

 

Why not do what WoW does and implement a subscription token of which the in game sell price is controlled by the game? I mean you can basically buy credits with anything on the CM, but that requires you to hold onto the item for a few days. The subscription token could easily cut out a lot of the RMT's.

 

 

 

 

 

Why not do what WoW does and implement a subscription token of which the in game sell price is controlled by the game? I mean you can basically buy credits with anything on the CM, but that requires you to hold onto the item for a few days. The subscription token could easily cut out a lot of the RMT's.

 

How would it work, is the token bought with cartel coins or real cash? If it was cartel coins, I could see them losing a lot from subs. There are people here with 30K plus CC's, so they'd basically have months, if not years free subs. Plus with all the refs going around, and all the free cc's in the game, I can see them taking a hit on sub funds.

How would it work, is the token bought with cartel coins or real cash? If it was cartel coins, I could see them losing a lot from subs. There are people here with 30K plus CC's, so they'd basically have months, if not years free subs. Plus with all the refs going around, and all the free cc's in the game, I can see them taking a hit on sub funds.

 

Real world money - as in a player buying a 'token' as a means to get credits would pay $20 (or whatever) to Bioware.

 

It would never be in CC - CC are as worthless as credits to Bioware.

Real world money - as in a player buying a 'token' as a means to get credits would pay $20 (or whatever) to Bioware.

 

It would never be in CC - CC are as worthless as credits to Bioware.

 

So people would buy them for real money and put them on the gtn? Or sell them to people?

Or even just use them as gifts?

So people would buy them for real money and put them on the gtn? Or sell them to people?

Or even just use them as gifts?

 

Yes, that’s how it works in Wow

Yes, that’s how it works in Wow

 

So BW still get the same sub money, but subs can use credits instead? I like that sound of that, i could use my excess credits and get my other accounts to a sub standard, as well as the family, wouldn't cost me anything extra.

How would it work, is the token bought with cartel coins or real cash? If it was cartel coins, I could see them losing a lot from subs. There are people here with 30K plus CC's, so they'd basically have months, if not years free subs. Plus with all the refs going around, and all the free cc's in the game, I can see them taking a hit on sub funds.

 

The WoW tokens are $20. You buy them with real money and sell them for gold on the auction house. How much gold you can sell it for is completely controlled by Blizzard. I think its a cool idea imo. Players can get a subscription with gold if they put the time in to farm and Blizzard gets basically a subscriber for more money than an actual subscription and the other player gets some gold out of it.

 

Back when I played it was like 30k gold, but a buddy of mine who still plays says it hovers around 110k-120k gold atm.

Deleted Edited April 15, 2021 by Devolvio

The WoW tokens are $20. You buy them with real money and sell them for gold on the auction house. How much gold you can sell it for is completely controlled by Blizzard. I think its a cool idea imo. Players can get a subscription with gold if they put the time in to farm and Blizzard gets basically a subscriber for more money than an actual subscription and the other player gets some gold out of it.

 

Back when I played it was like 30k gold, but a buddy of mine who still plays says it hovers around 110k-120k gold atm.

 

I like the sound of that, not sure if they'd ever do it though.

100 dollar deposit in order to play the game, refundable when you close your account. If you are banned or caught botting, spamming chat, or any other serious infringement, the $100 is forfeit.

 

Easy solution.

 

Hand wringing and trying to squish f2p credit spammers is an endless game of whack-a-rat.

100 dollar deposit in order to play the game, refundable when you close your account. If you are banned or caught botting, spamming chat, or any other serious infringement, the $100 is forfeit.

 

Easy solution.

 

Hand wringing and trying to squish f2p credit spammers is an endless game of whack-a-rat.

I think you overestimate how many people have a 100 dollars to spare. The only way to make credit sellers go away is to make credits less valuable.

 

It means taking away things like the amplifier progressive credit sink, making CM items bind on legacy so they can't be sold for credits and lowering the CM prices so that more people can afford them. Those things will make credits less valuable and people will be able to make credits to match to cost of playing the game (travel costs, legacy perks, ripping mods, repair costs, etc) easily affordable for players. And that takes the focus off credits to the point where hardly any players will even want to consider credit sellers.

 

Just think of it...what do a billion credits mean or even 100 million credits when there's no CM items on the GTN anymore? That's the main culprit for creating a market for credit sellers right there.

So this post is basicly, "Don't buy from credit sellers, BUY FROM US" post.

 

DIng Ding Ding Winner!!!

Let's be honest about the problem: Credit sellers exist because SWTOR, via money laundering, is pay-to-win.

 

$ > CC > GTN > Creds > Max iR Augs ia a money laundering loop, and is the problem.

 

Sabotaged quality of life, which ransoms us with pay-not-to-wait transactions, is the problem.

 

Monetized crafting, via purchasable companion levels, is the problem.

 

Some truth for the trolls: Secondary grinds for anything cash-purchasable aren't game design; they're burdens structured to incentivize financial transactions. The presence of these secondary grinds does nothing to erase the presence of pay-to-win systems.

 

For those who say we don't need to make these purchases, it's true, they're not very aggressively tuned. That's not the point. The point is we're being groomed to accept their presence. The presence of monetized consumables and gambling products, on top of a subscription, is further proof of bad faith.

 

For (at minimum) $155.88, year over year, subscribers deserve not to have their game mechanics further monetized with money laundering loops. The current state of affairs is offensive.

 

I want the 'PREMUIM' experience advertised.

Edited September 26, 2020 by FlatTax

No offence Bioware but your attempt apparently backfired.

 

There is 2x if not 3x the amount of spam in General Fleet from Gold Sellers then there ever was. I'm reporting and ignoring them but it's pathetic that I have to do it over and over and over. What's worse is when I log onto an alt, I have to do it all over again.

 

I'm also getting in game mail spam. Something I hadn't seen in ages now is showing up on all my toons.

 

Just log on live and ban them. Stop trying to create some alogrific program that does the job for you. They will just work around it.

Congrats ! I've definitely noticed a sharp drop in "DEAR FRIEND," messages lately (I reroll a LOT so starter planets are my home)

 

I will start reporting again then, but PLEASE m:ake it a ONE CLICK THING or AT LEAST put the confirmation box exactly where the report button is... no need to travel through half the screen to confirm.

Cause lately I just put them on ignore...

Edited September 27, 2020 by BenduKundalini

I was just talking to my buddy today about swtor not having wow token/kronos (from EQ) cause I wanted to give my friend 1 month sub so he could get better perks when it ended than a f2p account. Would of just been easier to be like here click this you got 1 month sub time. If they were around 15-20$ I would probably buy a bunch take sell for credits cause sometimes you lose big on hypercrates, sometimes you win big too but thats why theyre so addicting lol.

I was just talking to my buddy today about swtor not having wow token/kronos (from EQ) cause I wanted to give my friend 1 month sub so he could get better perks when it ended than a f2p account. Would of just been easier to be like here click this you got 1 month sub time. If they were around 15-20$ I would probably buy a bunch take sell for credits cause sometimes you lose big on hypercrates, sometimes you win big too but thats why theyre so addicting lol.

 

The presence of gambling products definitely contributes to the credit seller problem, too. :/

last week Tuesday i got a spam message from a credit seller in mail, I decided to not only delete it and ignore the character as I usually do but actually report it, today I got an identical mail from the same character advertising credits from the same site again

 

if you are gonna post something as this I hope you actually start doing something about it

if you are gonna post something as this I hope you actually start doing something about it

 

The spammers aren't the real problem. EA/BW brought it upon themselves by monetizing endgame gearing and numerous mechanics, even for subscribers.

 

For $155.88, year over year, we deserve an actually "PREMIUM" (all-caps theirs, not mine) service, with subscriber game mechanics de-monetized.

Edited October 5, 2020 by FlatTax