This is something that's been long requested, and long ignored by Bioware, but there have been murmurs of assent over the past couple months, so since the game is pretty much launched now, it's time to get some info on what's next, namely, when is the Appearance Tab going in?

 

To clarify for those that haven't been following along, I'm referring to a better way for allowing players to easily customize their appearance, retaining those that they like over those that they do not like, but that are attached to better stats.

 

The mod system, in theory, could provide a partial solution to this, but in practice it's far from efficient enough, as it involves discarding the existing loot/armor mechanics entirely and seeking out extremely rare "orange" versions of gear, which is far more hassle than is justifiable for a simple appearance modification system that other games offer automatically.

 

This would not be a system designed to "trick" people, it would not necessarily allow players any more appearance options than they currently have access to, it would just make it more convenient to change outfits while retaining optimal stats. For example, it would not necessarily allow you to have the appearance of light armor while also having the stats of heavy armor. They could do it that way, but wouldn't have to, as the appearance could be type-restricted (ie only heavy armor appearances while wearing heavy armor). It also wouldn't circumvent "gear progression", as the appearances available would be tied to what you've already accumulated, so at level 15 you'd be able to have any of the looks you've acquired from level 1-15, but wouldn't be able to choose the appearance of a level 20 armor until you'd actually earned it.

 

As for mechanics, there are two dominate models at play, the appearance tab and appearance slots. The tab would be similar to DCUO, a system in which there is a separate UI menu devoted to character appearance, from which you can pick the style of each gear slot from some sort of drop-down list, the contents of the list being unlocked as you equip each piece. In this system, if by level 15 you've picked up and worn Glove A, Glove B, Glove D, and Glove G, then you could open the menu and freely choose which of those you wanted to display at any given time, but could not display gloves C, E, F, or H+, since you had not yet acquired these.

 

This system would be the most convenient and easiest to use, but would require some significant UI work to make it function.

 

The slightly simpler system would be "appearance slots", a set of slots on the paper doll, parallel to the existing ones, in which you can physically place gear. The gear placed into these slots, if any, would override the appearance of the gear placed in the existing "stat" gear slots. This means that if you have Glove C in the stat slot, because it gives great stats, and you have Glove A in the appearance slot, then you get the best of both. The UI changes should be lighter for this one, just a slight modification to the paper doll screen that should take no more than a few man-hours of Photoshopping and a little bit of code to link them up.

 

Either system would work just fine, but they aren't the only options available. Any system they do come up with would need to meet the following condition though:

 

Players A and B are both level 15, and have identical level 13 armor. Players A and B both receive identical level 15 armor that is mechanically superior to their current armor. Player A either enjoys the appearance of the new armor, or does not care, and throws it on immediately. Player B prefers the appearance of the old armor, but wants to gain the new mechanical stats of the new armor.

 

Any system that proposes to be a solution to the lack of an appearance tab needs to be one that solves that scenario in such a way that Player B is not significantly put out relative to Player A. It would need to mean that he would be able to have the appearance of the old armor with the stats of the new armor, and not have had to spend a significant amount of time, credits, or other losses to achieve that effect.

Imho, I find the way I look very important, but I actually like the fact that if you want a specific appearance, you need to work for it, rather than a drag and drop approach.

 

Just my 2 cents

Don't need an appearance tab, the way the crafting system works.

I actually like the way the crafting system will let you make any appearance pretty much, but you might need to work incredibly hard to create that "perfect" look. It's a lot better than the mess that transmogrify is.

Agree with OP 100%

I get that some people are fine with the way the system currently works, and that's ok. If they implement a superior appearance system then you can continue to do things exactly as you can now, nobody's talking about removing anything, just adding on top of whatever's there.

 

This is just for people that aren't satisfied with the current system, those that have had to put away appearances that they liked in favor of ones with better stats that they haven't liked as much, and do not feel that they should be put at a mechanical disadvantage behind players that do not care about their appearance.

I get that some people are fine with the way the system currently works, and that's ok. If they implement a superior appearance system then you can continue to do things exactly as you can now, nobody's talking about removing anything, just adding on top of whatever's there.

 

This is just for people that aren't satisfied with the current system, those that have had to put away appearances that they liked in favor of ones with better stats that they haven't liked as much, and do not feel that they should be put at a mechanical disadvantage behind players that do not care about their appearance.

 

Implementing an appearance tab, hurts the crafting community. You will be able to get any look you want, and keep stats in line.

Every style of armor is available as Orange, customizable gear.

 

Yes 4 days before launch you may not get your look, but a few months in once the patterns become readily available the crafters will be kicking out the items people want.

 

This current system is the best of both worlds, it makes crafting useful, there will be demand for the things they make and it lets people pick how their characters gear looks.

 

Yes, you'll have to wait a bit for the economy in the game to get into swing. But in the end, I think this will be a great system for all involved.

Edited December 16, 2011 by GawdoOo

A lot of people throw the "I'm not proposing removing anything, you don't have to use it if you don't want to" argument around.

 

The problem with that reasoning is that this is not a single player game and any change you add will affect all players regardless of whether they are interested in the new feature or not.

 

Personally I do not want anything like the WoW/DCUO appearance tab functionality. The current crafting implementation achieves the same results but also has a feeling of acomplishment to it.

This is just for people that aren't satisfied with the current system, those that have had to put away appearances that they liked in favor of ones with better stats that they haven't liked as much, and do not feel that they should be put at a mechanical disadvantage behind players that do not care about their appearance.

 

What are you talking about? Every appearance in the game has a corresponding orange item. Just mod it with raid mods and you can wear it forever. The game doesn't need an appearance tab as it basically has one already.

there is no need for an appearance tab due to mod items

Implementing an appearance tab, hurts the crafting community. You will be able to get any look you want, and keep stats in line.

Every style of armor is available as Orange, customizable gear.

 

Yes 4 days before launch you may not get your look, but a few months in once the patterns become readily available the crafters will be kicking out the items people want.

 

This current system is the best of both worlds, it makes crafting useful, there will be demand for the things they make and it lets people pick how their characters gear looks.

 

Yes, you'll have to wait a bit for the economy in the game to get into swing. But in the end, I think this will be a great system for all involved.

 

Wrong. I have played in the beta for a long while now, and the statement that every style of armor has an orange is dead wrong. ANd it changes nothing for crafting, you still need mods with or with out the A-TAB.

 

For those that have no idea what an A-TAB is.

 

An Appearance Tab is an interface not unlike the current equipment window used in-game. The only difference is that items equipped to this window do not give you any stats, but instead overwrite the appearance of items equipped in your normal equipment window with their own. Equipping X pants to your equipment window while equipping Y pants to your Appearance Tab, for example, will give you the stats of the X pants, but the appearance of the Y pants on your character.

 

Because the Tab functions just like the normal equipment window, any items you wish to use the appearances of must currently be owned by your character, and your character must meet the level, class, LS/DS, and armor/weapon type requirements to use them in the Tab. It is just as impossible for a level 10 jedi to wear a full set of trooper armor in their Tab as it is for them to wear it in their normal equipment window.

 

The feature is automatically unlocked somewhere around the 10-20 level range, to give new players time to get used to using the normal equipment window before interacting with the very similar Appearance Tab interface, but still gaining access early enough to know that they should start hanging onto any items they might want to wear in the Tab later on.

 

This is exactly what is being used in EQ2 and the most popular version of the A-Tab.

It would work great with this game.

Edited December 16, 2011 by crossbones

Don't need an appearance tab, the way the crafting system works.

 

Exactly. The system we have makes sense and fits with the lore of the game. An 'appearance tab' does not.

Wrong. I have played in the beta for a long while now, and the statement that every style of armor has an orange is dead wrong. ANd it changes nothing for crafting, you still need mods with or with out the A-TAB.

 

This cannot be ascertained one way or another yet, as the majority of the oranges come from rare 'drops' via underworld schematics.

yhea i am personally saving up for the pilots suit on the republic fleet starship vendor, i will gladly stick my mods in that, i just wish it was orange instead of red.

Implementing an appearance tab, hurts the crafting community. You will be able to get any look you want, and keep stats in line.

 

If it does hurt the crafting community, it would only be if the current crafting model is poorly designed. Crafters should not NEED what an appearance tab would offer to be viable. Crafters should be viable because players want the mechanical benefits of the gear they produce, not because, while they already have better gear, they need the crafter version so they can tie those stats to the appearance they want. Crafters should be viable because they give more options for customizing gear than the drop tables produces. Crafters should be viable because they can produce unique gear with appearances and stat combinations that cannot be found anywhere else, not so that they can provide you a more customizable version of gear you already have.

 

Do crafters benefit from the current system? Sure, but not in any way that they deserve. Their benefit comes at the consumer's cost and that's not fair to the vast majority of players who just want to enjoy the game, who want to be able to loot gear and throw it on, without having to worry that it will make them look foolish, and without having to jump through a dozen hoops just to gain the same effect as just throwing on the gear they already own.

 

Yes 4 days before launch you may not get your look, but a few months in once the patterns become readily available the crafters will be kicking out the items people want.

 

Yes, but that still fails to meet the criteria, because it requires that you BUY the orange gear. Even if the price would be reasonable, and chances are it wouldn't be, you would still have the hassle involved in going on the GTN and trying to find the look you want, which is an added step that player A would not need to do. Then, once you have the style you want, you would need to track down mods capable of giving it the same stats as the gear you already have. Do you truly think that model will ever balance out?

 

Do you truly believe that under the current system, if you sell off a level 15 piece of gear to a vendor, the cash he would give you for it would be enough to buy a piece of orange gear equivalent to the level 13 armor you already have, AND the mods necessary to equal the stats of the level 15 blue armor you sold off? Do you believe that this system would ever balance out for Player B? Or do you just not care about balance?

 

The problem with that reasoning is that this is not a single player game and any change you add will affect all players regardless of whether they are interested in the new feature or not.

 

No more than in how you use it. If you don't want to use the system, you won't have to. The alternative mechanisms would remain in place.

 

Personally I do not want anything like the WoW/DCUO appearance tab functionality. The current crafting implementation achieves the same results but also has a feeling of acomplishment to it.

 

Then continue to use it even after they add an appearance tab system, nobody will stop you. Your argument seems to imply that you're interested in how much work you put in, how much a sense of achievement you get out of accomplishing things, but nobody is talking about altering any of that so arguments on those grounds hold no water. What you really want is to keep it difficult for me to get the things I want, which I believe is indefensibly selfish.

 

What are you talking about? Every appearance in the game has a corresponding orange item. Just mod it with raid mods and you can wear it forever. The game doesn't need an appearance tab as it basically has one already.

 

Not even close. It has a Bizarro appearance tab system at best, an incomplete simulacrum that fails to accomplish the necessary objectives.

The custom item mechanic is better than an appeareance tab. This way the crafters are goin to be able to provide the community with extra value, even to people already in raid gear who want to change their looks...

The thread about the appearance tab was restarted here

 

Don't need an appearance tab, the way the crafting system works.

I disagree, we need one, and even if it is in, it won"t be sufficient.

Not only custom gear do not cover all your progression, but also, cloaks, shoulders, are not separated from the chest piece. When you'll tab, you'll tab all of it. Provided you like the cloak on one piece which is not moddable, you are screwed.

The fact that you can ignore the apearence tab if you don't want it is fine and dandy but you cant say it doesn't effect crafting. You severely criple the usefulness of most mods. Mods are on par with ops gear at best but never better. So why take the time to fully mod out orange gear when you can just get potentialy ugly gear that already has all the good stats and cover it up with an appearence tab? Edited December 16, 2011 by Corros

Right now we have two options:

 

The easy way: collect purples with nice stats but a look you might not want

 

The harder way: collect oranges from crafters, commendation and quests, collect purple mods for nice stats, look like you want to look

 

 

a appeareance tab would destroy the second option...

Right now we have two options:

 

The easy way: collect purples with nice stats but a look you might not want

 

The harder way: collect oranges from crafters, commendation and quests, collect purple mods for nice stats, look like you want to look

 

 

a appeareance tab would destroy the second option...

 

The second option won't work (unless they fixed something without telling us, which I doubt) as the endgame gear has set bonuses (which afaik are on the gear, not the mods) so even with the same mods a set of orange gear will be worse than a set of purple gear, so much for choice.

 

Secondly, someone that finds a nice purple item (and they apparently do exist before lvl50) is SOL as it's not fully moddable and from what Bioware told us it's only blues and below that have a craftable version for each "look"...

 

These points were made over and over again after their "clarification" of the mod system (which tbh didn't clarify anything for those of us that were in the last 2 betas due to the above 2 issues, we already knew about the stuff they posted about)

 

That said, I rather have them address these two issues (rather sooner than later) than add an appearance tab.

The second option won't work (unless they fixed something without telling us, which I doubt) as the endgame gear has set bonuses (which afaik are on the gear, not the mods) so even with the same mods a set of orange gear will be worse than a set of purple gear, so much for choice.

 

Secondly, someone that finds a nice purple item (and they apparently do exist before lvl50) is SOL as it's not fully moddable and from what Bioware told us it's only blues and below that have a craftable version for each "look"...

 

These points were made over and over again after their "clarification" of the mod system (which tbh didn't clarify anything for those of us that were in the last 2 betas due to the above 2 issues, we already knew about the stuff they posted about)

 

That said, I rather have them address these two issues (rather sooner than later) than add an appearance tab.

 

It's feasible to add the same set boni to orange item sets or add those boni to the mods which are exclusive to orange items, like hilt and barrel.

 

And adding more orange items is also relatively easy...

With the modding system, I think the appearance tab is not necessary. Indeed, modding your gear to match looks and stats is an interesting process in and of itself.

 

What I would wish, however, were a way to take any item, and convert it, for a fee for example, or using some raw material, into an empty orange item keeping its original looks (correct me if I am mistaken, but I was under the impression this is not possible so far).

It's feasible to add the same set boni to orange item sets or add those boni to the mods which are exclusive to orange items, like hilt and barrel.

 

And adding more orange items is also relatively easy...

Then destroying the precedence of operations gear, as they lose their edge, aka boni sets.

 

It's an endless circle, and for reasons already mentioned, none of that addresses what an a-tab would.

It's feasible to add the same set boni to orange item sets or add those boni to the mods which are exclusive to orange items, like hilt and barrel.

 

And adding more orange items is also relatively easy...

 

Adding them to the mods would be the most sensible thing to do, since unlike orange gear, mods become less powerful as you level up. As far as I'm aware this currently isn't the case though, but we'll see, it will be a while before I'll be raiding so not too bothered right now though I want to make sure BioWare is keenly aware of the issue and I've been hoping on some dev feedback on this since the last beta, not a peep so far though.

 

A (imho) better option than adding new orange gear would be to just "lock" the initial (armor or barrel/hilt) mod in the purple gear so you can't remove it, but you CAN replace it.

 

Neither seems like it would require an excessive amount of work given the relatively limited number of purple items and purple mods (and taking into account that purple gear used to be fully moddable before).

 

Well, just my 2cents.

I'm level 21 now and in addition to keeping my Light Saber up to date, I've been keeping key companions up to date on equipment mods as well. This has given me some experience with how Orange modifiables work in the game at a practical level. It's a very nice system and could circumvent the need for an appearance tab, if Bioware wished to do so.

 

The current problem is that there is no ready way to duplicate a particular look in an Orange, modifiable version. If they could provide a mechanism for taking any non-modifiable piece of armor or clothing, strip all stats from it and give it the appropriate mod slots, we could have the same freedom of appearance an appearance tab would offer, using the mechanics mostly in game already.

 

It could become a function of crafters, with some additional materials, to convert non-modifiable items into mod clean, slotted and modifiable versions. It could also be done as a cash sink, where you have to bring the item to an NPC and pay a fee for the service, based on the level of the item. Or, they could combine both options.

 

You would basically be stripping the stats away to make an item into a "skin", to which appropriate mods could be added, just like with current Orange gear. Since you don't obtain any mods in the process, there is no subversion of the system of mod expense and availability in the game.