I remember not being able to beat that final boss fight on Tatt for the smuggler without getting help. (Because you didn't have a healer at the time). I remember not being able to finish the Jedi knight story because I couldn't beat the emperor with T3. Had to get help. And as a solo player who plays for the stories, I found that very annoying. Now.... after playing for almost 9yrs, having most of the holocrons, and all the class buffs, I've gotten better. I know and use interrupts, dcs, etc even during fights I know I won't lose because I always play with a healing companion. I get buy with the green gear mods from the vendors. I'll run the occasional solo FP and planetary quest just because I like the story line (heeeey Thanna ). Fwiw...I've never had any trouble with any of the fights in KOTFE/KOTET and beyond with any of the classes. (That should give you an idea of my skill level)

 

And now they're about to change the difficulty of the content I run the most. I play ALL games on easy because I don't care about the challenge anymore. I got my fill of "challenge" after I finally beat Battletoads and Mike Tyson's Punch Out as a kid.

So it's real simple. If I find it's gotten to difficult to complete (which I highly doubt btw), there are plenty of other things I can spend $15 a month on. I'm not here for the gear grind, the endgame content, the group content, or to be "challenged". I'm here for the star wars story... that's it.... plain and simple.

 

So let's see... we're got a few more days until 6.0 goes live. I wonder if I'll still be here at 6.01.

I remember all those things as well, they were the reason I quit originally then came back to stay once they were no longer an issue.

I got through the class story the first time, sure. However I never had any interest in the end game content and the idea of doing it all again on another toon just for story gave me a headache, so I stopped playing. It's not fun spending hours slogging through hard npcs just to get to the next cut scene or character conversation for story players, it's as simple as that. We don't give two hoots about the combat we care about seeing the story. Not having that option available for an easy story mode is a mistake but I guess they'll figure that out when a bunch of people leave, again.

I remember all those things as well, they were the reason I quit originally then came back to stay once they were no longer an issue.

 

I got through the class story the first time, sure. However I never had any interest in the end game content and the idea of doing it all again on another toon just for story gave me a headache, so I stopped playing. It's not fun spending hours slogging through hard npcs just to get to the next cut scene or character conversation for story players, it's as simple as that. We don't give two hoots about the combat we care about seeing the story. Not having that option available for an easy story mode is a mistake but I guess they'll figure that out when a bunch of people leave, again.

No offence intended, but that sounds awefully like you just want a graphic novel with some interaction. Which isn’t what an MMO is. Which would mean swtor wasn’t really designed as a game for you.

No offence intended, but that sounds awefully like you just want a graphic novel with some interaction. Which isn’t what an MMO is. Which would mean swtor wasn’t really designed as a game for you.

It has been for the past 4+ years or longer and people like me are now invested in the story. If it wasn't what they wanted they never should have made the change to begin with.

Many games have multiple difficulty levels, it's not an unreasonable ask. Then again my take on everything is to say it's not upto me how someone else should enjoy their game but to instead cater to all play styles rather then ripping away one persons fun and giving it to another.

They changed it because so many asked for it and they wanted our $$$ to keep the game going. If they still want/need those $$$ something will have to give. But hey, find me an swtor graphic novel with some amount of npc interactions and battles, with the same chars, and I will gladly play it instead.

I don't hate the combat, I just don't need it to be tedious and slow with increased mob hp making story replay take 10x longer. I've played all the bioware games on normal for the first play throughs, then afterwards I swap to casual for story replayability. It's really not upto anyone else to tell me what I should be playing and how I should enjoy it. It's outright cruel for bioware to rip it away from us now after so many years invested.

I remember not being able to finish the Jedi knight story because I couldn't beat the emperor with T3. Had to get help.

I remember having the same issue with the JK, my friend ended up helping me although it was extremely fun at the time but since the player base dropping off including my friends it would be kind of miserable to face the same punishment.

I just remember my friend saying "I'll kick him in the nuts!" I burst out laughing because I never played smuggler at that period of time to know about the dirty kick haha

These people think that this is "super difficult"? Seems like they have never even played a single player game (a story-based one!) on hard difficulty. Oh, the memories of Dragon Age Origins on max difficulty... You get amazing story AND great challenge together. That's a well-made video game, right there.

I LOL'ED at the fact you stated Origins heck you could faceroll it with a mage so easily it was so unbalanced, DA:2 was more difficult in terms of Bosses and mechanics but still not as difficult in comparison to Halo 2 (Legendary) or Dark Souls. But original SWTOR was probably one of the hardest I played especially at the time since every other game used the low health mechanic, (I don't know what it's called) but when the player gets to low health it exaggerates the point yet allowing the player to take more hits to die than what should be needed. Massaging the gameplay whereas SWTOR didn't have that luxury.

It has been for the past 4+ years or longer and people like me are now invested in the story. If it wasn't what they wanted they never should have made the change to begin with.

.

You won’t get any argument from me because they should never have done it. The game is and was an MMO. Trying to turn it into a graphic novel where combat doesn’t mater is what drove so many people away.

And yes, I am on your side with regards to making the game more difficult for people to play, like yourself. I’m on record as saying they could do it a different way and then everyone would have what they want. Instead, it seems like they haven’t learnt their lesson and intend to alienate a part of the player base, yet again !!

Bioware really don’t seem to have a proper direction with this game. It’s been swerving from a planned RPG (before EA) to an MMORPG to an MMO to a super easy Solo RPG STORY to another solo RPG STORY with more MMO and back to more an MMO and now an MMORPG again with more difficulty for the STORY guys.

They are like a bunch of headless chooks because every swerve has made players leave and they never get enough back to replace those they drove away.

I have criticised them for making the vanilla and many parts of the game to easy for MMO based players. It really had become a face roll game and was super easy for any MMO player.

But I also suggested a fix was to give MMO players another instance (like the pvp one) that increased the difficulty, the same as we have veteran and master mode story chapters. This would have been the most elegant solution to allow the difficulty to stay the same for story players and increased difficulty for MMO players.

They could simply add another instance with increased difficulty for people who want it (so it's story - like it is now, veteran - a bit harder than PTS and PVP).

My guess is that story instance would be the most populated because everybody know that part of the game and I assume few people want open world content to take longer - still, this would work for everybody.

It has been for the past 4+ years or longer and people like me are now invested in the story. If it wasn't what they wanted they never should have made the change to begin with.

 

Many games have multiple difficulty levels, it's not an unreasonable ask. Then again my take on everything is to say it's not upto me how someone else should enjoy their game but to instead cater to all play styles rather then ripping away one persons fun and giving it to another.

 

They changed it because so many asked for it and they wanted our $$$ to keep the game going. If they still want/need those $$$ something will have to give. But hey, find me an swtor graphic novel with some amount of npc interactions and battles, with the same chars, and I will gladly play it instead.

 

I don't hate the combat, I just don't need it to be tedious and slow with increased mob hp making story replay take 10x longer. I've played all the bioware games on normal for the first play throughs, then afterwards I swap to casual for story replayability. It's really not upto anyone else to tell me what I should be playing and how I should enjoy it. It's outright cruel for bioware to rip it away from us now after so many years invested.

There should be nothing wrong with other players enjoying other aspects of the game. IMO that is what has made this game unique and has kept it going when other games which have suffered similar content droughts would have gone under by now.

As for combat and difficulty levels IMO … this should help solve a number of issues.

 

Playing the game

 

[/snip]

 

3. As for the over all difficulties of the entire game I have often suggested that there be 3 levels of difficulty EVEN for the solo player.

** Story mode (both single and multiplayer)

** Veteran mode (both single and multiplayer)

** Master (death before dishonor) mode for both single and multiplayer

IMO the foundation is already there. yes it would take some programming to get this completed. BUT … I also see where gaming has developed to the point where this might be a viable solution for most everyone.

 

Another part of that suggestion would be:

** select difficulty level (before choosing single or multiplayer menu)

** If SOLO … choose Dailies area / Heroics area / or FP's to run

** If Multiplayer: use the appropriate drop down menu to select as needed including Heroics / FP's and OP's

 

I know … some might not want this. I'm just looking for a better way to solve the matter.

 

If it's worth the time and effort to continually change the armoring system and all related items … IMO it should be just as important to look at a method that provides a good way to tell the story that the developers want told .. as well as providing the means of offering the level of challenges needed to keep as large an audience as possible.

 

IMO what is wrong with providing the "best parts" of the game for a larger audience ?

** some players are more hard core gamers …(but prefer difficult PvE) nothing wrong with that ! I know that I'm not and never will be. But that does not give me the right to judge those who are.

** Some prefer strictly PvP… For them nothing else matters. IMO … they are missing out on a lot of fun.. but to them the only real challenge is to test their skills against other players … better understanding the individual "build" of their class and fine tuning their equipment with the BiS available !!

** Some are more casual and are only interested in the more entertaining side of the game. IMO … they are missing out on challenging themselves a bit. But again … their idea of fun is simply different than mine.

** Some prefer a cinematic driven story with PvE content and enjoy the content provided as the two intertwine unfolding not only a story … but a PvE that with a more specific purpose.

Obviously there's more to the game … but I guess what I'm trying to say is that today MMO's are evolving … again. The company that realizes this and takes the next logical steps in a development that addresses as many of these variables as possible … IMO .. that game will continue for many years to come !

Yes, because if you can't figure out how to do it, that must mean whoever said they did it must be lying. I'd almost forgotten how fragile people's egos are on the internet.

 

I didn't do it on a jugg on PTS, but the strategy is the same: corner pull and use your disablers and AOE to kill the weaker adds first. So slam to stun weak mobs and spread dots, pop reflect when they wake up, roar when the reflect falls off. If you aren't completely useless at dps, that affords you enough time to kill all of the weaker adds, removing a big chunk of incoming damage. Picking off the two remaining gold droids should be no problem.

 

On a sorc it should be even easier because force storm stuns weak adds and you can lift one of the golds before retreating behind the corner... plus all the crazy DR sorc gets if properly specced and great burst AOE.

 

And by the way, you do know that it's actually two different trash pulls, right? The silver droids to your right as you come out the door can be ignored or killed separately from the bigger pull to the left with the two elites.

 

edit: the post where I described how I did it on sniper.

I wish more DPS knew the value of picking off weaker mobs first with regards to incoming damage. Of course you do have to explain then that a healer mob needs attention before that but in essence I see too many DPS attack the biggest targets first and wonder why they're dying.

It should be basic knowledge that picking off weaker mobs first greatly increases your survivability, but yeah...

You won’t get any argument from me because they should never have done it. The game is and was an MMO. Trying to turn it into a graphic novel where combat doesn’t mater is what drove so many people away.

 

And yes, I am on your side with regards to making the game more difficult for people to play, like yourself. I’m on record as saying they could do it a different way and then everyone would have what they want. Instead, it seems like they haven’t learnt their lesson and intend to alienate a part of the player base, yet again !!

 

Bioware really don’t seem to have a proper direction with this game. It’s been swerving from a planned RPG (before EA) to an MMORPG to an MMO to a super easy Solo RPG STORY to another solo RPG STORY with more MMO and back to more an MMO and now an MMORPG again with more difficulty for the STORY guys.

They are like a bunch of headless chooks because every swerve has made players leave and they never get enough back to replace those they drove away.

 

I have criticised them for making the vanilla and many parts of the game to easy for MMO based players. It really had become a face roll game and was super easy for any MMO player.

But I also suggested a fix was to give MMO players another instance (like the pvp one) that increased the difficulty, the same as we have veteran and master mode story chapters. This would have been the most elegant solution to allow the difficulty to stay the same for story players and increased difficulty for MMO players.

I am an MMO player, just other MMOs. I have played Everquest, The Secret World, WoW, Guild Wars and so on.

As an MMO SWTOR was just never that fun.

Apparently their idea of a challenge is for it to take 3+ mins to drop an npc with a little more damage and less healing, rather than the 3 sec it takes to drop one now. That's not fun. It's not even challenging. It's an unnecessary and boring grind. That's why I quit the first time as the only thing going for it was the story -- which had hours of slow npc slogging through to get small snipets -- amd why I came back when they fixed that.

It does far better as an RPG without the MMO.

I guess people will remember soon enough how freakin boring that damned grind fest was. People already complain NOW that it takes too long to get through the skytroopers in KOTFE/KOTET. Wait till everything takes that long or longer.

You won’t get any argument from me because they should never have done it. The game is and was an MMO. Trying to turn it into a graphic novel where combat doesn’t mater is what drove so many people away.

Good point but let's have a moment of clarity. SWTOR has always been very easy game compared to other PC, PS4, or Nintendo games. Go play the new Borderlands 3 on easy mode and the mechanics of the fight will caffeinate your brain. My perspective on gaming comes from arcades from the late 70's and 80's where your skills and limited pocket of quarters determined how long you could stay in the arcade.

I think the real issue is the demographic who play with no other human contact and the thought of maybe having to join a guild and group up for a hard fight displeases them. Then again this is an MMO. If it wasn't for awhile it's the appropriate time to return to that.

Good point but let's have a moment of clarity. SWTOR has always been very easy game compared to other PC, PS4, or Nintendo games. Go play the new Borderlands 3 on easy mode and the mechanics of the fight will caffeinate your brain. My perspective on gaming comes from arcades from the late 70's and 80's where your skills and limited pocket of quarters determined how long you could stay in the arcade.

 

I think the real issue is the demographic who play with no other human contact and the thought of maybe having to join a guild and group up for a hard fight displeases them. Then again this is an MMO. If it wasn't for awhile it's the appropriate time to return to that.

It was never 100% mmo. Hell it even started without you being able to take anyone into your class story instances with you. SWTOR was always designed for the story to be SP and the rest (flashpoints, ops etc) to be group.

No other MMO past or present has done that -- They set that SP component to the game from day 1.

It was never 100% mmo. Hell it even started without you being able to take anyone into your class story instances with you. SWTOR was always designed for the story to be SP and the rest (flashpoints, ops etc) to be group.

 

No other MMO past or present has done that -- They set that SP component to the game from day 1.

So what do you do when you use up all your story? Especially that juicy original class story? Make a new character and shelf the current one? For me SWTOR was a fun class story and then beyond Black Hole everything was what you did with your guild mates. World Bosses, Operations, HM Flashpoints, collecting Rakata & Verpine gear etc. I have friends in this game going back to 2013 and all of them met when the story was long behind us.

And here we go again. Pitting one side against the other. You have the story people that like the way they played and then you have the people who like to do Hard mode flashpoints and nightmare operations telling them they should be doing that as well.

This is a game and people should be able to play how and what they like. I really wish both sides would learn that how they play is not the only way to play and stop jumping down the other's throat. Story people have a right to be able to play their way without being criticized by the group players and group players have the same right.

What I would wish is that people will finally learn this and look at what each side is asking for and find a compromise that doesn't alienate more players because what this game can't afford is to lose more players and if they continue the way they are, not considering everyone, that is what is going to happen and then what will happen to the game?

So what do you do when you use up all your story? Especially that juicy original class story? Make a new character and shelf the current one? For me SWTOR was a fun class story and then beyond Black Hole everything was what you did with your guild mates. World Bosses, Operations, HM Flashpoints, collecting Rakata & Verpine gear etc. I have friends in this game going back to 2013 and all of them met when the story was long behind us.

Do you know what it actuslly takes to use up all the story in a game that has multiple options, multiple romances, hell even different dialogue and npc interactions depending on the gender of your chars?

I've done the JK story about 5 times now, still don't have a dark side JK.

Consular 2 or 3

Smuggler 2

BH 2

Agent 3

SW 2

Inquis 2

Trooper ? 5? More?

All female toons. Now I'm starting on male toons.

Then there is the fact they keep adding more story, so you keep going back to chars.

It's never done, not for story players.

The very nature of bioware stories means you have reasons to do them over and over again. Sometimes for different dialogue. Sometimes to see your favourite parts again. Sometimes for different romances.

The very nature of ongoing stories means you also have reasons to return to past characters.

SWTORs story is so phnomolly huge it would take years to see it all.

Its also not like we don't interact with other players, we just interact differently. Discussing the story, speculating on things to come, reading or writing fanfic etc.

The "difficulty" change on PTS 3 made class story areas slightly harder, but nothing resembling the original game, making the change basically pointless. Boss fights are still stupidly easy.

This means the level-sync change simply makes endgame heroics/dailies more tedious to finish. If you group with one other player, they should be as easy as they are currently, but soloing will definitely be more of a grind on many planets.

Overall, that means the change isn't worthwhile, in my opinion. It would have been more acceptable if the level-sync made boss fights and other class story encounters like they were from 1.0-3.x. That's not what's occurring though.

The "difficulty" change on PTS 3 made class story areas slightly harder, but nothing resembling the original game, making the change basically pointless. Boss fights are still stupidly easy.

 

This means the level-sync change simply makes endgame heroics/dailies more tedious to finish. If you group with one other player, they should be as easy as they are currently, but soloing will definitely be more of a grind on many planets.

 

Overall, that means the change isn't worthwhile, in my opinion. It would have been more acceptable if the level-sync made boss fights and other class story encounters like they were from 1.0-3.x. That's not what's occurring though.

Well, then this is disappointing. This means they didn't manage to change difficulty of leveling content, they just changed the difficulty for people that grind Heroics. This way the rpg players like myself will not be happy, as the vanilla game play will be still without any excitement and people who need to do Heroics will be unhappy because clearing them will take longer.

In negotiations there is a "win-win: scenario when both sides are happy with the deal.

I guess her we have a lose-lose scenario...

Ugh. Well, I'll give it a try once 6.0 comes out and hope for the best.

I just really miss finding or crafting a piece of blue gear and actually feeling more powerful. Aggroing multiple groups and then only winning that fight because I played well. Getting a new ability, figuring out how it works into my rotation, and seeing combat get more fleshed out.

There's so much to SWTOR's gameplay that so much of the game has totally ignored since 4.0, and it makes all that content so much worse than it used to be.

And here we go again. Pitting one side against the other. You have the story people that like the way they played and then you have the people who like to do Hard mode flashpoints and nightmare operations telling them they should be doing that as well.

 

This is a game and people should be able to play how and what they like. I really wish both sides would learn that how they play is not the only way to play and stop jumping down the other's throat. Story people have a right to be able to play their way without being criticized by the group players and group players have the same right.

 

What I would wish is that people will finally learn this and look at what each side is asking for and find a compromise that doesn't alienate more players because what this game can't afford is to lose more players and if they continue the way they are, not considering everyone, that is what is going to happen and then what will happen to the game?

100% agreed

And here we go again. Pitting one side against the other. You have the story people that like the way they played and then you have the people who like to do Hard mode flashpoints and nightmare operations telling them they should be doing that as well.

 

This is a game and people should be able to play how and what they like. I really wish both sides would learn that how they play is not the only way to play and stop jumping down the other's throat. Story people have a right to be able to play their way without being criticized by the group players and group players have the same right.

 

What I would wish is that people will finally learn this and look at what each side is asking for and find a compromise that doesn't alienate more players because what this game can't afford is to lose more players and if they continue the way they are, not considering everyone, that is what is going to happen and then what will happen to the game?

Sorry, this is more complicated then simply 2 groups of people: story players that supposedly just want to watch cut scenes and endgamers aka group players that supposedly want group content difficulty, or as someone put it 'operations style' difficulty in vanilla leveling game.

In my OP I clearly stated that I don't do endgame and rarely participate in group content. Yet I want my rpg experience to be more then just watching cut scenes. I don't pit anyone against other people.

Man, I hope they do bump up the challenge in the vanilla content. I've been wanting that to happen ever since they made it so brain dead easy and undermined the leveling gameplay in 4.0. I'll never understand why BioWare thought removing the game from their game was the right thing to do, but if they put it back in, I'd come back to SWTOR in a heartbeat.

^this

Well if they can't or don't want to make different instances with different difficulty levels, then why not give stealth to all classes, so that people like me who find endless fights upon endless fights to be utterly boring and in my case sometimes actually painful for my right wrist who already suffers from repetitive movements when i'm working (which is also why long fights or too many mobs are really annoying to me) can just stealth through all the mobs and go from point A to B to just enjoy the story ?

As it is now, i spend most of my time going from a point to another actually trying to avoid as many mobs as possible on non stealth characters, which may not be necessarily faster but far less annoying.

I do enjoy the Stories most of all and I do like the Fights that go along with the BioWare stories (That sense of accomplishment and winning against the characters foe). I don't do the Operations and rarely the other group functions (not why I came to SWTOR). As long as the fights are manageable for the stories I'm good, but if the stories start requiring Hard level Op gear, then i'm right out, not what I came for.

The differences between the Stories (what BioWare has always done best) and Operations, other gear intensive activities should Always be manageable using the games own Difficulty system (Easy, Medium, Hard) That's what it's there for in the 1st place. Simplifying that to the point it doesn't really do anything is in the end "Taking the easy way out, Put the work on the customers" (Have we seen that here before?). Players can further refine with gear or simply not wearing gear and parts but still, it's the companies responsibility first and foremost (Like it is everywhere else in the world). Customers shouldn't have to *Fix what the company Lacked.

At the end of the day it's about money. BW understands that if they make the earlier stuff more boring and take longer to complete more people are apt to purchase the level 70 tokens off the CM. I've been playing this game for 8 years. I already spacebar through every story conversation because I've seen them dozens and dozens of times each. I just up and skipped to Ossus on my last 8 or so because I just no longer care about the early story or the companions. You think I--and many other vets--are interested in it taking longer?

Those 70 tokens are looking more and more desirable, and that is what BW is banking on.

So what do you do when you use up all your story? Especially that juicy original class story? Make a new character and shelf the current one? For me SWTOR was a fun class story and then beyond Black Hole everything was what you did with your guild mates. World Bosses, Operations, HM Flashpoints, collecting Rakata & Verpine gear etc. I have friends in this game going back to 2013 and all of them met when the story was long behind us.

You take what was once a great idea for a MMO … change it to F2P in order to pay your bills and promptly … well

Who cares any more. We can rehash this crap until hell freezes over !

Bottom line: change is inevitable . You either like it … or not !