So they go to a discord that is BY DEFINITION limiting their perspective to... ranked pvp and nim.

Well in defense that's one type of group.....

I've never seen a certain someone in, for example, the swtor reddit which is another place players self gather or however he put it. How very open minded and forward thinking of them.

And then it falls apart lol....I don't think anyone takes what was said even close to face value. If he was truly just getting a variety of feedback then where are the interactions here to go with them. Sure they could just collect feedback...but he could also quietly do the same in DISCORD. Which clearly isn't the case. Bottom line is as long as the FORUMS are the only official method to ask/get answers then communication between DEVs and players needs improvement on a massive scale...or pull the plug on the forums and leave all announcements as the only communication and be done with it.

Ok, going to ask a simple question that I feel should have been obvious I wanted the answer to by now.

So supposedly a certain dev is active in other discords and not just the one being discussed here. Does someone have a link? Are they as active as the one primarily being discussed? Is the dev support as prominent as in the discord we're primarily discussing?

If any of those questions fail, BW is, in fact, prioritizing communication with a specific group.

I've tried raising my issues here, including making threads on both 6.x gearing and the failure to have a max level endgame. Both failed to garner much attention from the community, much less the devs.

If I'm the only person that cares about a casual max level endgame, perhaps it's time to admit the game I've been supporting for nearly a decade is no longer for me. I find this a sad prospect. But if my issues are no longer important enough to the community as a whole to gain traction, perhaps it is time for me to end my time here. I feel stuck between the hardcore and Uber casuals. I've always assumed there was a decent chunk of us that enjoyed casual group activities and had exhausted solo story content long ago.

If the game has reached the point where there's exclusively a group of hardcore and then another group of super casuals that won't or can't group, there is nothing left here for me. Making a group for the multiple boss sm op or a hm ev has gotten to the point where it takes anywhere from half an hour to a couple hours just to form a group. This is the content I primarily enjoy. I would also like new content on the level of ev or kp (without the puzzle, because even that is difficult for the current incarnation of pugs). Gods is too long and mechanically involved even in sm, dxun is better but still too difficult for the average swtor pug (and yes, I've done both. In the case of gods, I've done hard mode before my guild more or less fell apart).

The point is merely, from the sources I am aware of, the "theorycrafting' discord is the only place that is as popular as it is that also gets dev support at noticeable levels. To reiterate, I would love to be provided a place to discuss issues that I care about with dev input. To be frank, such a place, to my knowledge, does not exist. And even if I was to create such such discord, I wouldn't know how to get a base of player support, much less personal attention from devs.

The point is merely, from the sources I am aware of, the "theorycrafting' discord is the only place that is as popular as it is that also gets dev support at noticeable levels. To reiterate, I would love to be provided a place to discuss issues that I care about with dev input. To be frank, such a place, to my knowledge, does not exist. And even if I was to create such such discord, I wouldn't know how to get a base of player support, much less personal attention from devs.

Dev input has disappeared since they stopped most marketing and side activities like dev streams were put to an hold. Let's not talk about interviews as well, as Swtor is gone from the radars from most mmo news sadly. And the last time we had official dev input on the forums on how they make the game, we quickly saw that their input was more a flawed vision than anything else, and their answer was trying too hard to be correctly marketed that it basically took us for idiots by saying nonsense.

If I'm the only person that cares about a casual max level endgame, perhaps it's time to admit the game I've been supporting for nearly a decade is no longer for me. I find this a sad prospect. But if my issues are no longer important enough to the community as a whole to gain traction, perhaps it is time for me to end my time here. I feel stuck between the hardcore and Uber casuals. I've always assumed there was a decent chunk of us that enjoyed casual group activities and had exhausted solo story content long ago.

 

If the game has reached the point where there's exclusively a group of hardcore and then another group of super casuals that won't or can't group, there is nothing left here for me.

 

I would also like new content on the level of ev or kp (without the puzzle, because even that is difficult for the current incarnation of pugs). Gods is too long and mechanically involved even in sm, dxun is better but still too difficult for the average swtor pug (and yes, I've done both. In the case of gods, I've done hard mode before my guild more or less fell apart).

As for what you seek my friend, I'm afraid this game isn't anymore targeted for you, just like I saw two years ago it wasn't anymore for me as well (even tho I did consider myself an hardcore player back in the days). If you want I can give you some other names of MMOs that would suit your taste better, both in terms of content and playerbase. Just say the word

Sweetie, I've been weird my entire life. Remarkably, it has served me quite well. Regardless, I will give your post the consideration it is due, to which I respond:

Duly Noted,

<<a little early for a Martini, but hey, sips one anyway>>

But yes, I think it's a mistake for Bioware's lead developer to continue to respond to a channel which is unable to enforce Bioware's protocols.

 

 

Dasty the Forum Weirdo Warrior

And woh, you guys managed to anger Dasty. How's that possible.

Ok, going to ask a simple question that I feel should have been obvious I wanted the answer to by now.

 

So supposedly a certain dev is active in other discords and not just the one being discussed here. Does someone have a link? Are they as active as the one primarily being discussed? Is the dev support as prominent as in the discord we're primarily discussing?

 

I've tried raising my issues here, including making threads on both 6.x gearing and the failure to have a max level endgame. Both failed to garner much attention from the community, much less the devs.

i realize guess both google and discord are a bit too challenging for some, but if you type in "swtor discord" on google and hit enter, you will find a forum thread listing invites to some of the larger discords, where also Crhis can be found if you really want to go full Chapman on KappaChris You can join the discords and find out the answers yourself as it seems pretty subjective stuff

and for the rest of your post, well the sense of entitlement is pretty clear, just because you make a thread, or a hundred, doesn't mean that devs will respond tho, and that goes for all platforms

And woh, you guys managed to anger Dasty. How's that possible.

technology and new developments that people don't understand or know well can be frustrating at times and when ppl are outside of their comfort zone it can easily lead to anger when they don't fully understand it, I used to work with tech support while at uni and lots of older people came in angry with tech issues

it is a bit disappointing to see him posting with the intent to be demeaning towards other players, usually, Dasty is decently levelheaded

/snip

The developers ignore the regular users as we are the ones that usually find the fault in what they are doing, and usually the ones that rally against bad decisions. I'm sure 99% of the forums users would rather stand behind Dasty, a trusted, contributing, and usually right member of this forum than, fly by night part timers that seems to swoop in, insert a snarky comment, then run off back to obscurity .

PS. I like his signature

The developers ignore the regular users as we are the ones that usually find the fault in what they are doing, and usually the ones that rally against bad decisions. I'm sure 99% of the forums users would rather stand behind Dasty, a trusted, contributing, and usually right member of this forum than, fly by night part timers that seems to swoop in, insert a snarky comment, then run off back to obscurity .

 

PS. I like his signature

This could be a perfectly fine opportunity to do little self reflection and stuff. Devs not spending their free time enjoying the enwizened precense of quite entitled forum regulars with high post count is due to ..developers not being able to deal wtih all that great advice? Or..could it possibly be there is little something about cultrure of conversation here that makes these forums kinda...less enjoyble for almost everybody, devs included?

People here are sometimes extremely eager to turn arguments all about person posting more and actual game or game mechanics less. Ad hominem is done eagerly and gleefully.

"Hm. This person is not about arguing or insulting or flaming me. Instead, he is trying to cause me as much actual damage as this restricting setting allows. " <- - I've been on internet since late 90's. During all those years, I remember thinking something along these lines maybe 6-7 times. Two of those times been here, which is a pretty impressive ratio really. Considering we talk about a freaking video game.

This isn't always a great place to post in or read, when going gets rough.

Lots of the issues here are pretty integral to how net forums are. Each argument in each thread turns into two trehnches for those arguing. Same people arguing the same thing can last for decades in that setting. Meanwhile, in discord chat just floats by so fast that any specific body of water under the bridge rages by real fast.

^ Yet, despite all that I like forums as a setting much more than Discord. Conversation never stays around specific topic on discord, its just a chatroom and waterfall of text. Technically, forums and discord dedicated to Y should supplement one another for the hobbyist who enjoys Y. In practice, ppl don't have time to do both forums and discord. So they stick to discord and stuff forums are great at just stops happening.

This could be a perfectly fine opportunity to do little self reflection and stuff. Devs not spending their free time enjoying the enwizened precense of quite entitled forum regulars with high post count is due to ..developers not being able to deal wtih all that great advice? Or..could it possibly be there is little something about cultrure of conversation here that makes these forums kinda...less enjoyble for almost everybody, devs included?

 

People here are sometimes extremely eager to turn arguments about people more and actual game or game mechanics less. Ad hominem is done eagerly and gleefully.

 

"Hm. This person is not about arguing or insulting flaming me. Instead, he is trying to cause me as much actual damage as this restricting setting allows. " <- - I've been on internet since late 90's. During all those years, I remember thinking something alone these lines maybe 6-7 times. Two of those been here, which is pretty impressive ratio really. Considering we talk about a freaking video game. T

 

his isn't always a great place to post in or read, when going gets rough.

Kinda like this post?

Kinda like this post?

This thread is about these forums, discord and why latter gets devs posting, former not so much. In that setting, it makes sense to talk about these forums.

/snip

"

A sense of entitlement.... lol doesn't that say it all. Why would paying customers want / expect communication from the people who's jobs only exist because people play their game.

NO they don't need every message responded to, but ignoring entire threads on PTS etc, Not okay.

NO they don't have to give away spoilers.

NO they don't have to like players ideas.

YES players deserver better communication.

YES players deserve more regular interactions.

YES players deserve to know where a game is headed.

YES players deserve that their feedback to changes are taken into consideration, and given responses to concerns.

 

So should people join DISCORD to talk to him? ... that's up to the person I guess. But I don't see the point.

Read the above post, and try and reflect, if possible, because you haven't a clue about a lot of things, especially what the whole point of this post is.

isn't that just the main point of game forums, to allow people to have a "void" to scream at, meanwhile discord is more of a social and discussion platform, which is why the environment and atmosphere is more positive? also, i get ppl that used normal forums for 20+ years might have issues adapting to discord and its more fast-paced conversations but it's pretty clear forums are the graveyards, at least within gaming communities

Hi, a 20+ year gaming forum user, that also uses discord. What's alarming to me, as someone that's also moderated a game forum, is the unfettered access a private community has. In most other environments, devs are forbidden from doing this because of the optics. Whether that access is real, or imagined, it is implied. Now, if they wanted to open a public discord, that would be ideal. But the rules for a private discord are prohibitive. We've read an example of that in this very thread.

The information that he's gathering could be gathered anonymously just as easily, by sparking up conversations about perceived issues, and running with the feedback. All w/out creating the illusion of "playing favorites". As it stands right now, I see his explanation as more of a CMA post, than anything else. Whether that's what's going on or not, the illusion of "playing favorites" is there.

Hi, a 20+ year gaming forum user, that also uses discord. What's alarming to me, as someone that's also moderated a game forum, is the unfettered access a private community has. In most other environments, devs are forbidden from doing this because of the optics. Whether that access is real, or imagined, it is implied. Now, if they wanted to open a public discord, that would be ideal. But the rules for a private discord are prohibitive. We've read an example of that in this very thread.

 

The information that he's gathering could be gathered anonymously just as easily, by sparking up conversations about perceived issues, and running with the feedback. All w/out creating the illusion of "playing favorites". As it stands right now, I see his explanation as more of a CMA post, than anything else. Whether that's what's going on or not, the illusion of "playing favorites" is there.

Great summation. Of what I feel about this issue. Need to get a tin foil hat.

Great summation. Of what I feel about this issue. Need to get a tin foil hat.

Agreed and me too apparently

All without creating the illusion of "playing favorites". .

How do you know that with certainty though?

I mean, the very fact that he (Chris) is only present within ONE community Discord server (that we're aware of) signifies a potential for "playing favorites" , no?

( This was part of what i was trying to get at earlier with my other post in this thread , but i didn't do a very good job at articulating my point)

Hi, a 20+ year gaming forum user, that also uses discord. What's alarming to me, as someone that's also moderated a game forum, is the unfettered access a private community has. In most other environments, devs are forbidden from doing this because of the optics. Whether that access is real, or imagined, it is implied. Now, if they wanted to open a public discord, that would be ideal. But the rules for a private discord are prohibitive. We've read an example of that in this very thread.

 

The information that he's gathering could be gathered anonymously just as easily, by sparking up conversations about perceived issues, and running with the feedback. All w/out creating the illusion of "playing favorites". As it stands right now, I see his explanation as more of a CMA post, than anything else. Whether that's what's going on or not, the illusion of "playing favorites" is there.

I understand it can be a bit intimidating to move between one platform that you are used to another or several others, but that is basically where communication is at the moment. Like it or not, developers are responding using their personal accounts on Twitter both in replies and in dm, in twitch chat, on discords and on a lot of different platforms, that's just how gaming communication is (and most other fields as well). Just calm down a little and hold your pitchforks, all official communication will still go through the forums like KappaChris wrote before.

As I am sure you are aware, the developers gather feedback and information from several different platforms and the communities in these, I am sure most of the roleplaying, nightmare pve and ranked pvp communities moved to discords at some point within the last few years when forums began to die, but there were devs in those communities already then, devs communicating in real-time with players in swtor (and most other games) is nothing new, gaming looks very different now compared to 20 years ago.

In the end, it seems that this thread as well is turning to one of those back and forth or echo chamber discussions that this forum is filled with already, in the "waterfall" of discord this would have been done and dealt with after KappaChris post, but here it just goes round and round again, which in a way is a perfect illustration of why most forums died off.

Gatekeeping communication and conversations between player and developer is not something good

How do you know that with certainty though?

 

I mean, the very fact that he (Chris) is only present within ONE community Discord server (that we're aware of) signifies a potential for "playing favorites" , no?

 

( This was part of what i was trying to get at earlier with my other post in this thread , but i didn't do a very good job at articulating my point)

You are confused, KappaChris is in quite a few discords with the most common ones being the main swtor discord, the server discords and a few others with specific themes/purposes, like the theorycrafting one. Let's try to not use bad faith to make a point in a discussion.

How do you know that with certainty though?

 

I mean, the very fact that he (Chris) is only present within ONE community Discord server (that we're aware of) signifies a potential for "playing favorites" , no?

 

( This was part of what i was trying to get at earlier with my other post in this thread , but i didn't do a very good job at articulating my point)

That was exactly my point. No matter what's actually happening, the optics are bad.

I understand it can be a bit intimidating to move between one platform that you are used to another or several others.

Just going to stop you right here, because there is no "intimidation". I bounce between a lot of platforms, even run my own little discord server for one of my guilds in Rappelz. It's dead now, like that game is to me, but it exists. What you're choosing to sweep under the rug with your "nothing to see here, it's just business as usual" is that these forums exist, in part, for exactly what's going on privately on discord. This is why other companies do not allow devs to publicly belong to private channels of communication, officially. As was pointed out previously, when all that time is spent over there, privately discussing things, nothing is being discussed here, until he felt the need to cover his butt with an official post here. Your premise is flawed, the problem is that there are official channels for him to do what he's doing privately, and they are largely not being used.

 

You are confused, KappaChris is in quite a few discords with the most common ones being the main swtor discord, the server discords and a few others with specific themes/purposes, like the theorycrafting one.

ah ok, well yeah that makes a bit more sense then, i suppose.

But i mean, still , imho it would be soooo much better (optics-wise and info-wise) if Chris posted/interacted here at swtor.com official forums far more often than he apparently converses in those Discord(s) . And i don't buy the argument of "well these forums are toxic so they drove him away!" line.

Regardles, why can't he do both equally?

---

Let's try to not use bad faith to make a point in a discussion.

huh? "bad faith" ? daheck do you even mean by that lol ?

First, i have no "bad faith" (except maybe in BioWare paying ANY attention to the GSF forums )

Secondly, are YOU of all people seriously trying to lecture ME about how best to make points in discussions?! That's umm, well, i'll just say that's very....umm....well , thankyou for the chuckle.

In order to view comments on Discord one has to join Discord. One does not need to join reddit, or Twitter, or even have a SWTOR account, in order to view Dev comments made on those platforms. Also, the Discord servers aren't run by BW, and are primarily ruled by the dictates of whomever runs it, not by BW's TOS and Rules of Conduct. There may be some overlap in what's considered acceptable behavior, but there also is a chance of getting kicked off of a Discord server for whatever reasons those running it decide. And, let's not pretend there isn't a certain cachet for Discard server owner(s) in having a BW employee who interacts with folks on a their Discord server. One of the ongoing things SWTOR players look for is Dev interaction.

Chris Schmidt, I read your comment in this thread that you only make official announcements on the official forum. Regardless, I stick with my original thought.

If BW employees want to go incognito on non-official Discord channels, more power to them. If BW employees want to present themselves as BW employees, I think their comments should be available for all to see.

Now lets compare how many times you posted on OFFICIAL forums in 2019-2020 vs some private discord...

You guys literally keep ignoring your paying customers, most feedback from PTS is ignored, game is broken (the amount of bugs and exploits, ruined economy and etc).

 

It just shows how BioWare doesn't care, and no wonder that Anthem has been cancelled.

I was just about to go on a rant about how full of it Chris is but I think you summed it up pretty well. I really hate how he keeps putting out post about how he cares about our opinion but then does the complete opposite.

And i don't buy the argument of "well these forums are toxic so they drove him away!" line.

 

I'll buy it! I saw many convincing sales pitches and active salesmen doing dedicated viral marketing about that line last summer and autumn, totally willing to buy as a result. These forums can be vicious to a surprising degree. Though I'm not sure how relevant or visible this undergrowth is to a BW poster who drops by once in a blue moon.

....But that isn't the only thing in heart of matters. Every word any developer ever writes here is basically a tiny post it - note nailed on a church door or something. Congregation sees it, marvels at it, reads it, misreads it, twists and bends it, responds to it, responds with their own personal off topic requests. It is bit exhausting for the person who did the nailing.

In discord, devs have at least a modest change at being part of a normal conversation. Disc servers are basically chat rooms. Everything just floats by. So whatever a dev says floats by just as well, as a part of some dynamic interaction, instead of 2000 people taking a hold of your words as if they were carved on stone table. It has a little bit better opportunity to feel like normal interaction to the dev in question. Which is prolly, you know, nice?

In order to view comments on Discord one has to join Discord. One does not need to join reddit, or Twitter, or even have a SWTOR account, in order to view Dev comments made on those platforms. Also, the Discord servers aren't run by BW, and are primarily ruled by the dictates of whomever runs it, not by BW's TOS and Rules of Conduct. There may be some overlap in what's considered acceptable behavior, but there also is a chance of getting kicked off of a Discord server for whatever reasons those running it decide. And, let's not pretend there isn't a certain cachet for Discard server owner(s) in having a BW employee who interacts with folks on a their Discord server. One of the ongoing things SWTOR players look for is Dev interaction.

 

Chris Schmidt, I read your comment in this thread that you only make official announcements on the official forum. Regardless, I stick with my original thought.

 

If BW employees want to go incognito on non-official Discord channels, more power to them. If BW employees want to present themselves as BW employees, I think their comments should be available for all to see.

You know r/swtor (reddit) isn’t run by Bioware either? So I’m not sure why you use that as an example.

And his comments are available for all to see. Just join discord and you too can read what he says.

I'll buy it! I saw many convincing sales pitches and active salesmen doing dedicated viral marketing about that line last summer and autumn, totally willing to buy as a result. These forums can be vicious to a surprising degree. Though I'm not sure how relevant or visible this undergrowth is to a BW poster who drops by once in a blue moon.

Not sure if you use discord or not, but it can be 1000x more toxic at times than here on the forums and there is no filter.

The whole “it’s too toxic on the forums for the devs” is a silly argument for anyone to make when comparing to discord channels.

I’m not saying it’s doesn’t get toxic here, but let’s be realistic in this discussion. If the toxicity that can happen on discord doesn’t drive Chris away, why would the toxicity here drive him away?

Also, I’m actually on the side of letting Chris post on discord as much as he wants. It’s become obvious to some of us that Official Bioware have a gate of some kind on communication that prevents the free flow of information. I’m assuming it’s a management decision.

I’m crossing my fingers that this thread isn’t going to jeopardise his involvement on discord.

You know r/swtor (reddit) isn’t run by Bioware either? So I’m not sure why you use that as an example.

I also have not seen a dev posting on reddit, so it's also irrelevant, but I think the point was you don't have to log in to reddit or have an invite to the sub to read what is posted. Just like I don't have a Twitter account, but I can still look at what BW posts on Twitter.

You know r/swtor (reddit) isn’t run by Bioware either? So I’m not sure why you use that as an example.

And his comments are available for all to see. Just join discord and you too can read what he says.

Trixie, my text doesn't always translate tone, so if my response seems snippy, just want to say that it isn't.

I know that /swtor reddit isn't run by BW. My quote, "One does not need to join reddit, or Twitter, or even have a SWTOR account, in order to view Dev comments made on those platforms." Not about platforms run by BW.

Yes, anyone can view Chris Schmidt's comments -- if they join Discord, and (I'm not a regular Discord user so I may be wrong) as long as they are not kicked off that Discord server. Those are the parts I'm looking at sideways. The need to sign up for a non-SWTOR service (Discord), and access to viewing the Discord comments of a BW employee at the discretion of players, not BW. Other platforms have the capability of making themselves private, however at this time the only place that is private in its way (join and be allowed to stay in order to view comments) is Discord.

I also have not seen a dev posting on reddit, so it's also irrelevant, but I think the point was you don't have to log in to reddit or have an invite to the sub to read what is posted. Just like I don't have a Twitter account, but I can still look at what BW posts on Twitter.

I've seen an occasional post on the SWTOR reddit by a BW employee. Not often, though.