Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

What happened to SWTOR? Some insight by Jeff Nyman (game tester)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion > Off-Topic
What happened to SWTOR? Some insight by Jeff Nyman (game tester)
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
09.12.2019 , 10:48 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by kodrac View Post
They also like to use EA as an excuse to say the studio is underfunded and it's a shame because the SW IP is a license to print money. They're not underfunded and they are printing money. It's how they reinvest it. They just built a new studio and recently filled newly created positions. They're not hurting for cash.
Yeah, in light of these posts, I think we can put the underfunded part to bed.

BioWare was just completely incompetent at making MMOs.

EA does share a portion of the blame - if they had not insisted that BioWare make their concept a more traditional MMO to compete with WOW, we might have gotten the original Jedi vs Sith vs the Emperor concept as a single player with multi-player aspects, and it probably would have been a much bigger hit and more fondly remembered, because that sort of thing more fits BioWare's wheelhouse and they can execute it better.

I'll give some props - some of those class stories don't feel "tacked on" at all, and in particular, the Bounty Hunter and Agent were fantastic. But it also tells me why Smuggler dragged after act 1, Trooper was just ok, and Consular also suffered. There weren't supposed to be all these class stories. It also explains why BioWare never fought for Class stories in the first place - I always assumed it was because EA installed their bean counters and the game was in a sort of soft maintenance mode. Instead, its because BioWare never wanted them in the first place, and based on their whole "we're ok if people leave" business dynamic, they probably didn't give a crap if they hemorrhaged people if that meant they were off the hook having to develop those stories.

Which is the shame, because it was what made the core game special in the eyes of many who left.

It's not an enviable situation Keith inherited.

But I am perfectly ok if they want to "relaunch" in the manner they planned to after the original core story in the original plans. I think Onslaught is essentially that anyway. It's a soft reboot of SWTOR - a chance within the game to do it again and try to get it right this time.

We'll see how this goes...

menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
09.12.2019 , 10:57 AM | #22
Honestly, why I agree on criticizing Bioware I also much more so criticize EA for not giving a **** and having piss poor micromanagement.
They basically let Bioware dick around as much as they want because they do not care about swtor in any way. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. I really wish EA didn't have their sports titles to rely on.

Edit: I also want to add that while the original idea seems cool I do like that we have 2 jedi classes and 2 sith classes. It's one of the unique things about the vanilly content that I really like. 2 jedi can be vastly different from each other in terms of skills and their duties to the republic, same with sith.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
09.12.2019 , 11:04 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by menofhorror View Post
Honestly, why I agree on criticizing Bioware I also much more so criticize EA for not giving a **** and having piss poor micromanagement.
They basically let Bioware dick around as much as they want because they do not care about swtor in any way. It puts a bad taste in my mouth. I really wish EA didn't have their sports titles to rely on.


Sorry, but this is silly to me. Because if it was the other way, you'd complain about EA micromanaging them.

This just comes off as you wanting to complain about EA, reasons be damned.

menofhorror's Avatar


menofhorror
09.12.2019 , 11:12 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post


Sorry, but this is silly to me. Because if it was the other way, you'd complain about EA micromanaging them.

This just comes off as you wanting to complain about EA, reasons be damned.
I don't condem EA for micromanaging their own studios. The publisher should have some control and plan for their studios. This approach of "just figure out a way to make a lot of money" is to me lazy and puts companies into pressure of finding new ways to suck out more money without actually getting the support to do it the right way.

Both with Andromeda and Anthem the same problem arised: Bioware wasn't being controlled enough and had the freedom to just do whatever they want for those years.It's the problem with swtor so yes Bioware needs better micromanagement.

Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
09.12.2019 , 11:30 AM | #25
Had to a chance to read this yesterday and re-read some more of it this morning. It puts a lot of things into perspective, a lot...

Bottom line: They knew very little about what it takes to develop an mmo. All of this is water under the bridge at this point though. If they want this game to flourish they need to listen to their customer base, which it appears they're finally doing indicated by their responses on the PTS forums.
The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
09.12.2019 , 12:11 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TonyTricicolo View Post
I find it weird that Star Wars in general always a hard time with games. The IP's track history, with a few exceptions, always had rocky times. You would think with the plethora of source material ranging from canon, EU/Legends, and Disney that it would produce "GOLD" but sadly it doesn't. Companies always seem to be either out of touch with the lore or out of touch with the fans. Companies want to make money. Investors want their return as fast as possible. This supersedes everything else. Will we ever get a good Star Wars game? Is it so hard? If it were any other franchise and done by a start up/independent company, I'd say there's a good chance. However, this is the hand we're dealt.
Said it before, say it again. The SW fanbase is huge and diverse. Everyone can find something unique about it that draws them to it, because the world is huge and appealing. As such, it causes a wide range of opinions about everything related to its unwritten history and future. This is a huge reason yhat you can take Episode 8 discussions from one end of the spectrum to the other. Anything involving SW since the original 3 will be met with a variety of different expectations, and will always be an impossible task of satisfying everyone thats remotely interested. You even said it yourself - everything thats been touched with SW has had hard times meeting its potential for success.

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
09.12.2019 , 12:19 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
Had to a chance to read this yesterday and re-read some more of it this morning. It puts a lot of things into perspective, a lot...

Bottom line: They knew very little about what it takes to develop an mmo. All of this is water under the bridge at this point though. If they want this game to flourish they need to listen to their customer base, which it appears they're finally doing indicated by their responses on the PTS forums.
I agree.

And I also think the loot system that everyone was freaking out about is them trying to get the "MMO" thing right, but not exactly certain on how to do it. So they are making their mistakes, but the GOOD thing is, they are willing to make them on the PTS, and then listen to and digest feedback from people testing, and adjust course, whereas in the past, they would have ignored it and gone full speed ahead with what the studio wants.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
09.12.2019 , 12:32 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
I agree.

And I also think the loot system that everyone was freaking out about is them trying to get the "MMO" thing right, but not exactly certain on how to do it. So they are making their mistakes, but the GOOD thing is, they are willing to make them on the PTS, and then listen to and digest feedback from people testing, and adjust course, whereas in the past, they would have ignored it and gone full speed ahead with what the studio wants.
Well, it would have been easier on them and the players if they actually learned from the past though, right? I mean why do players have to rage about the amount of RNG that's in the 6.0 gearing system?

The other part of 6.0 that worries me is when it gets coded in. I can't help it, but I really worry about the bugs that potentially will be unleashed with 6.0, seeing just how much stuff they are redoing again.

Not to start a different topic but seeing how rough it's been for them to add in new code on top of old code, well, I have some concerns about this.

So, not only is there cause to be concerned about the actual gameplay changes, there's the technical side of things, too. In this regard I feel for the devs having to try to fit in yet another piece of new code with what is already in the game.

If they could just take the good from past gearing systems and altered parts that were not so good, wouldn't that be easier than re-inventing the wheel so-to-speak? That's the mystifying part of their process for me anyway.
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Celise's Avatar


Celise
09.12.2019 , 12:50 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
Just for (imo) an interesting read, anyone wondering how we ended up in this mess might find what Kryptonomic wrote months ago on the forums. Krypto was an actual game tester and even worked on SWTOR at one point. (TL ; DR)
A few things like individual job positions i didn't know about but the overall context i had already suspected years ago through various developers and a few tid bits here and there, i filled in the rest myself using my head in assuptions. so i'm not at all surprised there was some "internal problems" going on which is essentially what it boils down to in not so many words.

So as far as Krypto's comments are concerned? most of it is his opinion from his own point of view, there is no way to tell if it is truth or bias on his part, whatever the case the majority of the comments relate to what he thinks is going on which is different from what actually went on, so all we get is this view point and this view point alone.

Trouble is it isn't enough to confirm or deny anything without Bioware explaining themselves to get a balanced point of view and a former tester possibly with a chip on his shoulder could have a personal bias, who knows.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
09.12.2019 , 12:55 PM | #30 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
Just because this gets raised on occasion I wanted to jump in to the thread. The individual you are referencing is not a current or former employee of EA or BioWare and so I would caution insinuation of any internal knowledge here.

Going to move the thread to off-topic. Thanks all.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook
[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]