gabarooni Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Not the Only path. Solo players should have their own line of progression just like Raiders do. From all the info ive ever read about current crop of MMO's soloes and casuals populate MMO's by 80% or more then Raiders. So why is the only endgame progression path set aside for 20% of the pop or less? This isn't a rant about getting everything without effort. I would LOVE to have something to put some effort into that dosent involve relying on 8 other people. All im saying is that MMO's esp SWTOR (Cause thats the one im playing) Should have an endgame path of progresion for solo and casual players that will span or almost span the scope of the current patch until they get new content with the next update patch, just like raiders do. Some people have posted ideas about solo instances that reward gear with presence stat on it, I would take this one step further and make Ops gear have it's own specialty stat also. Lets seperate Ops and PvE, that way at endgame there could be 3 forms of progression for people to choose from Ops, PvP, or PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Statistics on solo vs group gamers are heavily skewed by the fact that there are almost no MMOs which cater to, or even provide options for, group players. It's like saying 90% of all customers at Joe's Seafood prefer seafood, therefore 90% of people who eat prefer seafood. Edited May 20, 2013 by CosmicKat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) We really needed another thread on this? Let's say you can somehow get gear that's better than what you can get now via Elite commendations (L69 purples) which are dead nuts simple to get via solo and limited group play. What are you going to do with it? Where are you going to go? What is your activity? Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenify Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Not the Only path. Solo players should have their own line of progression just like Raiders do. From all the info ive ever read about current crop of MMO's soloes and casuals populate MMO's by 80% or more then Raiders. So why is the only endgame progression path set aside for 20% of the pop or less? This isn't a rant about getting everything without effort. I would LOVE to have something to put some effort into that dosent involve relying on 8 other people. All im saying is that MMO's esp SWTOR (Cause thats the one im playing) Should have an endgame path of progresion for solo and casual players that will span or almost span the scope of the current patch until they get new content with the next update patch, just like raiders do. Some people have posted ideas about solo instances that reward gear with presence stat on it, I would take this one step further and make Ops gear have it's own specialty stat also. Lets seperate Ops and PvE, that way at endgame there could be 3 forms of progression for people to choose from Ops, PvP, or PvE. I accept this, let's add 1 ultimate commendation to contain and control weekly. That should take a little longer than raiding but you can solo it so who cares. Edited May 20, 2013 by Greenify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gabarooni Posted May 20, 2013 Author Share Posted May 20, 2013 We really needed another thread on this? Let's say you can somehow get gear that's better than what you can get now via Elite commendations (L69 purples) which are dead nuts simple to get via solo and limited group play. What are you going to do with it? Where are you going to go? What is your activity? It's about having something fun and rewarding to do when I log in w/o being forced to raid or pvp. Im not just saying GIVE ME GEAR! Im saying there should be rewarding endgame content that isn't pvp or raiding. Us solo/caual players wouldnt be looking for ways to upgrade our gear w/o doing raids if we had CONTENT that we could do at endgame that is rewarding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uziforyou Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 We really needed another thread on this? Let's say you can somehow get gear that's better than what you can get now via Elite commendations (L69 purples) which are dead nuts simple to get via solo and limited group play. What are you going to do with it? Where are you going to go? What is your activity? I agree with you on the ability to get elite comm gear solo although I wouldn't characterize it as being "dead nuts simple" or as least any simpler than people running in groups. But your questions aren't really fair either. People strive to aquire things all the time that they really have no use for. The act of striving for and aquiring them is the end goal all in itself. Why should this be different in a game? You infer that wanting something you can't use isn't logical? Perhaps so, but then human beings are only rarely logical and almost never in games as one can surmise by simply reading the subject lines of many SWTOR forum posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) It's about having something fun and rewarding to do when I log in w/o being forced to raid or pvp. Im not just saying GIVE ME GEAR! Im saying there should be rewarding endgame content that isn't pvp or raiding. Us solo/caual players wouldnt be looking for ways to upgrade our gear w/o doing raids if we had CONTENT that we could do at endgame that is rewarding. So you're asking for something to do, not for gear. So the title of your post, "Grouping should be a quicker path to the best gear." which suggests the post is about getting gear, is misleading? I'm with you if you're asking for more stuff to do! Hopefully the super-secretive 2.2 patch will do that for us. I agree with you on the ability to get elite comm gear solo although I wouldn't characterize it as being "dead nuts simple" or as least any simpler than people running in groups. But your questions aren't really fair either. People strive to aquire things all the time that they really have no use for. The act of striving for and aquiring them is the end goal all in itself. Why should this be different in a game? You infer that wanting something you can't use isn't logical? Perhaps so, but then human beings are only rarely logical and almost never in games as one can surmise by simply reading the subject lines of many SWTOR forum posts. Oh, it's dead nuts simple. I started playing the expansion, ran a few flashpoints, ran some dailies and weeklies on Makeb and all of a sudden most of my gear has L69 purples in it. I wasn't even trying for that. It wasn't a goal. It just happened as I played the game. Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilora Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 It's about having something fun and rewarding to do when I log in w/o being forced to raid or pvp. Im not just saying GIVE ME GEAR! Im saying there should be rewarding endgame content that isn't pvp or raiding. Us solo/caual players wouldnt be looking for ways to upgrade our gear w/o doing raids if we had CONTENT that we could do at endgame that is rewarding. Alright. PvPers and Raiders are saying the same thing. MMO -- Massively Multiplayer Online. Incase you didn't know. Solo players WILL NOT be catered to. I've yet to see a game that actually has -- so I doubt you'll ever see an MMO that goes against the entire Genre. Go play an RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 We really needed another thread on this? Let's say you can somehow get gear that's better than what you can get now via Elite commendations (L69 purples) which are dead nuts simple to get via solo and limited group play. What are you going to do with it? Where are you going to go? What is your activity? Why do you care what other people do or don't do with whatever it is they're trying to get ? Who are you to judge their motives and dismiss them because you think they're not worthy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Why do you care what other people do or don't do with whatever it is they're trying to get ? Who are you to judge their motives and dismiss them because you think they're not worthy ? Try reading less into the question and putting fewer words into my mouth. Try answering the question instead. There's actually a point to it, and the point is an important one. Edited May 20, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatology Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 What do you call dailies for basic comms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Alright. PvPers and Raiders are saying the same thing. MMO -- Massively Multiplayer Online. Incase you didn't know. Solo players WILL NOT be catered to. I've yet to see a game that actually has -- so I doubt you'll ever see an MMO that goes against the entire Genre. Go play an RPG. Umm, TOR caters nearly exclusively to solo gamers for 50 levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilora Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) Umm, TOR caters nearly exclusively to solo gamers for 50 levels. As do most games, prior to cap level (that aren't sandboxs). TOR does it to a much better level. But, you're proving my point -- I just am not very eloquent with words. 1-50 = incredible solo play. 1-55 = decent solo play. And then you're done. I don't think solo players deserve more -- because they already got better content, and 8X the content, that PvPers and Raiders got. Edited May 20, 2013 by Kilora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Umm, TOR caters nearly exclusively to solo gamers for 50 levels. 55. Does a nice job of it, too. I think that's one of the neater aspects of this game. It seems to support a wide variety of play-styles. Some better than others, but solo, group, and PvP all seem to be covered and seem to get some sort of attention on a fairly regular basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) MMO -- Massively Multiplayer Online. Incase you didn't know. Solo players WILL NOT be catered to. I've yet to see a game that actually has -- so I doubt you'll ever see an MMO that goes against the entire Genre. /Agree, up to a point That said, modern MMOs for the most part do however leave sufficient pathways and content for solo players to enjoy solo play when that's what they want to do. So, while MMOs will centerline to group content for the most part, none of them actually ignore the solo player when balancing their content. Besides... you don't solo in this game. You pick and use a companion (from a stable of companions) for your "solo" play. It's a bit unique as an MMO in that regard. Companions may banter, and shoot their pie holes off, but they don't argue, drop from your group, or ninja the lootz from you. Edited May 20, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjonxb Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 .... How many threads are you going to start about this? We had this one today We got this one 2 days ago WHICH IS STILL ACTIVE http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=640657 We got this one yesterday which again, is still active http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=640995 There are a few other threads that you have which basically boil down to the same thing. All from the last week. You don't want to raid or pvp. You want something else to do for end game. You want end game gear. I understand your frustration. The vast majority of MMO's out there. This is the focus. You do the story(if there is one) to cap level. Then you start raiding or pvp. It is not going to change anytime soon. but making more then 1 thread in a couple days is bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilora Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 /Agree, up to a point That said, modern MMOs for the most part do however leave sufficient pathways and content for solo players to enjoy solo play when that's what they want to do. So, while MMOs will centerline to group content for the most part, none of them actually ignore the solo player when balancing their content. Besides... you don't solo in this game. You pick and use a companion (from a stable of companions) for your "solo" play. It's a bit unique as an MMO in that regard. Companions may banter, and shoot their pie holes off, but they don't argue, drop from your group, or ninja the lootz from you. I could've said it much better than my post -- I meant, in continued updates, they don't cater to solo players. We won't see massive work done on a "solo" progression, and none done for PvP/Group/Raid content. In fact, that is probably why this game had such a rocky start. Too many people rushed through all of the solo content, realized how little there was for PvP and raiding, and left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Not the Only path. Solo players should have their own line of progression just like Raiders do. From all the info ive ever read about current crop of MMO's soloes and casuals populate MMO's by 80% or more then Raiders. So why is the only endgame progression path set aside for 20% of the pop or less? This isn't a rant about getting everything without effort. I would LOVE to have something to put some effort into that dosent involve relying on 8 other people. All im saying is that MMO's esp SWTOR (Cause thats the one im playing) Should have an endgame path of progresion for solo and casual players that will span or almost span the scope of the current patch until they get new content with the next update patch, just like raiders do. Some people have posted ideas about solo instances that reward gear with presence stat on it, I would take this one step further and make Ops gear have it's own specialty stat also. Lets seperate Ops and PvE, that way at endgame there could be 3 forms of progression for people to choose from Ops, PvP, or PvE. The gear available at end game is better than solo quality because you need a group to complete the instance. The harder the instance, the better the loot. You need huge stats when going up against instance bosses. Solo players do not need those stats. While I agree some new solo content would be nice, there is no way that you should get parity with someone doing 16 mans while doing solo content, even if that solo content is hard. Hard solo content should get you some good gear, but it shouldn't get you the best gear. That's what HM FP's and Ops are for. Another thing to consider is development resources. We have a few dev teams working on specific sections of the game. The folks doing our expansions are giving us quest hubs, FP's and hopefully operations. If we re-task them with creating solo player instances that give rewards similar to FP's and operations, then those resources are gone. While a lot of players would appreciate new solo content, I am pretty sure they wouldn't want to sacrifice their standard game update with such a niche request. Anywho, if they're able to make it happen without sacrificing further content, then great, let's make it happen. If not, well then, sorry for your troubles, Fallout 3 is ------> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 55. Does a nice job of it, too. I think that's one of the neater aspects of this game. It seems to support a wide variety of play-styles. Some better than others, but solo, group, and PvP all seem to be covered and seem to get some sort of attention on a fairly regular basis. Compared to what? I'll agree that TOR does a good job at providing a solo experience but the group side of the equation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in an MMO. Not so much the quality of the group missions, most are good, but the implementation of it is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zImperium Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Sorry, the best gear is always going to come from working together...it is called an MMO... If you wish to get the best gear in the game, you'll need to group up and participate, and be social. If you're talking about getting gear through levelling, then be prepared to be amazed: Use Planetary commendations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 Compared to what? I'll agree that TOR does a good job at providing a solo experience but the group side of the equation is pretty much the worst I've ever seen in an MMO. Not so much the quality of the group missions, most are good, but the implementation of it is terrible. The flashpoints are good. Better than my latest reference, which is WoW. They have a bit of range to their mechanics. There's relatively little trash to wade through and sometimes there's some interesting stuff around the trash that makes it something other than "wade in and kill them". Most of them require only a modest time commitment (though some are unbearably long). Heck, they've even put repair droids in many of them. Nice QOL. Quality to it is good. Quantity, well, we could always consume more, couldn't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicKat Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 The flashpoints are good. Better than my latest reference, which is WoW. They have a bit of range to their mechanics. There's relatively little trash to wade through and sometimes there's some interesting stuff around the trash that makes it something other than "wade in and kill them". Most of them require only a modest time commitment (though some are unbearably long). Heck, they've even put repair droids in many of them. Nice QOL. Quality to it is good. Quantity, well, we could always consume more, couldn't we? I was referring more to Heroics. It seems like the vast majority of players completely ignore them. That is a clear indicator of terrible implementation. Never seen an MMO where you can have 100+ players in a zone and it is near impossible to get 4 players who want to do the group content in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 I was referring more to Heroics. It seems like the vast majority of players completely ignore them. That is a clear indicator of terrible implementation. Never seen an MMO where you can have 100+ players in a zone and it is near impossible to get 4 players who want to do the group content in it. Oh, the planetary heroics? Agree completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanktest Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) It's about having something fun and rewarding to do when I log in w/o being forced to raid or pvp. Im not just saying GIVE ME GEAR! Im saying there should be rewarding endgame content that isn't pvp or raiding. Us solo/caual players wouldnt be looking for ways to upgrade our gear w/o doing raids if we had CONTENT that we could do at endgame that is rewarding. I agree Fully with you on this well because at one time in my MMO playing which I started back in 1989, I worked then and could only play on the weekends. SO when I would log into EQ 1 unless my friends were on I really never got much done . that Said . Un till the hard care players has to work , or real live limits his/her play time they are gonna be against solo players getting any kind of good gear .. I don't work now and play pretty much all day and enjoy OPS and solo both . But I have 69s or better, it's a blast to solo in high end gear , they won't admit it be cause well it goes against there stance on this subject. , Yea ,I have run a few HM OPS And killed the bosses have the Ach to prove it . . BUT, agree , there should be a solo path for gear or raid gear, if you want to call it that, just make it harder to get . I don't like putting a name on gear other then its PVE or PVP . Edited May 20, 2013 by tanktest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanktest Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 (edited) I was referring more to Heroics. It seems like the vast majority of players completely ignore them. That is a clear indicator of terrible implementation. Never seen an MMO where you can have 100+ players in a zone and it is near impossible to get 4 players who want to do the group content in it. you sure if I need one done all I do is spam LFM in about 10 sec I must have 10 tells . In fact I turn down groups a lot id rather solo till I need a group. I get the solo stuff done faster for me on my own time. Edited May 20, 2013 by tanktest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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