I am positing this question, not as a QQ, but as a genuine question. What, exactly is the purpose of Shadows in PVP? As Infiltration spec, we don't hit nearly as hard as the Ops/Scoundrels I've seen. We don't last as long outside of stealth as other melee. I try and go after healers or ranged standing the outskirts of a fight, if anything to keep them from healing/turreting. However, many healers can outlast my burst and buy enough time to get help ( or their team is on the ball with peeling for them), and ranged specs, like many classes, have CC aplenty to keep me outside of my 4 meter sweetspot. I can kick casts, use stuns, keep them snared, but it's all for naught as I don't really have the damage to put them down/apply pressure.

 

I'm a sliver from 50. At this point, compared to other classes, Shadows feel pretty underwhelming. Any thoughts, tips, advice?

I generally have felt the same. I'm a new born 50, got one piece of champion gear and some high level mods in my orange gear. I DO NOT burst well. I find that I'm better at sustained DPS, which is not something PvP is condusive to.

 

That being said, when I play with two other guildies (a healer and a scoundrel) I drop into force technique (defensive stance ) and shield the scoundrel. The healer and I then do our darndest to keep the scoundrel up. Since he's doing the dps.

 

I've had some excellent fights in Alderran doing this. I love the synergy implied with the abilities. Though singularly I am not a threat to anyone. Mostly just a huge annoyance.

Stealth capping objectives

Use your knockdown

Backstab gives me 3.7k crits

clairvoyant strike UPS your Dps a ton

12 second slow

 

Sorry, but I pwn in pvp. 1v1 I can kill mostly anyone my level. I can stealth around and cause havoc. I can CC and knockdown from stealth. I can protect others, I can get some insanely high single Target DPS.

 

Shadows are great in pvp.

I too feel confused about this class's purpose, when I (lvl 40) was "tank" specd (after trying my damnedest) in wz's I did at most 70-80k dmg and lasted about only 5secds when focused by range dps, now I'm infiltration and at most do 100-110k dmg. I am used to always taking out healers and ranged dps as a rouge type class, but any healer or ranged class just put up thier shields ignoring me and my dmg long enough that my team mates in the center of the battle are wiped out or now outnumbered. So as a "tank" you can't really keep enemy players agro long enough to matter, as "dps" it's hard to do any significant amount of dmg to main targets who pretty much see us as flys on thier back. And I know it's not just me as I keep track of other shadows stats in wz's and not to toot my own horn, but I would say I do better then most other shadows 85% of the time in general. Which if I feel almost useless, then how must they feel?

Stealth capping objectives

Use your knockdown

Backstab gives me 3.7k crits

clairvoyant strike UPS your Dps a ton

12 second slow

 

Sorry, but I pwn in pvp. 1v1 I can kill mostly anyone my level. I can stealth around and cause havoc. I can CC and knockdown from stealth. I can protect others, I can get some insanely high single Target DPS.

 

Shadows are great in pvp.

 

3.7k crits...I see Ops/Scoundrels...hell, pretty much everyone else gets crits like those, while with better survivability/healing/etc. Backstab is horribly inefficient, especially given the innate lag and ability delay in WZs right now. I've actually spammed Backstab on a Sorc and he outhealed it, while being interrupted/stunned. It's a one trick pony that more often than not hits for 1100-1200 and now you're out in the open and they're laughing at you.

 

I use Low Slash and Spinning Kick all the time, to set up what, exactly? Our massive burst damage? Sure, if the target is below our level. Equal level and gear though? Not so much.I just feel at a loss, like I should have rolled something else. Ops/Scoundrels do the whole "harassment from stealth" thing much better than we do. We're a poor, non-ranged facsimile of them at the moment.

If you don't just look at killing people we are the unsung heroes of all the warzones.

 

 

Sprint, Stealth, multiple stuns, aoe knockback, Force Cloak, Ranged DPS with stun (Even longer distance with Champion 4/4 set bonus), AOE interrupt with Combat Technique Force Breach, guard, taunting etc etc.

 

The Best skill yet though... The Mind Maze OOC CC. I will share a trick here but you have NO idea how many times it has won Voidstar and Civil war matches. If you Mind Maze a single defender at an objective, they will almost ALWAYS pop their lengthy cool down skill to get out of it instantly, its instinct to do so really. Then you just hit em again instantly with Mind Maze and they have to stand there and watch you single handily cap an objective without even doing a single point of damage. In Voidstar our guild's strat is everyone right or left and just me left, we as a class are just that good with that CC in our quickbar.

 

The same goes for defending Voidstar. If the attackers get a door open, you can pop Force Cloak, Whirlwind one target, Low blow another, force stun yet another and hope for a project stun on yet another, then knockback at the chokepoint. You just shutdown half their team for long enough to get your crew in place to prevent them from rushing terminals.

 

Don't forget Combat Technique. I have held doors solo from being opened by multiple people at the same time using just Force Breech in Combat Technique. Its a mean ability! With Force Technique its an almost 20 second DoT as well! Popping it on a single offender before you die will allow enough time for your buddies to get out of the gate hopefully to finish the task.

 

If you want medals as well, we have just about everything except healing to get top ranks. If you are Biochem you get 2 with the Epic medpack, using guard on a lowbie is another and spamming Mass Mindcontrol will net you a ton of protection. 10 Medals is not difficult in a civil war match with Infiltration.

 

While some of the other classes will without question out damage us, we are the Swiss army knife of warzone, we have so much to offer each warzone, you just have to enjoy winning over getting top Damage done.

Thanks for the post Reph. I guess I am just not keen on being the errand boy of the WZ, lol. I do many of the things you're talking about. Mind Maze especially. I just get annoyed because I feel helpless when someone focuses on me. I can Force Cloak and run, pretty much. Because pretty much anyone can put out more damage, and take more damage than I can. Sure, sometimes I take someone out, but it's rarely a clean getaway like I see other classes manage. I'll blow all my stuns, CCs interrupts, damage mitigation to win a 1v1 and then get blown away by someone following up. Meanwhile, I see Marauders, Ops, Sorcs, BHs etc etc running amok in WZs right now, not only being tactically useful, but being lethal. I'm just wondering when/where our lethality comes into play.

Our biggest advantage isn't our damage, but our utility. Nobody should pvp alone in a wz, and in a group we really shine. I can remove all debuffs and vanish if it gets too sports, easily get enemies off of friends who are being focused, and bust out some huge single target burst when needed. I can't count how many times I've won a wz for the team cause im the only one assaulting doors or capping turrets. And don't forget stealthing in the endzone for huttball passes. May not be the best alone, but we are invaluable as part of a team.

Our biggest advantage isn't our damage, but our utility. Nobody should pvp alone in a wz, and in a group we really shine. I can remove all debuffs and vanish if it gets too sports, easily get enemies off of friends who are being focused, and bust out some huge single target burst when needed. I can't count how many times I've won a wz for the team cause im the only one assaulting doors or capping turrets. And don't forget stealthing in the endzone for huttball passes. May not be the best alone, but we are invaluable as part of a team.

 

Not knock you or anything, but what class doesn't do better with a team, and for that matter what stealth dps class can't do a better job at all those things?

Not knock you or anything, but what class doesn't do better with a team, and for that matter what stealth dps class can't do a better job at all those things?

 

You're free to roll an easier class....ill keep dominating as a shadow.

I'm doing very well soloing in Ilum.

 

 

In Warzones, I'm with my group and my role is obviously to kill ^^ Further, I migrate the damage on our healer with taunts and slow grenates. I do well at solo defending objectives in stealth as well as taking them (mind maze solo defenders etc.)

 

In Huttball, i stealth behind enemy lines so my teammates can pass the ball.

And I know it's not just me as I keep track of other shadows stats in wz's and not to toot my own horn, but I would say I do better then most other shadows 85% of the time in general. Which if I feel almost useless, then how must they feel?

Hmm, if you're just doing 100k-110k in damage as a DPS Infiltration spec, you're likely doing something wrong. Even without PvP gear, I (as a fairly average Shadow tbh) was doing more damage than that when I was put on a bad team or spent much of the match outside of the main action (defending a turret on Alderaan, frequently being the ball carrier in Hutt Ball, etc.). With an ok team (AKA you're not getting focused all the time), a decent (and decently geared) Shadow should be able to put up at least 200k damage.

 

3.7k crits...I see Ops/Scoundrels...hell, pretty much everyone else gets crits like those, while with better survivability/healing/etc. Backstab is horribly inefficient, especially given the innate lag and ability delay in WZs right now. I've actually spammed Backstab on a Sorc and he outhealed it, while being interrupted/stunned. It's a one trick pony that more often than not hits for 1100-1200 and now you're out in the open and they're laughing at you.

In regards to 3.7k crits, I suggest you look at everyone's biggest hit after each WZ. I guarantee you that most of the people in the warzone will have a biggest hit lower than that, most likely in the 2k range.

 

As for "backstab" (Shadow Strike) spamming, this also means you're doing something wrong. You should not be opening with or using Shadow Strike if your Find Weakness has not proc'd. The force usage to damage ratio simply is not worth it. Clairvoyant Strike has a better ratio with the additional benefit of adding +15% damage to project (stacks twice). That, in my opinion, is a much better opener, and will in turn give Find Weakness a chance of proc'ing.

 

A sorcerer is not that hard to beat in a 1v1 if you have the jump on him. It obviously isn't a piece of cake, either, but we have enough CC and an interrupt with a fairly short cooldown (10s for Infiltration Shadows) to manage the situation. In fact, any 1v1 should be manageable if you get the jump on the person. People engaging you whilst you're out of stealth around 30m or Ops/Scoundrels from stealth, however, is an entirely different story. That will be a much tougher fight to win.

 

I use Low Slash and Spinning Kick all the time, to set up what, exactly? Our massive burst damage? Sure, if the target is below our level. Equal level and gear though? Not so much.I just feel at a loss, like I should have rolled something else. Ops/Scoundrels do the whole "harassment from stealth" thing much better than we do. We're a poor, non-ranged facsimile of them at the moment.

I'll admit that an Infiltration Shadow isn't as straightforward of a class as it probably appeared when you chose it (I certainly wasn't expecting it to play like it does), but I do find it to be a very powerful class that has good sustained damage, very good burst occasionally (every 1.25-1.5 minutes), and lots of useful CC (low slash, force stun, force wave, force slow, mind maze, etc.). The damage is not as high as an Op/Scoundrel, but we do have more options once a fight is in progress, rather than just coming out of stealth. Just as an Op/Scoundrel can annihilate us coming out of stealth (if you don't force cloak or pop resilience/deflection right off the bat), we too can absolutely destroy them if we get the drop on them.

 

As for our burst, I am assuming that you're making use of force potency when it is available? Clairvoyant Strike x2 -> Project -> Force Potency (before the projectile hits) -> Force Breach is an incredible source of burst, and in all likelihood your Find Weakness will have proc'd during it, giving you even more damage (with an increased crit chance from Force Synergy). To top it all off, you've got Spinning Strike as the person will likely be below 30%. I can't tell you how many times I've absolutely decimated opponents using this.

 

Anyways, I'm rambling now, but my point is this: an Infiltration Shadow is very powerful, both in terms of damage and utility in PvP. It is not, however, a backstabbing machine that many Shadows play it as. It also isn't a tank as a Kinetic Shadow is, thus you have to take preventative measures if you don't want to be focus fired in no time (sometimes it just can't be helped). Pay attention to your procs, know when and how to utilize CC, and know when to swallow your pride and Force Cloak on out of there. Don't forget to use your cooldowns either. I know of many Shadows that completely forget about Resilience, Blackout, Deflection, Force Potency, Battle Readiness, etc.

 

Anyways, enough rambling. Try out another class if you wish, but I guarantee you that you can have success as a Shadow if you stick with it and work to learn the class. I still have a long ways to go, but I know I have significantly improved from what I've learned on the forums.

Our biggest advantage isn't our damage, but our utility. Nobody should pvp alone in a wz, and in a group we really shine. I can remove all debuffs and vanish if it gets too sports, easily get enemies off of friends who are being focused, and bust out some huge single target burst when needed. I can't count how many times I've won a wz for the team cause im the only one assaulting doors or capping turrets. And don't forget stealthing in the endzone for huttball passes. May not be the best alone, but we are invaluable as part of a team.

 

I strongly agree with this. To the gentleman who said "Who isn't good with a team?" I would like to point out that there is never a time you do not have a team in a warzone. As a class, shadows are awfully useful. Stealth is hardly necessary for us, it is almost exclusively a tool (since we don't have smuggler/Op openers)

 

As infiltration, your goal isn't to roll in, 4 shot a dude and leave (Though with proper target selection and trinketing, it's not -that- difficult), your role is to harass. Find a healer and stick to them like glue. Our Burst dps is fantastic, yes, but so is our pretty high sustained DPS in between our burst cycles. With enough crit/surge you can keep the pressure on a healer and force them to move (Which, in many cases, means they aren't healing as much) or force them to heal themselves (Which means that remarkably irritating Jugger/Guardian isn't getting heals.)

 

As KC/Balance you become this ridiculously efficient point defender. The Force in Balance and your pure durability enables you to keep an alderaan point for an exceptionally great amount of time.

 

People play Shadows because they want options and utility. People play scoundrels because they want to shotgun people in the back. They all but require stealth to be able to burst as hard as they do, I just need a target.

Again, thanks for insights everyone. For the record Jinx, I don't spam SS per se, I know it's pretty terrible as far as cost per damage ratio. I was trying it out, and of course it proved that it......was pretty inefficient,ha ha.

Pure Infil specs are relative garbage in WZ's since other classes DPS better than you. It's more of a utility spec, but you don't get trophies for objectives; and the hybrid builds are just as useful in that regard. That said, the Upheavil infil spec is probably the least bad.

The Shadow is what I would consider to be a more advanced class requiring more skill to play effectively. It's not straight forward really. The Shadow's role is not very well defined because it is versatile. You can get in the thick of it and brawl on a pretty sustained level, or you can burst down a critical target and disappear before you get focused, or you can ninja objectives. Either way, it's a really reactive class. You won't always be playing the same way... it depends on the situation you're in. Sometimes you'll need to move around the map and other times you'll be better off stealth defending an objective. It's basically a matter of learning what to do and when to do it so you can best serve your team a win.

 

I feel like I dominate on my Shadow... and I play really differently depending on my situation. If I try to lock myself in to doing one particular thing during a warzone, I will likely fail. I have to always have the mentality that I am going to see what the team needs and then adjust my play accordingly. I love it when I'm grouped up with people for PvP and they always ask me at the beginning of the round "which way you going?" My answer is always the same... "that depends on where everyone else goes!"

 

If you're the type of player that starts a round of Voidstar thinking "I'm going to the left door" before the round even starts and you don't know where everyone else is... then you're not the kind of player who will have a lot of success as a Shadow.

 

To improve, you simply need to adopt the mentality that you're versatile and that you must adapt to the situation you're in. That's really the key to success with this class.

Pure Infil specs are relative garbage in WZ's since other classes DPS better than you. It's more of a utility spec, but you don't get trophies for objectives; and the hybrid builds are just as useful in that regard. That said, the Upheavil infil spec is probably the least bad.

 

Pure Infiltration specs in warzones are only as garbage as the player behind the keyboard makes it.

Pure Infiltration specs in warzones are only as garbage as the player behind the keyboard makes it.

 

Cop-out/denial answer, surely I must be bad if I don't like the spec.

Upheaval Infil has insane burst potential, especially if you use Project's delayed animation to your advantage. If you open on someone (use your preferred opener, shadow strike/spinning kick/force slow/clairvoyant strike), clairvoyant strikex2, and then potency>project>force breach, the Project and Force Breach will hit at nearly the exact same time, plus if you proc upheaval that's even more burst.

 

With my surge Relic and power stim up I've seen Project/Breach crits of 5.5k each, add an upheaval proc/crit to that and you've got an INSANE amount of damage. Not to mention that shadow strike with the proc up will crit for 4k+ easily, and spinning strike even higher.

 

At 50 with PvP gear our damage is just as good, and our burst is more reliable than Op/Scoundrel as it doesn't require stealth at all. Also, in 1v1 situations don't be afraid to use low slash to create some breathing room, regen force, or even cast a Mind Crush.

 

Make sure you're using both your taunts constantly in group PvP as well, 30% damage reduction to all your teammates even for 6 seconds is amazing.

Stealth capping objectives

Use your knockdown

Backstab gives me 3.7k crits

clairvoyant strike UPS your Dps a ton

12 second slow

 

Sorry, but I pwn in pvp. 1v1 I can kill mostly anyone my level. I can stealth around and cause havoc. I can CC and knockdown from stealth. I can protect others, I can get some insanely high single Target DPS.

 

Shadows are great in pvp.

 

I am the same way... I stream me pvping and you can talk to my viewers, i don't lose... I can 1 v 1 just about any class and i do INSANE bursts and high crits.... I love my shadow pvp and the only other class i would roll would be a Sith Marauder, but once again I love my shadow. Then again, I'm full champion PVP gear.For those of you who feel otherwise, its the player not the class. Feel free to watch me anytime, here's my link http://www.justin.tv/dfsyn

I am the same way... I stream me pvping and you can talk to my viewers, i don't lose... I can 1 v 1 just about any class and i do INSANE bursts and high crits.... I love my shadow pvp and the only other class i would roll would be a Sith Marauder, but once again I love my shadow. Then again, I'm full champion PVP gear.For those of you who feel otherwise, its the player not the class. Feel free to watch me anytime, here's my link http://www.justin.tv/dfsyn

 

No one cares about how good you claim to be, you offered absolutely nothing of worth to this thread. Please shut up.

 

Infiltration spec Shadow seems comparatively weak. I don't really buy the nonsense of utility. Seems like that should be geared more towards Kinetic or Balance than Infiltration. After all, if you spec into a DPS tree it's fair to assume that you should be doing DPS, especially since a lot of the 'utility' is comparably laughable when matched up against other ACs.

 

Seems to me like they just weren't really certain which direction to take Shadow in PvP and this is the result. The fact that you don't see any 'SHADOW IS OP!!!!' posts is a sad reminder of just how weak the Shadow truly is. Across all of the servers and the millions of warzones not one player has felt that Shadows were outrageous, no matter how bad they were

hm, I, by no means 50lvl, actually it's 13. lol. But my total damage in warzones is ~80-100k... so.. I dont know why you complaining)

No one cares about how good you claim to be, you offered absolutely nothing of worth to this thread. Please shut up.

 

Infiltration spec Shadow seems comparatively weak. I don't really buy the nonsense of utility. Seems like that should be geared more towards Kinetic or Balance than Infiltration. After all, if you spec into a DPS tree it's fair to assume that you should be doing DPS, especially since a lot of the 'utility' is comparably laughable when matched up against other ACs.

 

Seems to me like they just weren't really certain which direction to take Shadow in PvP and this is the result. The fact that you don't see any 'SHADOW IS OP!!!!' posts is a sad reminder of just how weak the Shadow truly is. Across all of the servers and the millions of warzones not one player has felt that Shadows were outrageous, no matter how bad they were

 

lol your a *********** *******... this thread was asking if shadow pvp is gimped and i was simply stating that it wasnt... the fact that you think it is means your a terrible *********** player... learn to play your class or shut up and reroll something else... Infiltration is a good well rounded class... i love the fact that i can crit for high numbers and im not just hack and slashing **** the entire time... if you want to do that roll a sentinel or marauder.. We are Jedi Counselor's not Jedi Knights, we use a combination of lightsaber skills enfused w/ force skills...The most damage i've done in a warzone is 381k... That's more dmg then i've seen some ****n Jedi sentinels and Sith Marauders do... EVEN INQUISITORS! i love it, you blow. /thread

Edited January 8, 2012 by DF-Syn

lol your a *********** *******... this thread was asking if shadow pvp is gimped and i was simply stating that it wasnt... the fact that you think it is means your a terrible *********** player... learn to play your class or shut up and reroll something else... Infiltration is a good well rounded class... i love the fact that i can crit for high numbers and im not just hack and slashing **** the entire time... if you want to do that roll a sentinel or marauder.. We are Jedi Counselor's not Jedi Knights, we use a combination of lightsaber skills enfused w/ force skills...The most damage i've done in a warzone is 381k... That's more dmg then i've seen some ****n Jedi sentinels and Sith Marauders do... EVEN INQUISITORS! i love it, you blow. /thread

 

You stated that it wasn't, haven't offered any evidence, made unsupported claims & also proven yourself to be functionally retarded.

 

If far more coherent, intelligent posters are saying that there are numerous issues with the class and specifying them then just because you come in and go "OLOL NO DFAG I CRIT FOR LIEK EVERYTHIONG!!!!" doesn't make it true.

lol your a *********** *******... this thread was asking if shadow pvp is gimped and i was simply stating that it wasnt... the fact that you think it is means your a terrible *********** player... learn to play your class or shut up and reroll something else... Infiltration is a good well rounded class... i love the fact that i can crit for high numbers and im not just hack and slashing **** the entire time... if you want to do that roll a sentinel or marauder.. We are Jedi Counselor's not Jedi Knights, we use a combination of lightsaber skills enfused w/ force skills...The most damage i've done in a warzone is 381k... That's more dmg then i've seen some ****n Jedi sentinels and Sith Marauders do... EVEN INQUISITORS! i love it, you blow. /thread

 

 

381k? That's really nothing to brag about, honestly. I see people blow that out of the water regularly. Not to sound like a jerk or anything, but for being full champ gear, that's pretty meh damage ( compared to other DPS specs in the same gear, mind you). I hit 275k at one point and I'm in quest gear, just hit 50 lastnight.