Like Anakin picks up Obi's lightsaber to beat Dooku, and when Malgus picks up his master's lightsaber to beat the Jedi. Why don't they just start the fight with 2 lightsabers?

That is an excellent question, especially since dual-wielding requires a completely different style of combat then using one saber.

It seems that the jedi/sith who have mastered their single-blade combat style, suddenly become supreme in the art of dual-wielding as soon as they pick up that second one. Amazing.

 

Going from one blade to two blades SHOULD impair your fighting skill, not improving it, because even though at least all jedi get an equal training in almost all the combat styles (except the more aggressive styles), all of them can't be equally good in all fighting styles.

Dual-wielding, or worse, double-bladed-wielding takes ALOT of training.

sight... you realize that force sensitives can predict the oponents moves. in order to automanuever the oponent in this sometimes a lightsaber form change makes sense.

Other thing just because certain jedi or sith it specializes or prefers to fight in a certain style, doesnt mean it didnt had training in any other styles.

 

In the begining of season 5 of the clone wars. Obi wan picked another lightsaber from a fallen jedi to fight agains the 2 sith brothers Maul and savage.

Cleary showing moves of ataru with fancy kicks and backflips. Not suprising since his former master was an ataru specialist. while obi wan would become a great master with the soresu form, doesnt mean he wasnt capable of fighting in other forms.

Most jedi/sith were trained in numerous forms and even some mastered all lightsaber forms yoda and sidious come to mind, but im certain there are others.

 

I think people nitpick so much about litle things of realy no importance. But thats just me.

 

all of them can't be equally good in all fighting styles.

wrong. Manny are. And it is malgus ffs.

regardless on the trailer im confident they wanted to show a bit of the in game classes.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Spartanik

sight... you realize that force sensitives can predict the oponents moves. in order to automanuever the oponent in this sometimes a lightsaber form change makes sense.

Other thing just because certain jedi or sith it specializes or prefers to fight in a certain style, doesnt mean it didnt had training in any other styles..

 

Yes, of course I know that force sensitives can predict the enemies movements, that's how sith and jedi can deflect blaster shots for instance.

 

And if you looked at my post more carefully, you'd see that I indeed wrote that they receive training in almost all of the fighting styles, but then they SPECIALIZE in 1 or 2 of those styles.

Do you understand the concept of specializing? Say they specialize in the Way of the Hawk-bat (Form IV: Ataru, like Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn and Aylaa Secura), that means that the Way of the Mynock (Form III: Soresu) suffers from it.

 

However, the question here was not about the styles of combat, but about single vs. dual-wielding. No matter the training, you can't go from being a superb single-wielding champion, to a superb dual-wielding champion, just by picking up that additional saber.

 

EDIT: I'm sorry, my post sounded alot meaner then I intended.

Edited February 19, 2013 by tobbelq

I imagine it's also a way of surprising your enemy. They have spent the fight observing your fighting style and when they may have become comfortable with your attack and defence patters you suddenly have a second blade and a completely different offensive stance.

 

While it may not be more effective technically, the initail surprise put on the enemy may create an opening for the person dual wielding.

 

I suppose this is also why Jedi tend to learn at least 2 styles. iirc Obi-Wan started his fight against Dooku aboard Grievous' ship in Ataru and switched to Soresu in the hopes of catching Dooku off guard.

 

That's my 2 pennies on it.

I imagine it's also a way of surprising your enemy. They have spent the fight observing your fighting style and when they may have become comfortable with your attack and defence patters you suddenly have a second blade and a completely different offensive stance.

 

While it may not be more effective technically, the initail surprise put on the enemy may create an opening for the person dual wielding.

 

I suppose this is also why Jedi tend to learn at least 2 styles. iirc Obi-Wan started his fight against Dooku aboard Grievous' ship in Ataru and switched to Soresu in the hopes of catching Dooku off guard.

 

That's my 2 pennies on it.

 

I believe your 2 pennies are worth much more than that.

I think it is, as people have mentioned, a tactic employed for one of two reasons:

 

 

1. To catch your opponent off guard, especially if you are having difficulty breaching their defenses, switching form may be enough to push the offensive and gain the advantage in battle while your opponent attempts to adapt.
    
    
   
2. To more effectively combat multiple attackers. If your faced with more than one lightsaber blade, a second lightsaber may be needed to tackle them, unless you are highly skilled in the use of Ataru.
   

 

In the case of 1, if they had started wielding dual sabers from the start the advantage of suprise would have been lost. And in the case of 2, they tend to start with two blades, because its a practical move. Single blade doesn't necessarily beat dual blade, but it sometimes gives an advantage depending on the circumstance.

 

Also note that Jedi are not taught all the forms, not even basic training. All Jedi learn Form I and then they choose which form, or several forms, to specialize in. Anakin Skywalker chose to learn Form V, but he also studie Form VI and in particular, Jar'Kai - hence how he used in this battle.

 

However he clearly wasn't as proficient in it as Form V, because Dooku managed to disarm him (literally.)

 

As for Kenobi, he was a master lightsaber duelist and had in fact studied both Niman and Jar'Kai as well as Ataru which often favoured dueling wielding. I expect this is also the case for Malgus and Shan's master.

It's correct that Jedi will specialize in particular forms, and a rare few will dabble in all of them. (Even Yoda still favored Ataru, as it played to his natural advantages)

 

However, this is also a bit of hand-waving on the part of Lucas. Anakin picks up another lightsaber because it looks cool. It's a little cinematic, nothing more. The game trailer was just echoing this from the films, and also showing off the different class options a little bit.

 

In reality, fighting with two sabers is pretty much universally a bad idea. I think there was a thread about that a little while back, something along the lines of two sabers vs. double bladed.

It's correct that Jedi will specialize in particular forms, and a rare few will dabble in all of them. (Even Yoda still favored Ataru, as it played to his natural advantages)

 

However, this is also a bit of hand-waving on the part of Lucas. Anakin picks up another lightsaber because it looks cool. It's a little cinematic, nothing more. The game trailer was just echoing this from the films, and also showing off the different class options a little bit.

 

In reality, fighting with two sabers is pretty much universally a bad idea. I think there was a thread about that a little while back, something along the lines of two sabers vs. double bladed.

 

Exactly... it is a plot device. You will notice that no major character in the movies carries more than one lightsaber at any time. Their lightsaber is singular. It is iconic. It is part of the identity of the character and that gets all mucked up if they keep changing. You will also note the importance of the one weapon, as they always get the same one back after losing it. It's not like Anakin or Obi-Wan drop their saber and say, "Bah, nevermind, I'll get another one back at the temple."

Exactly... it is a plot device. You will notice that no major character in the movies carries more than one lightsaber at any time. Their lightsaber is singular. It is iconic. It is part of the identity of the character and that gets all mucked up if they keep changing. You will also note the importance of the one weapon, as they always get the same one back after losing it. It's not like Anakin or Obi-Wan drop their saber and say, "Bah, nevermind, I'll get another one back at the temple."

Ventress' dual blades however are also pretty iconic of her character. Sure it may be a plot device, but it works just fine.

Exactly... it is a plot device. You will notice that no major character in the movies carries more than one lightsaber at any time. Their lightsaber is singular. It is iconic. It is part of the identity of the character and that gets all mucked up if they keep changing. You will also note the importance of the one weapon, as they always get the same one back after losing it. It's not like Anakin or Obi-Wan drop their saber and say, "Bah, nevermind, I'll get another one back at the temple."

 

Yeah, because crafting your own lightsaber is the final test before becoming a true jedi.

Meditating and constructing your own personal lightsaber carries with it alot of emotional attachment, which is why they start choking up as soon as they lose their ligthsaber.

Yes, of course I know that force sensitives can predict the enemies movements, that's how sith and jedi can deflect blaster shots for instance.

 

And if you looked at my post more carefully, you'd see that I indeed wrote that they receive training in almost all of the fighting styles, but then they SPECIALIZE in 1 or 2 of those styles.

Do you understand the concept of specializing? Say they specialize in the Way of the Hawk-bat (Form IV: Ataru, like Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn and Aylaa Secura), that means that the Way of the Mynock (Form III: Soresu) suffers from it.

 

However, the question here was not about the styles of combat, but about single vs. dual-wielding. No matter the training, you can't go from being a superb single-wielding champion, to a superb dual-wielding champion, just by picking up that additional saber.

 

EDIT: I'm sorry, my post sounded alot meaner then I intended.

Yoda is knowned to have mastered ( or specialized ) in all lightsaber forms. he would use Ataru more often to compensate for his iliness due to old age. Also for his size.

v What im trying to say for instance like sidious they can specialize every lightsaber form.

Not to mention in a fight or dual they need to adap to it. Changing forms it can heppen very often and probably should happen more often then not due to the circunstances of every situation.

 

Also note that Jedi are not taught all the forms, not even basic training. All Jedi learn Form I and then they choose which form, or several forms, to specialize in. Anakin Skywalker chose to learn Form V, but he also studie Form VI and in particular, Jar'Kai - hence how he used in this battle.

 

However he clearly wasn't as proficient in it as Form V, because Dooku managed to disarm him (literally.)

 

As for Kenobi, he was a master lightsaber duelist and had in fact studied both Niman and Jar'Kai as well as Ataru which often favoured dueling wielding. I expect this is also the case for Malgus and Shan's master.

sith however are not like jedi. darth vader himself he specialized in plenty of other forms not only djem so.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Spartanik

It's not that you can't be talented with many different forms, and most top notch duelists would be familiar with all the forms, but rather that no matter your level of skill, there will be certain areas you specialize in MORE than others. It's better to be exceptionally good at one form over others, rather than attain only a moderate level of skill in many.

It's not that you can't be talented with many different forms, and most top notch duelists would be familiar with all the forms, but rather that no matter your level of skill, there will be certain areas you specialize in MORE than others. It's better to be exceptionally good at one form over others, rather than attain only a moderate level of skill in many.

But as seen on multiple occasions it's often good to specialize in several forms to act unpredictably and fight off multiple opponents - hence why Anakin and Obi-Wan did so. And if Obi-Wan hadn't, well chances are he'd have died at the hands of Maul and Savage.

 

Also lets remember that Obi-Wan is a top notch duelist and in order to dual wield and single wield you only have have to learn two forms... I really don't see what all the hullabaloo is about.

It's definitely a matter of surprising the enemy. Think Darth Bane: Path of Destruction. Remember when Lord Kas'im, the Twi'lek weaponmaster, confronted Bane in that temple during the time of the Ruusan campaign? Bane maintained the offensive in the duel for quite awhile. Kas'im was using a double-bladed lightsaber, and Bane had only ever seen him using a double-bladed lightsaber. At some point in the fight, Kas'im separated his double-bladed lightsaber into two lightsabers and began attacking with a completely different style. Bane was much, much stronger than Kas'im, both physically and in the Force, but he was caught off guard so much that Kas'im very nearly succeeded in killing him. The only thing that saved Bane was his enormous level of anger that helped him pull down the temple on top of the Twi'lek. This is just one more (very good) example of how dual lightsabers could add a great element of surprise. Edited February 20, 2013 by partylikeaturtle

If I have your lightsaber, you do not have your lightsaber.

If I have your lightsaber, you do not have your lightsaber.

Sorry, what?

Sorry, what?

 

Translation: If he can take his opponents lightsaber and use it in the fight, thats one less lightsaber youd have to worry about, and one more your opponent would...

 

Not really the point of the thread though

Well, and *also* it's one less lightsaber the other guy can pick up, if we're talking spares

 

In short, there's advantages to being able to block in one place and hit in another. Maybe you don't go into a fight with 2 sabers, but if things seem to be evenly drawn, you change the equation. And you grab that second saber because if you don't, the other guy will.

It's not that you can't be talented with many different forms, and most top notch duelists would be familiar with all the forms, but rather that no matter your level of skill, there will be certain areas you specialize in MORE than others. It's better to be exceptionally good at one form over others, rather than attain only a moderate level of skill in many.

 

Tell that to the Jedi Swordmasters, they mastered every form of combat and kept training and honing their skills. Granted this is a small nitch, Cin Drallig(save for Juyo but he still knew it quite well to give an accurate description, but there was a good reason being that it could lead to the darkside), Yoda, Mace, Sora Bulq etc etc and so on so forth.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

Tell that to the Jedi Swordmasters, they mastered every form of combat and kept training and honing their skills. Granted this is a small nitch, Cin Drallig(save for Juyo but he still knew it quite well to give an accurate description, but there was a good reason being that it could lead to the darkside), Yoda, Mace, Sora Bulq etc etc and so on so forth.

 

Well there are differing schools of thought in this -

Dooku for Example was a big exponent of Specialisation - he always alluded to the fact that a Specialised master of a Single Form would beat a Swordmaster of all forms. Cin Drallig a Swordmaster got taken out Handily by Darth Vader a FormV speciallist.

And as Someone mentioned Blademaster Kas'im earlier (who I Rate more than Drallig) - He was a master of all the forms - but yet he knew the benefits of individual specialisation that is why he Specialised in secret with that Rare Dual-Wield Ataru Form, so he had an Ace up his Sleeve and was giving Bane all sorts of problems with it -

Well there are differing schools of thought in this -

Dooku for Example was a big exponent of Specialisation - he always alluded to the fact that a Specialised master of a Single Form would beat a Swordmaster of all forms. Cin Drallig a Swordmaster got taken out Handily by Darth Vader a FormV speciallist.

And as Someone mentioned Blademaster Kas'im earlier (who I Rate more than Drallig) - He was a master of all the forms - but yet he knew the benefits of individual specialisation that is why he Specialised in secret with that Rare Dual-Wield Ataru Form, so he had an Ace up his Sleeve and was giving Bane all sorts of problems with it -

 

While right, that wasn't my point. I was mainly responding to the point of "having moderate skill" bit in the post. I probably should have snipped the post down. Though how do we know Cin got taken out handily? It only shows what? 3 seconds of a fight in the movie? I have a hard time believing that, unless in the book it says somewhere where it shows as it being easy.

 

Not to mention he himself trained Anakin...plus plot armor. But putting that bit aside, I don't see any reason why Cin wouldn't be a challenge for Anakin even if the latter was a jedi master in skill and using his preferred form in a more aggressive manner.

 

Anyway were getting a little off topic here, so apologizes lets just continue on.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

I'm going to have to agree with the argument based on "theatrics"

 

There's alot of talk on different fighting styles here, and I've got two examples that make sense ONLY for theatrical and dramatic effect:

 

General Grievous, in Revenge of the Sith, wielding FOUR lightsabers at once, and Obi-Wan managing to come out victorious, strictly theatrical (I mean cmon..we all knew the outcome of that battle..he's a main character)

 

and

 

Jedi Master Pong Krell, in The Clone Wars series, duel-wielding DOUBLE-BLADED lightsabers, who proceeded to cut down a bunch of Clone Troopers. The only reason they must have done that is to emphasize the dramatic, brutal hatred Pong Krell had for clone troopers as he cut a ton down

Edited February 20, 2013 by Xaldynn

I'm going to have to agree with the argument based on "theatrics"

 

There's alot of talk on different fighting styles here, and I've got two examples that make sense ONLY for theatrical and dramatic effect:

 

General Grievous, in Revenge of the Sith, wielding FOUR lightsabers at once, and Obi-Wan managing to come out victorious, strictly theatrical (I mean cmon..we all knew the outcome of that battle..he's a main character)

 

and

 

Jedi Master Pong Krell, in The Clone Wars series, duel-wielding DOUBLE-BLADED lightsabers, who proceeded to cut down a bunch of Clone Troopers. The only reason they must have done that is to emphasize the dramatic, brutal hatred Pong Krell had for clone troopers as he cut a ton down

With Grievous, I'd disagree. Wielding four lightsabers is not only super intimidating, but also entirely unique. That alone is enough to throw a Jedi (it also works very well against multiple opponents)

 

Pong Krell.... yah.

The Obi-Wan vs. Grievous fight was entirely ridiculous. The way Grievous was portrayed as fighting when he had all four lightsabers was simply embarrassing. He had a robotic body and four arms... he should be winning any duel that strictly involves saber combat.