I just find it amusing in a "computer roleplaying games are STILL this bad?!" sort of way.

So I'm a Bounty Hunter. I get a bounty on a dude. I apparently singlehandedly kill the entire army that's protecting him, including a bunch of elite assassins (and you guys couldn't kill him yourself because...?)

While I'm doing this, of course, the buddies of the people I'm killing now are standing about 30 meters away, in plain sight, not reacting to any of this. I'll kill them next, of course.

I have to assume all people in Star Wars have 20/2000 vision and are hard of hearing. ("Did anyone hear anything? I thought I saw some lights. Bob? BOB, IS THAT YOU?")

So by level 33 my Bounty Hunter has killed, what, like 5000 people? Mostly because they refuse to cooperate with each other ("Oh that's alpha team over there. Those guys suck. Just let them die. We'll take this Bounty Hunter when he gets to us no probHURK.")

Someday, someone should design a roleplaying game that isn't just "action keymasher with cutscenes".

Someday, someone should design a roleplaying game that isn't just "action keymasher with cutscenes".

It's called D&D...

Well, it's the traditional MMO system of a bunch of mobs that you must slay. In RP, I didn't kill all of those guys, I just RP that I didn't even encounter them, instead I just snuck past them.

But of course, for the sake of the game, I just kill the ones in my way and/or the ones that I need for quests. By establishing a clear line between OOC and IC play, it makes silly and quite honestly dumb situations like these more easily ignored.

I just find it amusing in a "computer roleplaying games are STILL this bad?!" sort of way.

 

So I'm a Bounty Hunter. I get a bounty on a dude. I apparently singlehandedly kill the entire army that's protecting him, including a bunch of elite assassins (and you guys couldn't kill him yourself because...?)

 

While I'm doing this, of course, the buddies of the people I'm killing now are standing about 30 meters away, in plain sight, not reacting to any of this. I'll kill them next, of course.

 

I have to assume all people in Star Wars have 20/2000 vision and are hard of hearing. ("Did anyone hear anything? I thought I saw some lights. Bob? BOB, IS THAT YOU?")

 

 

So by level 33 my Bounty Hunter has killed, what, like 5000 people? Mostly because they refuse to cooperate with each other ("Oh that's alpha team over there. Those guys suck. Just let them die. We'll take this Bounty Hunter when he gets to us no probHURK.")

 

 

Someday, someone should design a roleplaying game that isn't just "action keymasher with cutscenes".

Its just a game.

Unfortunately it's completely impossible to create an MMO like what you're talking about. Of course it's funny that you kill a group of soldiers easily within sight of their friends, but if it was "real life" you would never get anything done because you would constantly be mobbed by all 600 mobs who can see you.

You just have to practice a little suspension of disbelief. Ha. My friends and I joke all the time about what you're talking about. We'll be killing someone or planting a bomb while saying out loud, "Don't mind me, just blowing up this ship!" while all the other mobs just stand around, totally uninterested in the warning sirens and explosions happening all around. Ha.

And you play a mass murderer in just about every video game, so nothing new there!

My friends and I joke all the time about what you're talking about. We'll be killing someone or planting a bomb while saying out loud, "Don't mind me, just blowing up this ship!" while all the other mobs just stand around, totally uninterested in the warning sirens and explosions happening all around.

Teehee. I got a good giggle out of this too. The first time it happened, my boyfriend and I expected to see some mobs appear when the sirens went off. Instead, we were left thinking: Someone? Anyone? One of you?...Maybe?...aww come on we're destroying your computers and your ships! No, still not interested? Well how about if I kill your friends over here? No? Still just talking amonst yourselves in your little groups. I see. You're not very observant for Republic fighters are you?

It's like Skyrim, where you sneak up to a boss, shoot him in the face with an arrow... "What was that" *searches* "Oh, must've been nothing!" then shoot him again. Rinse, repeat until boss is dead. lol.

Wait, you can come up behind a boss and shoot him in the face? Is his face on the back of his head? Does your arrow go over the boss's head and hit his face? I'd love to see how this is possible.

Unfortunately it's completely impossible to create an MMO like what you're talking about.

WRONG.jpg

Imagine two possible quests:

a) You are supposed to kill some guy. He's kind of off by himself, perhaps with scattered wild creatures and errant droids in the way. You kill him. Blah blah, typical quest, but perfectly reasonable from a roleplay perspective.

b) You are supposed to kill some guy. He's in a base protected by about a hundred soldiers. Rather than trundle your way through the base murdering the entire garrison along the way in small, easily handled groups (see also:

SWG actually had some setups that were like this. There would be a rebel base near an imperial base. If you shot a rebel and dragged him over to the imperials, you'd touch off an hour-long shootout between the two bases as they agro-chained each other, with respawns showing up and joining the fight. It felt like an actual war was going on.

The mechanics are already in place for this sort of thing to happen.

It's just that nobody does it. Nobody has the ounce of inventiveness to sit down and think about how a "typical shallow 'roleplaying game'" might be made more immersive. They just copy-paste the last "roleplaying game" and sell the same package to you again.

You say it's completely impossible. I say you have the imagination of a potato. I say they can do it, they just don't care to.

WRONG.jpg

 

Imagine two possible quests:

 

a) You are supposed to kill some guy. He's kind of off by himself, perhaps with scattered wild creatures and errant droids in the way. You kill him. Blah blah, typical quest, but perfectly reasonable from a roleplay perspective.

 

 

b) You are supposed to kill some guy. He's in a base protected by about a hundred soldiers. Rather than trundle your way through the base murdering the entire garrison along the way in small, easily handled groups (see also:

), you are instead thrust into a pitched battle: friendly NPCs are attacking the base and you are mostly helping them. It's a big war and you just have to find your target somewhere in the middle of it.

 

 

SWG actually had some setups that were like this. There would be a rebel base near an imperial base. If you shot a rebel and dragged him over to the imperials, you'd touch off an hour-long shootout between the two bases as they agro-chained each other, with respawns showing up and joining the fight. It felt like an actual war was going on.

 

The mechanics are already in place for this sort of thing to happen.

 

It's just that nobody does it. Nobody has the ounce of inventiveness to sit down and think about how a "typical shallow 'roleplaying game'" might be made more immersive. They just copy-paste the last "roleplaying game" and sell the same package to you again.

 

 

You say it's completely impossible. I say you have the imagination of a potato. I say they can do it, they just don't care to.

Yes...lets go to SWG for how to handle AI behavior....yuck I can taste the bile coming up.

To be fair, the other mobs in plain sight of you were coming to help their buddies, but they took an arrow to the knee.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

Yes, I agree with a couple posters here... the "roleplaying" in this game seems severely limited as of right now. Where's the bounty hunter boards for bounty hunters? Why can't a player make a bounty on someone for a hunter to pursue? Why can't a player post a request for someone to craft a certain item for him, payment made upon delivery? Where's the ability to create player created quests (even simple ones)?

Too many of the quests in this game seem to be "go here, kill/retrieve that, go back here, collect." Granted, almost all quests are like that in RPGs, I understand that, but there is a lack of player influence in this.

I think guilds and the community can benefit from player created content. Sure, guilds can post "quests" or "bounties" in order to do so, but the mechanics are not built in to assist players and guilds in creating their own content.

Honestly, right now I'm playing the game closer to a single player game, because the story line stuff is actually pretty decent. But there doesn't seem to be much MMO in it.

I also dislike the fact that there isn't much in the way of classes or skills. SWG had dancers and such...SWTOR has war-minded classes. The mechanics to promote more casual RP gameplay is simply not there or severely lacking.

You know what I'd like to see? Me, I'm a bounty hunter. I'd like the ability to have a crew, even just two or three or four people, on my ship, travelling and hunting actual bounties posted by the players or as random content by the game itself. On the side we might pick up smuggling or transport jobs. Maybe we'll hire on a dancer to entertain customers.

That's the kind of gameplay I would like to see, at least in my case.

Yes, I agree with a couple posters here... the "roleplaying" in this game seems severely limited as of right now. Where's the bounty hunter boards for bounty hunters? Why can't a player make a bounty on someone for a hunter to pursue? Why can't a player post a request for someone to craft a certain item for him, payment made upon delivery? Where's the ability to create player created quests (even simple ones)?

 

Too many of the quests in this game seem to be "go here, kill/retrieve that, go back here, collect." Granted, almost all quests are like that in RPGs, I understand that, but there is a lack of player influence in this.

 

I think guilds and the community can benefit from player created content. Sure, guilds can post "quests" or "bounties" in order to do so, but the mechanics are not built in to assist players and guilds in creating their own content.

 

Honestly, right now I'm playing the game closer to a single player game, because the story line stuff is actually pretty decent. But there doesn't seem to be much MMO in it.

 

I also dislike the fact that there isn't much in the way of classes or skills. SWG had dancers and such...SWTOR has war-minded classes. The mechanics to promote more casual RP gameplay is simply not there or severely lacking.

 

You know what I'd like to see? Me, I'm a bounty hunter. I'd like the ability to have a crew, even just two or three or four people, on my ship, travelling and hunting actual bounties posted by the players or as random content by the game itself. On the side we might pick up smuggling or transport jobs. Maybe we'll hire on a dancer to entertain customers.

 

That's the kind of gameplay I would like to see, at least in my case.

People...

The game was just released exactly one week and one day ago. They have years - years - to improve upon existing systems and implement new ones. I'm quite positive that almost everything that I have read so far (admittedly I have skimmed some replies) is being listed here will be implemented.

You just need to give it time.

*Looks at title*

So I'm a Bounty Hunter.

/facepalm

In my experience, most people simply ignore the game's quests IC.

The real flesh and blood of the roleplay is done with the game's setting and other players.

Involving NPCs and plot devices isn't practical, otherwise Darth Doughnut (never bothered to remember his actual name) would have about 1,000 apprentices, all of whom killed the same person... explain that one.

No, the game's story and mechanics should be set entirely out of character when roleplaying.

Edit: Considering that the default troop for each faction is a playable class, players should really be the only real army when roleplaying. Just pretty much ignore the NPCs, save for the occasional bartender and cantina dancer.

Yes, I agree with a couple posters here... the "roleplaying" in this game seems severely limited as of right now. Where's the bounty hunter boards for bounty hunters? Why can't a player make a bounty on someone for a hunter to pursue? Why can't a player post a request for someone to craft a certain item for him, payment made upon delivery? Where's the ability to create player created quests (even simple ones)?

 

Too many of the quests in this game seem to be "go here, kill/retrieve that, go back here, collect." Granted, almost all quests are like that in RPGs, I understand that, but there is a lack of player influence in this.

 

I think guilds and the community can benefit from player created content. Sure, guilds can post "quests" or "bounties" in order to do so, but the mechanics are not built in to assist players and guilds in creating their own content.

 

Honestly, right now I'm playing the game closer to a single player game, because the story line stuff is actually pretty decent. But there doesn't seem to be much MMO in it.

 

I also dislike the fact that there isn't much in the way of classes or skills. SWG had dancers and such...SWTOR has war-minded classes. The mechanics to promote more casual RP gameplay is simply not there or severely lacking.

 

You know what I'd like to see? Me, I'm a bounty hunter. I'd like the ability to have a crew, even just two or three or four people, on my ship, travelling and hunting actual bounties posted by the players or as random content by the game itself. On the side we might pick up smuggling or transport jobs. Maybe we'll hire on a dancer to entertain customers.

 

That's the kind of gameplay I would like to see, at least in my case.

All games are different. You don't like TOR because it's missing everything from SWG? Too bad.

You want a dancer class? Make a twilek, go to Nar Shadda, buy a slave outfit, and type in chat /dance. Bam, your own homemade dancer class.

Player made bounties was a horrible idea because it was too exploitable. Ex: A player has a bounty on him. *Phones a friend* "Hey buddy, I got a bounty on my head can you switch over to your BH and take it off for me? I'll let you keep half the bounty." "Sure bro." *Signs in* *Kills friend and shares credits*

Last I checked, player made quests were utterly horrible or exactly what you said above: "go here, kill/retrieve that, go back here, collect."

In my experience, most people simply ignore the game's quests IC.

The real flesh and blood of the roleplay is done with the game's setting and other players.

Involving NPCs and plot devices isn't practical, otherwise Darth Doughnut (never bothered to remember his actual name) would have about 1,000 apprentices, all of whom killed the same person... explain that one.

Exactly. And there is no reason for roleplaying games to be built this way. Shame on Bioware for copying an "action-adventure" genre and slapping a "roleplaying" label on it.

These are MMOAAGs -- Massively Multiplayer Online Action Adventure Games. You "can" roleplay but you "can" roleplay in Quake or Team Fortress, too. That doesn't make Quake into a roleplaying game. Quake is an action shooter. SWTOR is an action adventure game. None of the above are roleplaying games.

The closest thing we may have to a real MMORPG is probably EVE. And I realize that's a stretch, but at least in EVE the players can have some real impact on the world. Their guilds have real meaning, real objectives and these objectives change the shape of the world.

What has your character done in SWTOR?

I mean really done.

What has your guild accomplished that I can go to your server, look at and say, "Yep. You did that. I am impressed."

Nothing.

You did nothing.

Your guild did nothing.

You did nothing that persisted for more than about 2 minutes.

In true roleplaying, the world works with you. In a multiplayer action-adventure-story game, it doesn't. Not only are you pretending to be a Jedi, but your Jedi is pretending to have a real impact. You are roleplaying a jedi that is roleplaying someone who matters. That's messed up!

I'm bitter that after 10+ years of MMORPG development, we are still basically playing Everquest 1 in terms of world mechanics (i.e. there aren't any).

I just find it amusing in a "computer roleplaying games are STILL this bad?!" sort of way.

 

So I'm a Bounty Hunter. I get a bounty on a dude. I apparently singlehandedly kill the entire army that's protecting him, including a bunch of elite assassins (and you guys couldn't kill him yourself because...?)

 

While I'm doing this, of course, the buddies of the people I'm killing now are standing about 30 meters away, in plain sight, not reacting to any of this. I'll kill them next, of course.

 

I have to assume all people in Star Wars have 20/2000 vision and are hard of hearing. ("Did anyone hear anything? I thought I saw some lights. Bob? BOB, IS THAT YOU?")

 

 

So by level 33 my Bounty Hunter has killed, what, like 5000 people? Mostly because they refuse to cooperate with each other ("Oh that's alpha team over there. Those guys suck. Just let them die. We'll take this Bounty Hunter when he gets to us no probHURK.")

 

 

Someday, someone should design a roleplaying game that isn't just "action keymasher with cutscenes".

You know, you can make you're RP completely separate from the game's story driven aspect, In fact don't let the story dictate the limits of your own imagination.

I'm bitter that after 10+ years of MMORPG development, we are still basically playing Everquest 1 in terms of world mechanics (i.e. there aren't any).

No, you are bitter that SWTOR does not have mechanics of SWG that you liked. This has nothing to do with new development, this has everything to do with wanting more SWG in SWTOR.

But you know what? Most customers don't want a fully customizable digital environment. They don't want to have impact on their surroundings. They just want to immerse themselves in an already existing world and escape their daily lives. They do not want a second, digital life and a second, digital job to go with it. This is the folly of both SWG and *shudders* Second Life. They created second jobs instead of enjoyable environments to be entertained.

And you know what, what you dislike is what most people like about modern MMOs. SWTOR is nothing more than KOTORIII multiplayer. And you know what? Most of us were waiting for that to come!

I rather kill monsters and wildlife then the local people too.. I understand what he is saying

We are indeed serial killers.

Killing rancors etc is more suitable

No, you are bitter that SWTOR does not have mechanics of SWG that you liked. This has nothing to do with new development, this has everything to do with wanting more SWG in SWTOR.

 

But you know what? Most customers don't want a fully customizable digital environment. They don't want to have impact on their surroundings. They just want to immerse themselves in an already existing world and escape their daily lives. They do not want a second, digital life and a second, digital job to go with it. This is the folly of both SWG and *shudders* Second Life. They created second jobs instead of enjoyable environments to be entertained.

 

And you know what, what you dislike is what most people like about modern MMOs. SWTOR is nothing more than KOTORIII multiplayer. And you know what? Most of us were waiting for that to come!

+9001

/thread

It's simply not a game created for RPers. It's an MMO created for PvE and PvP...we are lucky and should be thankful, that they also opened specific RP servers Instead of complaining about something, that simply can not be changed in any MMO, that gives space for RP servers we should be thankful for the great RP servers we have and be creative enough to RP around unlogical situations

Take it as a challenge, work your creativity and RPy through it! That's what a true RPer would do

Our charecters are living in a galaxy at war, at best it is a cold war, at worst planets are being destroyed. You are comparing the ethos and methodology of your character to our world, yes I know we would question the number of deaths, but would your character?

Viewing the actions of roleplaying characters through the lense of our modern lives leads to these issues. Perhaps we should instead all play Office Worker Massive Multiplayer Online?

As to the OP’s points on holes in gaming reality, SWtOR has certainly still got them like every other MMO.