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Guard could use a rebalance

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Guard could use a rebalance

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.19.2019 , 08:11 PM | #1
First, why is this in the PvP forums? Shouldn't this be in the general forums?

Your healer is basically never under attack in pve thus you don't really need guard in pve at all. Sure a 2nd tank guards the primary tank who holds all the aggro. But honestly you can probably do it without the guard anyways.

So where does guard really shine? Yah, in PvP.

I honestly think if you laid down all the skills of every class and looked at them all individually, guard would be the #1 most OP skill. Even above net or combat invis.

First, it has no duration or cooldown. Spam it away to whatever you want!

Second, it absorbs 50% of damage?! WHAT?! There's nothing else in this game that does 50% of anything other than slowing! You can't reduce peoples accuracy 50% with a single skill, or increase damage 50% with a single skill or lower healing taken 50% with a single skill. Jesus man absorbing 50% damage? That's just stupid strong.

Next is the fact you allow dps versions of the class to use this extremely powerful skill. So if they're not focusing you, you can swap it onto whoever they are focusing. That's... stupid imho. Supposed to counter the fact dps heal classes can heal I suppose? or combat res? I think there's a better way to mirror than that.

So it always works, can't be dispelled, doesn't have a duration or an absorb limit and can be moved to new targets nearly at will.

Yep, sounds like it could use a bit of rebalancing to me.

Suggests for rebalance:

When you take it OFF a target, there's a cooldown before putting it on a NEW target. 5 seconds? 10?

Give it an absorb limit, after which it goes on a long cd. Absorbs 50% of players max health maybe? Then 1 minute cd.?

Drop the absorb limit to 25%, but you still take 50%. Cause you know taking only half dmg permanently is rather lame.

When you add that on top of that taunt will reduce their dmg 30%, they're not only doing 35% dmg to the target and 35% damage to you. Ugh really? Damage reduced by 65% to the guy you actually want to kill? Come on Bioware you can do better than that.

I'm sure you guys can get creative about it. End game PvP is hard enough as it is between all the immense amount of self sustainability many of these classes get. When you add guard in there it makes it almost rather stupid to even attempt attacking the person who has the guard on them. In fact I'd go so far as to say if you are attacking the person with guard on you're probably a dumb idiot and you're going to lose the fight. Gotta find the guy without guard, swap focus, coordinate, pray their tank is stupid and doesn't swap guard fast enough.

I'd actually go so far as to say even if you do rebalance it, to remove guard from the dps specs. Give them something else in return. How about something along the lines of the power of Elecro Net? Something that does great damage, cc's, can't be dispelled and always works. That'd be fantastic.

I'm frustrated by some of this stuff cause the PvP in this game could be SO GOOD! It could be some of the best PvP ever in an MMO. There's just these few little tweeker skills and stupidly OP healers preventing it from being what it really could be. It could be better than GW2 PvP in a Star Wars environment.

The potential is there just takes someone to actually care. Or is it too late?

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.19.2019 , 08:24 PM | #2
This has been debated to no end. In this era where wzs are mostly full of people who can barely play their class, i personally feel much of the problem is the general lack of dps.

don't nerf my playstyle because you don't know your class, thanks.

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
06.20.2019 , 01:24 AM | #3
Try playing tank against real dps and then get back to us.

Heck just try playing tank against crappy dps. I'm pretty sure you won't do very well either way. You don't really seem to understand tanking or guard.

I say this as someone who almost never tanks anymore and is most often dpsing.

MackPol's Avatar


MackPol
06.20.2019 , 12:00 PM | #4
Guard does not absorb anything for one and most important point.
Arguably can be the strongest ability in the game because it can prevent the kill while used correctly by a tank but it’s a mechanic that makes the pvp in this game unique.

When used by dps will normally cause very quick death the dps. No much use aside from buying few seconds of life in sr. Could be removed from dps specs.

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.20.2019 , 07:33 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by MackPol View Post
Guard does not absorb anything for one and most important point.
Arguably can be the strongest ability in the game because it can prevent the kill while used correctly by a tank but it’s a mechanic that makes the pvp in this game unique.

When used by dps will normally cause very quick death the dps. No much use aside from buying few seconds of life in sr. Could be removed from dps specs.
Honestly if i could vote for one thing to happen, that would be it.

Remove guard from the dps specs and give them a skill that actually assist in dps'ing. Something along the power of elctro net for mercs.

I still think it'd be too strong as an ability as it is even if only tanks get it, but at least take it away from dps and give em something they can use more frequently. When I'm not in a 4v4 game it feels like a wasted skill on the bar.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.20.2019 , 09:03 PM | #6
honestly, OP, you need to run a tank or healer when the actual dpsers come back. Then tell me how easy it is.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.20.2019 , 10:28 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
honestly, OP, you need to run a tank or healer when the actual dpsers come back. Then tell me how easy it is.
That’s if more proper dps’ers come back or any of the old time players. I feel like we are a dying breed. Our ranks have been so thinned out that you rarely see many proper pvpers in regs anymore.

I personally dislike ranked and now my extra lag makes it extremely difficult to perform properly. But it really is the last bastion for anyone who wants to play with people who have some skill and want to win.

Regs is such a joke now when compared to the 4.x period or early and if you had one of the super pvpers come back from the 1.2-2.0 period, they would wipe the floor with the lot of us “better pvpers” like we mop the floor with most reg pvpers.

I’m so disallusioned with pvp in this game that I’m not queuing for regs or ranked.

Bioware’s biggest mistake was removing objective ranked. Yes, it could have been better and tweaked more (maybe a solo queue version), but Bioware never tried.
That drove a bunch of really good objective players from the game and started the decline of reg pvp because arena death match attitudes bleed into objective pvp to where we have no one trying to do objectives or to win these days.

There is hardly any all round quality pvp players in reg pvp these day. People don’t know tactics or basic strategy or even how to win. The few all rounders left who can actually fight and play objectives are few and far between. Even some of those have given up trying to win. They have started to have the, if you can’t beat’em, you might as well join’em attitude.

I’ve no incentive to pvp in this game anymore. Every time I do I have a bad time with people not trying or poorly matched teams that are white washed over whelmingly.
It’s only getting worse as time progresses. Bioware don’t seem to care one bit or they would look into how they could improve it. But all they care about is fast pops over quality and they are too lazy to change or set up systems to incentivise people to actually play to win and get better.

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
06.21.2019 , 09:56 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
disallusioned .
ha! (just pictured someone dissing your allusion to the way things were before)
Krack

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.21.2019 , 07:04 PM | #9
@Trixxie:

I too havent been doing pvp much. As my buddy says, you have a choice: the toxic jerk server or the full of garbage server. (In NA anyway)

Mubrak's Avatar


Mubrak
06.22.2019 , 12:36 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainObvius View Post
Your healer is basically never under attack in pve thus you don't really need guard in pve at all. Sure a 2nd tank guards the primary tank who holds all the aggro. But honestly you can probably do it without the guard anyways.
What the..? In PVE the Healer doesn't really need guard because when they get attacked, everyone else ignored the mob. 75% threat generation is still more than the 0% that is generated by those who soon won't get any heals.

In what scenario would the off-tank guard the main tank? The tank takes 5% less damage but also generates 25% less threat and can't use guard themselves so they will lose aggro quickly.


As for PVP, what's up with all those "rebalance role/utility" posts lately?

In PVP guard from a dps may be annoying for the opposing team's dps who need to learn to adapt when just mashing buttons won't do it, but dps guard when not done properly is just as annoying for their own team's tank (can't properly guard either dps) and healer (has to split heals on two melting dps). So... balanced?
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