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Healers don't belong in PvP, at least nerf this OP garbage

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Healers don't belong in PvP, at least nerf this OP garbage

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
06.19.2019 , 08:35 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainObvius View Post

Now let's go back a bit. And say instead of a dps showing up, a healer shows up. And let's pretend (and I say pretend cause this is not the case in this game) that healers heal the same amount of damage per second as dps can dish out.
Congratulations, you've pulled a healer from another area of contention in the WZ and have a 2 vs 1. This gives your team a definitive advantage somewhere else.

If your group of 8 can not benefit from that, then it's definitely a "git gud" situation.

Thanks for playing though.
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
06.19.2019 , 09:55 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptainObvius View Post
I've never ONCE seen a 70 pvp game where the highest heals was lower than the dps damage. Now are you going to sit there and try to tell me that 100% of all dps players are just garbage? And that all the godlike players only play healers?

Right.................
I'm not sure whether I should take this seriously or not. Most dps players with a modicum of skill could kill a healer solo given enough time. In 248 gear I could solo healers all day long. 258 definitely made it harder, but it isn't impossible to solo kill a healer with proper cc and multiple interrupts. If you're playing regs just tag team him with your teammates.

I'm a casual player on a Jugg with 0 alacrity and I can manage it. I'm sure there are die hard ranked players that smoke healers, especially marauders.

http://i.imgur.com/8Gyz0bT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7DLg30T.jpg

There ya go, 70 pvp with higher dps than heals. The biggest problem right now is that the majority of the good pvpers are either on hiatus from the game or have quit altogether.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
06.19.2019 , 10:33 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Dyne- View Post
I'm not sure whether I should take this seriously or not. Most dps players with a modicum of skill could kill a healer solo given enough time. In 248 gear I could solo healers all day long. 258 definitely made it harder, but it isn't impossible to solo kill a healer with proper cc and multiple interrupts. If you're playing regs just tag team him with your teammates.

I'm a casual player on a Jugg with 0 alacrity and I can manage it. I'm sure there are die hard ranked players that smoke healers, especially marauders.

http://i.imgur.com/8Gyz0bT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7DLg30T.jpg

There ya go, 70 pvp with higher dps than heals. The biggest problem right now is that the majority of the good pvpers are either on hiatus from the game or have quit altogether.
And Cc’s, interrupts, slows should always be part of the repertoire to take down a healer. You should not be able to just dps them to death or that defeats the purpose and would make them too squishy in a group environment.
If a player uses their classes full abilities they can eventually kill the healer or at least take them out of the game and allow their team to kill the dps.

The problems that I see are people leave the healer to free cast while attacking the dps who already have the strongest DCDs or survivability in the game. Which only takes more pressure off the healer and lets them do massive healing for their team.

The other issue is when you have multiple healers in a match. IMO, that should never happen, even in 8v8.
Healers should either be really good singly or they need to be weaker and be required to have another healer as back up.

Even tank healer combos can be too strong in some cases, but you can use strategy and tactics to drive them apart or isolate them together so they can’t help their team. Which is much harder to do if it’s 2 healers and no tanks.

But add a tank to a multiple healer mix and the game’s a joke unless they are really bad. It just becomes one big parsing exercise and nothing dies. Which seems to be what most people prefer because they can look at the score board and say they did big numbers “dummy” parsing on an unkillable team.


While ever people use dummy parsing tactics and dps farming as a gauge on how “good” they are, we will continue to have most of these problems because people can’t think further than tunnel vision. They really aren’t good players, no matter what they say

Dyne-'s Avatar


Dyne-
06.19.2019 , 11:52 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
And Cc’s, interrupts, slows should always be part of the repertoire to take down a healer. You should not be able to just dps them to death or that defeats the purpose and would make them too squishy in a group environment.
If a player uses their classes full abilities they can eventually kill the healer or at least take them out of the game and allow their team to kill the dps.

The problems that I see are people leave the healer to free cast while attacking the dps who already have the strongest DCDs or survivability in the game. Which only takes more pressure off the healer and lets them do massive healing for their team.

The other issue is when you have multiple healers in a match. IMO, that should never happen, even in 8v8.
Healers should either be really good singly or they need to be weaker and be required to have another healer as back up.

Even tank healer combos can be too strong in some cases, but you can use strategy and tactics to drive them apart or isolate them together so they can’t help their team. Which is much harder to do if it’s 2 healers and no tanks.

But add a tank to a multiple healer mix and the game’s a joke unless they are really bad. It just becomes one big parsing exercise and nothing dies. Which seems to be what most people prefer because they can look at the score board and say they did big numbers “dummy” parsing on an unkillable team.


While ever people use dummy parsing tactics and dps farming as a gauge on how “good” they are, we will continue to have most of these problems because people can’t think further than tunnel vision. They really aren’t good players, no matter what they say
Pretty much this^ Glad I can count on you Trixxie to type out a lesson when i'm not in the mood for it. I agree with both of you too that multiple healers and guard gets old fast, but they aren't unbeatable. I'm going to expand on your last point though. If players focused on being the best dps / healer / tank / ect. that they could be and then figured out how to use that to make a difference in a group setting; pvp as a whole would benefit from it. We all have a bar that we use to measure and improve upon our own individual performance, and one is not necessarily superior to anothers no matter how bad we want it to be. It's typically a combination of that makes a player skilled.

I think OPs problem is that not only has he not done anything you recommended in your post ( lol ), but he also underestimates how important the team aspect is in this game.

Maximize your lethality and team play OP. You'll be surprised by the silly **** you can pull off when you truly start playing well.

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.20.2019 , 12:06 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
yes, one dps should totally be able to kill a healer solo (/sarcasm)

healers must, by practical definition, be able to heal through more than one single person damaging them.
maybe learn to use an interrupt?
That's a joke right?

No one class should be any more or less important than any other. And no one class should be any stronger than the others, no require multiple people to kill.

Now I know it's hard to balance but when it's this blatently obvious I think something is wrong.

In a 4v4 match, assuming neither side has a tank and just one healer, guess who the target will be?

EVERY TIME it will be the healer.

Why?

Cause he is by far and away the biggest threat to your team as he can easily outheal any one single persons damage. So you either have to kill him while you still have 2+ dps up on your team, or you may as well forfeit the match.

And that, as you just described, is an imbalance in power and proves that healers are too strong.

You should not HAVE to focus a healer with multiple dps to kill them. But I've seen healers tanking 5-6 dps on them with no problems at all WHILE standing in acid!

It's just gross how overly stupid OP healers are in this game.

I didn't just start playing MMO's and this certainly isn't my first PvP game. I've got (pathetically) 1000's upon 1000's of hours PvP'ing across games spanning the last 20+ years from Diablo, UO, EQ, AOC, AC, WoW, GW, GW2 etc... etc... etc..

And never in all of my life have I had such a hard time killing anyone in PvP as I have had killing a healer in this game.

Even if you can 1on1 a healer it takes so flipping long it's like at least a 2-3 minute fight. That's almost 20% of a match spent doing what, killing one flippin healer? LOL What a joke gimme a break kids.

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.20.2019 , 12:10 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
And Cc’s, interrupts, slows should always be part of the repertoire to take down a healer. You should not be able to just dps them to death or that defeats the purpose and would make them too squishy in a group environment.
If a player uses their classes full abilities they can eventually kill the healer or at least take them out of the game and allow their team to kill the dps.

The problems that I see are people leave the healer to free cast while attacking the dps who already have the strongest DCDs or survivability in the game. Which only takes more pressure off the healer and lets them do massive healing for their team.

The other issue is when you have multiple healers in a match. IMO, that should never happen, even in 8v8.
Healers should either be really good singly or they need to be weaker and be required to have another healer as back up.

Even tank healer combos can be too strong in some cases, but you can use strategy and tactics to drive them apart or isolate them together so they can’t help their team. Which is much harder to do if it’s 2 healers and no tanks.

But add a tank to a multiple healer mix and the game’s a joke unless they are really bad. It just becomes one big parsing exercise and nothing dies. Which seems to be what most people prefer because they can look at the score board and say they did big numbers “dummy” parsing on an unkillable team.


While ever people use dummy parsing tactics and dps farming as a gauge on how “good” they are, we will continue to have most of these problems because people can’t think further than tunnel vision. They really aren’t good players, no matter what they say
I really enjoy how everyone agrees you need to 'play as a team' and focus the healer in order to kill him.

Do you have to 'play as a team' to kill tanks?

Nope.

Do you have to 'play as a team' to kill dps?

Nope.

But you need to play as a team and focus to kill a healer.

Yep, balanced!

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
06.20.2019 , 12:18 AM | #17
zzzzzzzzzzzz


couple things. if you can kill a hlr 1v1 he is bad. not even going to sugar coat it. second, healers take more than one player to kill because game is designed around 2 dps, tnk and hl meta. which means with guard they have to heal through 2 dps and a tnk. third, the only thing imo that would be viable is to remove tanks not healers. I would love to one day fight an arena with 2 dps and a hlr matchup. and lastly this topic is an lol, seriously. healers are the counter to dps, dont like it? dont play online rpgs.

CaptainObvius's Avatar


CaptainObvius
06.20.2019 , 12:54 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by krosswong View Post
Congratulations, you've pulled a healer from another area of contention in the WZ and have a 2 vs 1. This gives your team a definitive advantage somewhere else.

If your group of 8 can not benefit from that, then it's definitely a "git gud" situation.

Thanks for playing though.
But if his teammate shows up that's not a healer, i'm all but guaranteed my kill before I die.

So we trade kills.

If the teammate shows up that is a healer, I die and they still have 2 people instead of 1.

You see how you're still losing right?

Let's say your team doesn't get a kill:

Scenario A) dps shows up, you get kill, you die, it's now 3on3.

Scenario B) healer shows up, you die, it's 4on3.

Let's say your team DOES get a kill when they send another to 2v1 you:

Scenario C) dps shows up, you die, he dies, and your team gets a kill, your team is now in favor 3v2.

Scenario D) healer shows up, you die, he lives, and your team gets a kill, it's now a 3v3.

So no matter HOW you look at it, the healer showing up forces the enemy team in a better position than if a dps or tank had shown up. In Scenario A and C if the supporting person is a DPS, your team is in favor. In Scenario B and D if a healer shows up your team is not in as good of a position.

Thanks for playing though kid. Really glad you thought that one through before posting it.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
06.20.2019 , 04:57 AM | #19
Make a thread about OP healers right around the time on a thread on OP tanks, eh?

What did you try to solo a tank healer combo and it wouldn't work for you? Or better yet, find one of the sad number farming teams that are so pathetic they cant kill a tank healer combo 6v2?

If healing and tanking are so easy, why don't you show us how it's done?

-Highsteel-'s Avatar


-Highsteel-
06.20.2019 , 06:36 AM | #20
I say remove DPS and Tanks and have full healer wz's
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