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Why can't we get set-gear from our own ressources?


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it's kinda sad that we just have to rely on luck on rolling.

and the chances are quite low because every class can use the tokens.

 

therefore everyone will need on them because the winner can rip out the mods and use them for other slots.

 

with this system, I'm not entirely happy^^

you should be able to earn some set gear with comms! that would be fair

 

W

Edited by Wolvereen
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I agree that the decision to gate our access to set gear was very stupid. They compounded that by having the new set-less armorings erase an existing set bonus on a tionese, columi or rakata piece.

 

It's like they designed it specifically to be as obnoxious and frustrating as possible.

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I agree that the decision to gate our access to set gear was very stupid. They compounded that by having the new set-less armorings erase an existing set bonus on a tionese, columi or rakata piece.

 

It's like they designed it specifically to be as obnoxious and frustrating as possible.

 

No, it's like they designed it for raiding to be rewarded. You can simply grind FPs to get similar stats, but if you want the best PVE gear, you have to do the hardest PVE content, as it should be.

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The reason you can not get a set bonus without raiding anymore is simple. It's what steave said. It rewards raiders with the necessary bonuses to continue completing the hardest content in the game. The set-bonus should be thought of as "raid bonus." If you are not raiding then there is no need for a set-bonus. There is no single player or even flashpoint HM that requires players to have the set-bonus: no tight enrage timers, no high burst damage tanks are taking, nothing that would require the additional benefits of raid gear.

 

If you want the set bonus then you can join a guild and run story mode TFB and/or SaV and receive a set-bonus from the arkanian gear. These operations are laughably easy and even a PUG should be able to clear it after a few hours of actual raiding. Heck you don't even need to figure out the strategies, they're all spelled out for you now on dulfy.net.

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Ultimate comms reward the same gear level as raiding, except for the bonus.

 

Tell me more about how easy it is to get ultimate comms if you're not raiding.

 

Tell me also how it would hurt you if they allowed gear sets to be purchasable. Don't forget to mention how it was negatively impacting you in 1.7

 

PVP gearing can't be compared to PVE - in PvE you have to play with other people, so a long gearing process would lock you out from joining late when everyone else is already min-maxed, while in PvP you fight with bolstered gear, so you can decide to join in late and have the same (or easier with the rest of the group already geared) experience as the people that started day 1.

 

That paragraph needed some touching up. Now it's much easier to see how bad your argument is. Set bonuses used to be widely available to players who were doing all group content, with Tionese gear. There was no reason to remove them, certainly no reason to make new gear destroy old bonuses. Basic gear should have had a set bonus that stuck to the gear after black market, etc. gear was slotted in. If you disagree, you probably just got lucky out of the gate with rolls on arkanian drops and want something other players dont have. How mature.

 

Now bring up arguments instead of personal attacks or I'll simply ignore you.

 

If the shoe fits...

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The reason you can not get a set bonus without raiding anymore is simple. It's what steave said. It rewards raiders with the necessary bonuses to continue completing the hardest content in the game. The set-bonus should be thought of as "raid bonus." If you are not raiding then there is no need for a set-bonus.

 

So what was wrong with the old system where set bonuses were obtained from flashpoint gear and comms? Exactly how did it negatively impact anyone?

 

Remember that level 63 gear was only obtainable from raiding (and crafters, a whole other conversation), and that's what you needed to raid NiM. Now you need level 72 gear (level 69 to start doing HM Ops). Good luck getting that without raiding.

 

There is no single player or even flashpoint HM that requires players to have the set-bonus: no tight enrage timers, no high burst damage tanks are taking, nothing that would require the additional benefits of raid gear.

 

There is also no Flashpoint HM that requires gear obtainable with elite comms, but they still reward them.

 

If you want the set bonus then you can join a guild and run story mode TFB and/or SaV and receive a set-bonus from the arkanian gear. These operations are laughably easy and even a PUG should be able to clear it after a few hours of actual raiding. Heck you don't even need to figure out the strategies, they're all spelled out for you now on dulfy.net.

 

If they're as easy as you say - and I agree they are pretty easy - then the set bonus is hardly a big deal and should be purchasable with comms instead of relying on rng. I'm glad we can agree on that point at least.

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There is one problem with this reasoning though (plus one debatable point):

The set bonuses are, for many classes, required to be somewhat playable. They often are not just stat buffs, but actual changes in the way you play your class.

 

Also, it's somewhat stupid that you have to raid to acquire the bonus that, following your reasoning, should allow you to raid in the first place.

 

I'd say, give everybody the "mechanical" set bonuses and add to the raiding sets some passive stat buffs and tune content to take advantage of those.

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The old system was gear was predetermined which class could use it. Making it so some classes could hear up rather quickly while others ha to wait on even more luck for items to drop. The argument that Rollin for gear is unfair is less unfair then when gear was predetermined for classes. If your guild doesn't have a way to hand out gear fairly, or you rely on raiding with pugs you're already shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Going on a story mode raid is not hard as long as you know your class and the bosses. HM FP are there to get you ready for story mode raid operations, story mode is there to get you ready for hard mode operations. Then later hard mode to nightmare mode etc.

 

 

Larry calm down, your personal attacks are unsightly and yes I have reported you for acting out so much.

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Larry calm down, your personal attacks are unsightly and yes I have reported you for acting out so much.

 

Then you need to work on your reading comprehension. I critiqued his comment (not him) and offered some friendly advice.

 

The rest of your comment fails, not surprisingly, to address what exactly the problem was with set bonuses on widely available gear (probably because there was no problem). Bioware has taken something away from the players and I have to wonder of the motivation of the people who approve. Right now my working theory is that they (you?) like having something other players don't. They get their feelings of superiority from a video game, which is pathetic.

 

Until there is an explanation provided for how set bonuses on easily obtained gear damages the game or the players who are raiding current hard modes, I have no choice but to stick with this theory.

Edited by LarryRow
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Let's break this down:

 

1. There is not a single HM Flashpoint encounter that requires the set bonus for any class.

2. The commendations awarded from doing such things do not result in you obtaining the set bonus.

3. There is not a single SM Operation encounter that requires the set bonus for any class.

4. There is a "chance" for you to obtain the set bonus by completing such things, as these instances are designed to prepare you for HM Operations.

5. HM Operations require (for most average players) the set bonus for most classes.

6. There is a "chance" for you to obtain the higher level set bonus by completing such things, as the next instance requires the highest level gear.

 

Bioware designed the gearing in such a way that you work your way through each tier as the level of content prepares you for the next. It is a design decision to make it so you cannot go from HM Flashpoint and SM Operations directly to the highest tier of gear (which is what you are asking for).

 

Frankly, all of the current content can be done using full 61/63 set bonus armorings and do not require the 69/72 set bonus armorings. Your demands for this gear to be handed out to you on a silver platter (purchased) is ridiculous. Despite what you seem to think, you don't need it right now. And you probably won't ever need it as anyone who needs to rely on overgearing the content to complete it should never set foot in a HM/NiM Operation. You have SM Operations which are puggable for average and mediocre players. Stick to that, and leave the "raiding" gear to the players who actually need it.

 

You have already reached the ceiling of your capacities, and gear is not going to help you, even if it was purchasable.

 

Regards,

KK

Edited by Krazy_Karl
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As you pointed out:

Before 2.0 you could craft the BiS gear and put it in free tionese for set bonus. No raiding required.

In 2.0 you can get ultimate comms in weeklies (yes, it will take a long time if you are not raiding, but you have many weeks before new content)

HM FP's drops elite because it's the next step in the progression. SM ops drop Arkanian and Black Market (elite quality) as well, but with set bonus (because it's the next step to HM/NiM ops).

If you could easily acquire set bonus without raiding you could just do the weeklies and put it in the set bonus gear. Gongrats, you got BiS without raiding at all. It takes away the feeling of achieving something for the hard core raiders (or those closest to hard core in SWTOR).

 

I support this, it gives semi raiders a set-bonus and they can get underworld gear, but their armoring will still be arkanian gear. Those who do not raid will not have the set bonus, but can still reach underworld quality gear. Those who raid and clear everything will get underworld gear with underworld armorings (and therefore set bonus).

 

I'm no elitist, and I don't have any set bonus. I have yet to kill kephess HM (still I have done bosses in TFB HM). I have been playing since before launch and I got my first (and only) dread-guard piece 2 weeks before 2.0. I only have an arkanian implant so far from tokens, but I enjoy working for my gear and socializing in my casual guild. I chose to play the game like this, and I like what BioWare did. You get rewarded for what you do (and no insta-BiS for all alts if you only can play sorc healer aka. Legacy BiS from crafting)

 

There goes our reason for supporting this system. Actually wanting to work for what you get is not something only those who have gotten it wants.

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Until there is an explanation provided for how set bonuses on easily obtained gear damages the game or the players who are raiding current hard modes, I have no choice but to stick with this theory.

 

And what, do tell, do you need those set bonuses for if you aren't raiding? HM Flashpoints are already cake in 69 gear. Is it a need to feel special? A need to have everything attainable? Or maybe you just really want to one-shot those mobs from Makeb dailies? Whatever the case, you don't need the gear for the content that you are running, and you won't ever earn it until you either man up and do some operations, or Bioware comes out with a new set of gear and renders this set obsolete.

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The rest of your comment fails, not surprisingly, to address what exactly the problem was with set bonuses on widely available gear (probably because there was no problem).

 

Until there is an explanation provided for how set bonuses on easily obtained gear damages the game or the players who are raiding current hard modes, I have no choice but to stick with this theory.

 

You have yet to explain the problem with the set bonus not being widely available on purchasable gear is causing?

 

Would you please enlighten us on what specifically you are doing that is requiring you to have the set bonus which you are missing?

 

Until you do that, we have no choice but to tell you your theory is wrong.

 

Regards,

KK

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You have yet to explain the problem with the set bonus not being widely available on purchasable gear is causing?

 

Actually I said it many times, but your elitist hat must cover your eyes. Bioware took something away that we used to have, instead of providing a new step in the progression. It was a stupid and needless design decision on their part, which the OP decided to point out.

 

But hold on, here come all the "hardcore raiders" (by the way, I do raid, and have bonuses on a couple of toons) to defend any move by bioware that creates a separation between the haves and the have-nots. Anything they can point to and say, "Look I have this and you don't, so I am good and you are bad," is sacred and must be staunchly protected.

 

Your cute little reversal of my question was a sad attempt to hide this pathetic attitude.....

 

edit: .....although here is an example of you being pretty brazen about it.

 

You have SM Operations which are puggable for average and mediocre players. Stick to that, and leave the "raiding" gear to the players who actually need it.

 

You have already reached the ceiling of your capacities, and gear is not going to help you, even if it was purchasable.

 

Fortunately, the odds of you being on my server are relatively slim.

Edited by LarryRow
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And what, do tell, do you need those set bonuses for if you aren't raiding?

 

You don't. You also don't need level 66 or level 69 gear, which you can get from HM FPs, if you aren't raiding, since the story modes are easily done in full 63s. So I'm confused. Is your point that we should be able to get set bonuses from flashpoints? Or that we shouldn't get 66/69 gear from flashpoints?

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Actually I said it many times, but your elitist hat must cover your eyes. Bioware took something away that we used to have, instead of providing a new step in the progression. It was a stupid and needless design decision on their part, which the OP decided to point out.

 

Actually lets rewind to the beginning. Originally Bioware made it so set bonuses were only obtainable from raiding. So if we use your own logic, it seems the addition of purchasable set bonus gear is the outlier, and things have now been restored to their original design intention.

 

But hold on, here come all the "hardcore raiders" (by the way, I do raid, and have bonuses on a couple of toons) to defend any move by bioware that creates a separation between the haves and the have-nots. Anything they can point to and say, "Look I have this and you don't, so I am good and you are bad," is sacred and must be staunchly protected.

 

There will always be a separation between the haves and the have-nots because there exists different tiers of content which will not be completed by some players. BiS gear should not, and moving forward will not be craftable.

 

I will reiterate that the previous tier of gear and content is the "mistake" and gave players something they should not have had to begin with: BiS raid gear without raiding.

 

Your cute little reversal of my question was a sad attempt to hide this pathetic attitude.....

 

Your argument falls flat once you were asked to provide a valid reason why you need the gear. And as such you cannot so you simply deflect the question with statements implying that it is "elitism" that is preventing you from obtaining the gear.

 

Fortunately, the odds of you being on my server are relatively slim.

 

I count myself fortunate as well I am not on your server.

 

So we have circled back to the original statement. You acknowledge that you do not need the raid gear for anything but raiding. Your whole argument is based upon the fact that you "used to have it" and now you don't. I have proven that the original design intent was that you shouldn't have received it in the first place and it was corrected with 2.0. So therefore your argument is invalid and baseless.

 

Regards,

KK

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Did my first HM 55 yesterday; tanking Cademimu. Found it downright frantic dealing with cc, aggro, how squishy I suddenly am, and new mechanics. We wiped once and had a couple of deaths here and there, but the entire group seemed to be enjoying themselves. Flashpoints are actually a challenge again!

 

You know what I'm not excited about? The entire swtor community gearing past the content to the point that they becomes farm instances, where wipes and slowdowns make group members irritable.

 

I thought it would be good to accurately represent your point of view to the rest of the posters in this thread.

 

There is no point in attempting to have a rational discussion with someone who views HM Flashpoints as a challenge. Although I am confused as to your not looking forward to players overgearing the content, while at the same time advocating the casual players (who mostly only do HM Flashpoints and SM Operations) have access to the BiS gear?

 

Regards,

KK

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Some of your quotes are re-ordered because it made more sense to address them in that order.

 

Actually lets rewind to the beginning. Originally Bioware made it so set bonuses were only obtainable from raiding. So if we use your own logic, it seems the addition of purchasable set bonus gear is the outlier, and things have now been restored to their original design intention.

 

As I recall, the endboss on hard mode flashpoints dropped a tionese token based on what the flashpoint was (e.g., gloves from Taral V) and this piece had a set bonus.

 

Do you have a source to the contrary?

 

I will reiterate that the previous tier of gear and content is the "mistake" and gave players something they should not have had to begin with: BiS raid gear without raiding.

 

Craftable 63's is what enabled people to get BiS raid gear without raiding. The set bonus had nothing to do with that.

 

So we have circled back to the original statement. You acknowledge that you do not need the raid gear for anything but raiding. Your whole argument is based upon the fact that you "used to have it" and now you don't. I have proven that the original design intent was that you shouldn't have received it in the first place and it was corrected with 2.0. So therefore your argument is invalid and baseless.

 

You haven't proven anything. You've just shown that the system is "back" to the way you think it should be. I could just as easily say that making the bonuses more obtainable was the design intent that fixed the original oversight (after all, it was left like that for a much longer time). I always find kids who claim to have "proven" anything on an internet forum to be quite amusing.

 

Your argument falls flat once you were asked to provide a valid reason why you need the gear. And as such you cannot so you simply deflect the question with statements implying that it is "elitism" that is preventing you from obtaining the gear.

 

You need to work on your reading comprehension and debating skills. I clearly said above that I am doing fine obtaining the set bonuses, though I still think the design decision was stupid. With reading skills like that, it's no wonder you claim false proofs and reject valid arguments out of hand.

 

In the end, the set bonuses are unnecessary but they also don't do any harm if they are widely available. So it's a matter of opinion. The OP expressed his frustration and I echoed it. I thought it was really asinine that I had to temporarily give up my set bonuses as part of a progression that earns them back. I suppose I should have expected a wave of people to rush in and stand up for every last bit of game mechanics that allows them to claim superiority over other gamers. The fault was mine for having too much faith in the community.

 

But you have taught me not to make that mistake again.

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Raiding already rewards the best PvE gear. Can't even get it with crafting anymore. Your comment is as stupid as it is elitist. Or do you think that you should decide what "perks" raid gear does and does not have?

 

Meanwhile, the set bonuses in PvP are as easy to get as they ever were.

 

Troll somewhere else, and remember never to go full retard.

 

You sound ridiculous. I'm guessing you're one of those people who believes that you should be able to buy BiS gear as well? Maybe they should make it so you can just buy the set bonus along with the 72 armorings. Why not? Right? The set bonuses in PvP require constant grinding PvP matches to obtain, aka doing the content. What would be the point of raiding over and over if you could just run countless fp's and get the gear? The ONLY reason people make posts like this is because they either can't clear the content, therefore not deserving to have the gear in the first place, or are just lazy.

 

If you can't clear the hardest content, you don't deserve to wear the gear, end of story. Remember pre 2.0 when people would say they were in full "dread" (aka 63s with no set bonus, not being actual dread.) and then you would take them into TFB hm, and they couldn't figure out what to do? Yeah, don't want more of that.

Edited by TrillOG-
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I agree that the decision to gate our access to set gear was very stupid. They compounded that by having the new set-less armorings erase an existing set bonus on a tionese, columi or rakata piece.

 

It's like they designed it specifically to be as obnoxious and frustrating as possible.

 

It is far less frustrating than it was in the days of Rakata before armorings could even be moved. Then you had to hope the piece you wanted for your class dropped off the boss that had a chance to drop it, AND hope you won the roll.

 

Many groups would exclude good players from raids simply because they didn't want to have to roll against them, or to improve the odds of gear for their class dropping.

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LarryRow, I get that you're angry about this, but is it truly necessary to attack people that disagree with you and call them "elitist"?

 

Here's my perspective on this:

 

1. I enjoyed the boon of being able to get Black Hole armorings and put them in my Tionese/Columi gear. It made gearing up my toons a snap. On my first toon, I actually managed to get a set bonus with mostly 61 gear before I got a single piece of Rakata.

 

2. Later I also enjoyed gearing up alts by learning the DG armoring schematic, and popping those bad boys in the free Tionese gear. My Sniper was in fully-optimized-best-in-slot without ever stepping foot in a raid.

 

3. When Bioware changed this for 2.0, the general theory running around was that somebody felt people were gearing up too quickly. The side effect on me personally was, "Well, I guess I'll have to do more raids"

 

Look, anyone can run a bunch of flashpoints, get 69 gear, and pug HM EC these days. There's a post in this very forum that describes a pug that made it all the way through Kephess containing several people that had never done EC before. This will get you Dread Guard with the set bonus.

 

It didn't bother me that it was easy to get top-gear before, and it doesn't bother me that it requires hard work today. I'm not cackling in some corner that all these other fools finally can't get teh berst gearz. I'm am, however, noticing that my desire to run raids increased markedly after 2.0 dropped.

 

I would say, "working as intended"

Edited by Khevar
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I was thrilled to give up my Gunslinger's Tionese set bonuses in favor of better stats. Those set bonuses weren't so hot before, and became utterly worthless in 2.0.

 

Now Guss is wearing that gear. He can't benefit from the set bonuses, like, at all, but that's fine with me. When you get right down to it, neither could I, really.

 

Oh, by the way, before you denigrate me as a bad for my lack of better gear, this character was an alt who hit 50 about ten days before Early Access to 2.0, and has only been my main for the couple of weeks since then.

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I was thrilled to give up my Gunslinger's Tionese set bonuses in favor of better stats. Those set bonuses weren't so hot before, and became utterly worthless in 2.0.

 

....

Illegal Mods restoring 15 energy is actually pretty terrific, both before and after 2.0. The high-dps hybrid Gunslinger has very tight energy requirements, and this can truly be a lifesaver when you have to spend most of your rotation at or above 80%.

 

Takedown (the execute attack) does a LOT of damage, and is an instant cast, 12s ability. The 4-piece set bonus moves Takedown close to the top of the list of "damage per point of energy" attacks.

 

Far from being worthless, the GS set bonus is awesome.

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have some of you ever took a closer look to the crappy stats of the BM gear?

tank items with accuracy or alacrity as second stats? - LMFAO

 

i dunno why BW decided to go back to the stoneage with their decision to remove setgear from vendors O_o

 

even in the dinosaur WoW it's possible to buy setgear from a vendor - not the top tier, but still setgear.

 

it's the reward mechanic, who will keep gamers playing a MMO!

but if you get frustrated all the times instead of being rewarded, then i see no reason to pay and play swtor.

 

some of you said "...you can buy highest tier gear with comms" - yea, but the time i grinded my 2nd or 3rd piece, a new tier will be introduced and make the old gear obsolete.

 

the situation today:

 

- you have to grind comms and buy 6 times or more THE SAME ITEM just to rip out the one enhancement you need^^ - this is just nonsens

 

W

Edited by Wolvereen
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Not trolling here, just being realistic.

 

The end-game gear is meant to be exactly for that: end game, therefore hard to get, and rewarding.

 

PvP relies on you to get lots of commendations by killing things and doing objectives, PvE relies on you working as a team and killing bosses.

 

Level 72 on both sides requires requires you play with the 'best of that side', you need to be good raiders do do TFB HM and S&V HM, and you need to be good at PvP if you want to get into pre-made ranked (since I believe you cannot queue solo for ranked, right?)

 

Both sides have their 'shortcut', PvE is the ultimate comms, to get non-setbonus items, and PvP is doing the weekly and daily for ranked comms, instead of stepping into ranked warzone.

 

If there was no incentive to do either of these (ie. the challenge of killing HM55 Kephess or being in ranked PvP), then why would people do them? If you could achieve end-game gear in non-endgame scenarios, like HM55 Athiss, nobody would ever raid - and people would just farm flashpoints that dont have lockouts.

 

I think your problem is that you're not in a guild - S&V SM and TFB SM groupfinder both only drop 3 pieces of token gear, and some black market- and I can see how that can be annoying, since everyone is going to need on every piece, though - with a guild, things are different, they have rules as to acquiring pieces, when you can need and when you can greed, which usually ends up with "If you didnt get something last week, you will this week."

 

It's not great, but it's the same system in many MMOs, I would rather have tokens that are for everyone, then (if you're from pre-EC you'll get this) seeing that damn bounty hunter mainhand drop for the one merc in the group for the nth time.

 

tldr; find a good guild that can get you into these places, and you'll get your gear.

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