Put a minimum 25% health requirement to activate "Undying Rage".

This balances the class by making their OP'd defense button costly and with only a certain time to be able to use it.

Put a minimum 25% health requirement to activate "Undying Rage".

 

This balances the class by making their OP'd defense button costly and with only a certain time to be able to use it.

any mara that use undying rage above 25% is a fotm mara

so i dont see the point of ur suggestion

I think OP means, only usable above 25% health

this

/5char

Then whats the point of having it?

Btw it alrdy got nerfed to 4 secs instead of 5, so, hate to say it, but thats another l2p issue

Stop blowing your stuns and knockbacks. Trigger happy fingers make for a dead toon.

A stun for when u use "ravage", another for when u use "saber Ward" or "Pain Cloack" or you use your "i'm gonna **** ur face" buff...OH! I'M A VANGUARD!! I HAVE NOT MORE STUNS! I am a dummy when u use Undying Rage.

A stun for when u use "ravage", another for when u use "saber Ward" or "Pain Cloack" or you use your "i'm gonna **** ur face" buff...OH! I'M A VANGUARD!! I HAVE NOT MORE STUNS! I am a dummy when u use Undying Rage.

So you blow a stun when someone uses saberward? What you don't have a 12sec 25% dmg reduction shield yourself? Oh you do! And you are a ranged so you should be kiting, especially when we get low on health. Look I know it's hard and I'm not being sarcastic about it. But you have the tools to nulify us. And between me and you, I don't use Ravage unless it's another melee. The reason is that when I use Ravage you can eat the 1st portion of the damage and take that time to break distance, keeping me out of the 4m range, perfect for kiting. I avoid using ravage for that specific reason. Granted I'm not the typical Anni Marauder either, but that's a different story.

You gotta work with what you have and unless you get rooted by a Carnage Marauder, don't blow your cc on Ravage, just run away. Then kite. As a Vanguard you should be destroying all Carnage and Rage Maras, they are retardedly easy to 1v1. Annihilation is trickier but with good kiting you stand a very very very good chance, you just have to use your abilities appropriately. GL!

So you blow a stun when someone uses saberward? What you don't have a 12sec 25% dmg reduction shield yourself? Oh you do! And you are a ranged so you should be kiting, especially when we get low on health. Look I know it's hard and I'm not being sarcastic about it. But you have the tools to nulify us. And between me and you, I don't use Ravage unless it's another melee. The reason is that when I use Ravage you can eat the 1st portion of the damage and take that time to break distance, keeping me out of the 4m range, perfect for kiting. I avoid using ravage for that specific reason. Granted I'm not the typical Anni Marauder either, but that's a different story.

 

You gotta work with what you have and unless you get rooted by a Carnage Marauder, don't blow your cc on Ravage, just run away. Then kite. As a Vanguard you should be destroying all Carnage and Rage Maras, they are retardedly easy to 1v1. Annihilation is trickier but with good kiting you stand a very very very good chance, you just have to use your abilities appropriately. GL!

Dude....vanguard is MELEE. And I swear every time a marauder starts his "ravage" THERE'S NO WAY you can run. The last hit always strikes you if you are in 10m range.

Your saber ward is 100 times better than my Shield. Mine only gives 25% damage absortion....saber ward gives that 25% and +50% defense so all that I can see when we both are using it is "deflect deflect deflect, parry, deflect"

Dude....vanguard is MELEE. And I swear every time a marauder starts his "ravage" THERE'S NO WAY you can run. The last hit always strikes you if you are in 10m range.

 

 

Your saber ward is 100 times better than my Shield. Mine only gives 25% damage absortion....saber ward gives that 25% and +50% defense so all that I can see when we both are using it is "deflect deflect deflect, parry, deflect"

It depends on the Vanguard tree. Vanguards are not melee if they spec Assault specialist you are capable of 10m kiting. Maybe you spec Tactics, in which case you need to kite and only engage the melee when they get back into the 4m range. I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs and the majority of the good ones put up very high numbers.

My Saberward gives me 50% defense and 25% force/tech reduction. It does not give me 25% overall damage reduction like your shield does, meaning while I do have 50% more chance to dodge a melee attack, if it hits me then I'll eat the full brunt of it.

Lastly, instead of arguing with me about how unfair it is to fight Maras, go to the Vanguard forum section and ask for some tips for engaging Maras/Sents. I gave you some good ones, and I said get out of range unless it is a Carnage Marauder. Hell use your knockback. But don't say stuff like "well you can't get away from that last hit" because that is simply not true and good players break distance as soon as a Marauder is on them.

I don't know, maybe you need to remove backpeddling, maybe start using strafing instead of keyboard turning, which is what you should be doing anyways. Trying to help you here, but you just seem to lay blame when I know that the good PTs on my server eat Maras/Sents for breakfast (except me, but again that is a different story). Gotta start kiting.

It depends on the Vanguard tree. Vanguards are not melee if they spec Assault specialist you are capable of 10m kiting. Maybe you spec Tactics, in which case you need to kite and only engage the melee when they get back into the 4m range. I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs and the majority of the good ones put up very high numbers.

 

My Saberward gives me 50% defense and 25% force/tech reduction. It does not give me 25% overall damage reduction like your shield does, meaning while I do have 50% more chance to dodge a melee attack, if it hits me then I'll eat the full brunt of it.

 

Lastly, instead of arguing with me about how unfair it is to fight Maras, go to the Vanguard forum section and ask for some tips for engaging Maras/Sents. I gave you some good ones, and I said get out of range unless it is a Carnage Marauder. Hell use your knockback. But don't say stuff like "well you can't get away from that last hit" because that is simply not true and good players break distance as soon as a Marauder is on them.

 

I don't know, maybe you need to remove backpeddling, maybe start using strafing instead of keyboard turning, which is what you should be doing anyways. Trying to help you here, but you just seem to lay blame when I know that the good PTs on my server eat Maras/Sents for breakfast (except me, but again that is a different story). Gotta start kiting.

I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs and the majority of the good ones put up very high numbers.

I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs

Hell use your knockback

knockback

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5485/stopreadingthere.jpg

Sounds like a claim that the lesser spotted Merc/mando with the 360* knockback and the 4s stun can fight marauders?

And now with an even worse chance to slow (30% for 2s) than ever before.

Meanwhile you mustn't hit the Maurauder while he has Cloak of Pain up (6s but can be up to 30s if you hit him)

Can't do anything while he has Undying Rage up (4s)

Lose target, damage and distance if he uses Force Camouflage

Lose distance and get interrupted by Force Charge

Get your damage completely trashed for 6s if he uses Obfuscate (Power Shot/Railshot/Unload and Rapid Shots now miss)

And there's the bog standard Sabre Ward which is the basic shield thing which sponges damage somewhat like the merc/mando shield.

Plus the amusing thingy that a marauder can self heal for a lot more than a merc/mando while fighting.

Reminds me, about the hilariously weak, short, slow the merc/mando has.

50% for 12 seconds solid just takes the cake

One of the main reasons for fixing things so that stuns are less able to overload a resolve bar was that a marauder with a full resolve bar was basically unstoppable.

Sounds like a claim that the lesser spotted Merc/mando with the 360* knockback and the 4s stun can fight marauders?

 

And now with an even worse chance to slow (30% for 2s) than ever before.

 

Meanwhile you mustn't hit the Maurauder while he has Cloak of Pain up (6s but can be up to 30s if you hit him)

Can't do anything while he has Undying Rage up (4s)

Lose target, damage and distance if he uses Force Camouflage

Lose distance and get interrupted by Force Charge

Get your damage completely trashed for 6s if he uses Obfuscate (Power Shot/Railshot/Unload and Rapid Shots now miss)

And there's the bog standard Sabre Ward which is the basic shield thing which sponges damage somewhat like the merc/mando shield.

Plus the amusing thingy that a marauder can self heal for a lot more than a merc/mando while fighting.

 

Reminds me, about the hilariously weak, short, slow the merc/mando has.

 

50% for 12 seconds solid just takes the cake

 

 

One of the main reasons for fixing things so that stuns are less able to overload a resolve bar was that a marauder with a full resolve bar was basically unstoppable.

What is a mando? That's not even a class. Lesser spotted Merc/Mando? *** is that, some species? The lesser spotted mando?

The cloak works within 4m range, you shouldn't be in melee range with a Marauder in the first place. Force Cameo is one ability, Merc's have a root for creating distance. Merc's play a supporting role, not a melee front line tank role.

What does anything you're saying ANYTHING at all with the 25% HP Requirement for Undying Rage? I feel like I just got trolled.

What is a mando? That's not even a class. Lesser spotted Merc/Mando? *** is that, some species? The lesser spotted mando?

 

The cloak works within 4m range, you shouldn't be in melee range with a Marauder in the first place. Force Cameo is one ability, Merc's have a root for creating distance. Merc's play a supporting role, not a melee front line tank role.

 

What does anything you're saying ANYTHING at all with the 25% HP Requirement for Undying Rage? I feel like I just got trolled.

Mercenary / Commando, lesser spotted in warzones. Flew past you there.

Shouldn't be in melee range, interesting since thats exactly what melee tries to do. Have a root on a 4m ability which breaks on damage on the worst pvp branch?

You know those classes well then and I turned up because of your understanding that a vanguard has a knockback.

Mercenary / Commando, lesser spotted in warzones. Flew past you there.

 

Shouldn't be in melee range, interesting since thats exactly what melee tries to do. Have a root on a 4m ability which breaks on damage on the worst pvp branch?

 

You know those classes well then and I turned up because of your understanding that a vanguard has a knockback.

Yeah that mando thing flew over my head.

Vanguard has an extra stun instead of a knockback. The Merc root is there to root and kite, not to root and unload. It allows the Merc to try to run away. Mercs are not designed as a 1v1 class, they provide devastating support DPS and heals. So if you're a Merc and you think you can 1v1 a Mara, umm no you should kite and run away.

I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs and the majority of the good ones put up very high numbers.

I know plenty about Vanguards and Powertechs

Hell use your knockback

knockback

 

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/5485/stopreadingthere.jpg

I was thinking the same xDD

VANGUARD DON'T HAVE KNOCKBACK

And 10m range IS NOT RANGED! It's melee. A mara can jump me in 10m range.

There's no way a PT/Assault Vanguard kite a marauder. The only one think you can do is try to kill him praying for him to have all his defensive skills on CD.

pd: On Vanguard forums the "conclussion" about "how to kite a marauder Rage as an Assault Vanguard" was "U cannot kite a marauder being Assault vanguard".

I was thinking the same xDD

 

 

VANGUARD DON'T HAVE KNOCKBACK

 

And 10m range IS NOT RANGED! It's melee. A mara can jump me in 10m range.

There's no way a PT/Assault Vanguard kite a marauder. The only one think you can do is try to kill him praying for him to have all his defensive skills on CD.

 

 

 

pd: On Vanguard forums the "conclussion" about "how to kite a marauder Rage as an Assault Vanguard" was "U cannot kite a marauder being Assault vanguard".

That's not true, you are certainly doing it wrong. Again, I know at least 4 PTs off top of my head that can kite any Mara/Sent (minus myself).

10m is a mid-range, it isn't melee. Melee is 4m. 10m is a kitable range.

That's not true, you are certainly doing it wrong. Again, I know at least 4 PTs off top of my head that can kite any Mara/Sent (minus myself).

 

10m is a mid-range, it isn't melee. Melee is 4m. 10m is a kitable range.

Kitable range vs your 2 Leaps and crush and another slow mo skill and your +30% speed buff when u are invisibru......yeeeeeeeeah, kitable.

Those "PT" u know surelly are using the "Tactics" (republic side) tree witch has 1 skill that allows the Vanguard/PT to run more and cannot be slowed. I'm not using that tree and I can't use it now cause my WH gear is focused on Assault.

Kitable range vs your 2 Leaps and crush and another slow mo skill and your +30% speed buff when u are invisibru......yeeeeeeeeah, kitable.

 

Those "PT" u know surelly are using the "Tactics" (republic side) tree witch has 1 skill that allows the Vanguard/PT to run more and cannot be slowed. I'm not using that tree and I can't use it now cause my WH gear is focused on Assault.

No the PTs are using the damage over time tree, the Pyrotech tree, not the middle Tactics trees. It is the same as your Assault tree.

Oh ok so you're exclusively talking about the Focus/Rage spec, gotcha. I was under the assumption that you meant Sents/Maras in general. In that case my answer is very simple, you should be able to solo 1v1 any Focus/Rage Mara/Sent or Jugg/Guard... period!

If you can't solo a Rage Marauder then it is a L2P issue. You're right, you probably won't be able to kite a Rage/Focus spec. You should most definitely be able to kill them 1on1, if not then it's a skill issue.

I consider Carnage & Rage as cannon fodder without a pocket healer, very low opinion of their survivability. Good PTs destroy Rage spec 1on1. Can't make it any more clear than that.

No the PTs are using the damage over time tree, the Pyrotech tree, not the middle Tactics trees. It is the same as your Assault tree.

 

Oh ok so you're exclusively talking about the Focus/Rage spec, gotcha. I was under the assumption that you meant Sents/Maras in general. In that case my answer is very simple, you should be able to solo 1v1 any Focus/Rage Mara/Sent or Jugg/Guard... period!

 

If you can't solo a Rage Marauder then it is a L2P issue. You're right, you probably won't be able to kite a Rage/Focus spec. You should most definitely be able to kill them 1on1, if not then it's a skill issue.

 

I consider Carnage & Rage as cannon fodder without a pocket healer, very low opinion of their survivability. Good PTs destroy Rage spec 1on1. Can't make it any more clear than that.

Everybody says "you shouuld be able to kill them" but nobody remembers they can deal +6k Dmg every time they use Smash -.-

Everybody says "you shouuld be able to kill them" but nobody remembers they can deal +6k Dmg every time they use Smash -.-

Everyone knows about the monster Smash/Forcesweep, if you can't get past that then it sounds like a personal problem.

That's not true, you are certainly doing it wrong. Again, I know at least 4 PTs off top of my head that can kite any Mara/Sent (minus myself).

So, not sure if you can see the paradox you throw up here.

On the one hand you say "L2P, a powertech can kite a mara" then on the other you say "except me," which I'm sure reading between the lines of your own bragging, means that presumably because you have L2P a mara, and thus there is nothing they can do at all, because you know you have enough anti-kiting tools to stop it happening.

So clearly, what you are saying is that mara's can't be kited by powertechs assuming perfect play, and thus it isn't a L2P issue.

Of course, having stated a powertech has a knockback, one wonders whether we should be seeking advice from you in the first place.

In any case, maras are a broken class, amazing dps coupled with amazing defensive CDs, that aren't even needed in PvE, and even less so for PvP, to maintain some sort of balance between classes. But that's another issue.

So, not sure if you can see the paradox you throw up here.

 

On the one hand you say "L2P, a powertech can kite a mara" then on the other you say "except me," which I'm sure reading between the lines of your own bragging, means that presumably because you have L2P a mara, and thus there is nothing they can do at all, because you know you have enough anti-kiting tools to stop it happening.

 

So clearly, what you are saying is that mara's can't be kited by powertechs assuming perfect play, and thus it isn't a L2P issue.

 

Of course, having stated a powertech has a knockback, one wonders whether we should be seeking advice from you in the first place.

 

In any case, maras are a broken class, amazing dps coupled with amazing defensive CDs, that aren't even needed in PvE, and even less so for PvP, to maintain some sort of balance between classes. But that's another issue.

I use a very unconventional approach in PVP such that I rarely use Ravage, whereas the majority of Mara/Sent players swear by how incredibly powerful it is. Yeah it hits hard, but when you allow your opponent to break 4m range, as a 4m melee you're screwed and allow good players to kite you. I get kited enough, I just try to limit those opportunities for my opponents. Secondly I am an anomoly on my server as other Maras don't quite pull my numbers. I've posted a thread on my server forums to help my fellow players get better at being Annihilation spec and to create a dialogue for players on my server, without trolling. This thread was moved to the general Marauder forum by a mod. I am far from an elitist and try to help fellow players get better. This was why I argued for kiting because that is the only way to beat a 4m melee class. The elite level PTs that I run premades with can do this to pretty much any player on my server. My guild held a 1v1 tourney about a month ago where me and a fellow guildie PT had an extremely close result. I beat him 3 times, he beat me 2wice. It was literally me, him, me, him, me. It is very do-able.

I never said Maras can't be kited, I said the opposite.

Stop blowing your stuns and knockbacks. Trigger happy fingers make for a dead toon.

That is my original quote. It wasn't referencing Vanguards or PTs, it was referencing players who blow their abilities and are left defenseless. Could be Sages or Assassins or Mercs, it doesn't matter, it was referencing general poor PVP play. I can understand if you never read that or linked the two together.

Finally, Maras/Sents are not OP. The majority are bads, it is a complex class to play well, similarly to Madness Assassins. The problem is that players refuse to learn how to kite, players refuse to play evasively, players refuse to unbind backpeddle, players refuse to strafe, players refuse to use the mouse for navigation. This in addition to having a gaming mouse and a fundamental understanding of rotations and abilitiy combinations, poor execution of cooldowns, and often inexperience.

That's the bottom line. As a PT or Vanguard or Madness-Assassin or Balance-Shadow, you are a 10m range class. If you can't kite at 10m it is STRICTLY l2p. Plenty of amazing PTs, but few Madness Assassins because they have a very complex and intensive rotation (very rare to see elite Madness Assassin PVP), who own melee classes. Learn to kite. Don't stand still. Unbind backpeddle. Rebind A and D to strafe left and strafe right. And learn to keep the melee classes out of 4m and within 10m range. I can't make it any clearer than that. If you continue to QQ and refuse to become a better player, that is on you. I can only give you so much advice to beat a Mara. It is ridiculous that you guys are refusing to kite. ***? You want a E Z WIN button? A 10k railshot? Go practice kiting.

You know what I did with my buddy who rolled a hybrid Sorc, the bane of my melee class, I went to the Outlaw's Den and we spent a couple of sessions with me getting stunlocked and attempting to kill him. Suffice to say he dies at my hands alot now, hybrid spec or not. Less QQ, more Pew Pew. Go out there and get better! I'm f-ing cheering for you guys to get better.