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Lightning / Telekinetics Set Bonuses and Tactical Items

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Lightning / Telekinetics Set Bonuses and Tactical Items
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DarthCognusSion's Avatar


DarthCognusSion
04.16.2019 , 06:10 PM | #11
After giving some time and thought about the proposed tactical items and new set bonuses, I have come up with some ideas that I think would go along with what i perceive the team wants from these changes. Additionally, since it has already become a topic of discussion in this thread, as it has long been in others, I will also try to give my thoughts on the problem with Sorcerer survivability and its cooldowns.

Tactical Items:
Spoiler

Set Bonuses:

These will focus on the set bonus style that currently exists. I understand that Bioware is attempting to make multiple set bonuses for different aspects of the game. MIGHT I SUGGEST YOU USE THIS TO HELP TO ADDRESS DISCREPANCIES IN PVP AND PVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's start off with the current set bonus.

Spoiler


Here is what I would suggest:
Keep in mind that I will not be including Madness/Balance aspects to this. I may post a similar thing for Madness/Balance later, but these suggestions are purely focused on Lightning.

Spoiler


Additional thoughts:

Spoiler


Defensive Cooldowns:

Spoiler
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kerplunkcatt's Avatar


kerplunkcatt
04.16.2019 , 06:43 PM | #12
I am going to refrain from the set bonus conversation in this thread, as it sounds like the set bonuses are heading into being used by like disciplines, and will no longer have class specific buffs on them. I mainly wanted to post some ideas that I have for the Sorc tactical items.

So, from my understanding, each Spec is going to have some amount of tactical items to promote diversity of play, while also updating the way that each spec feels without adding to ability bloat. So, from that understanding I think some multiple of 3 would be the way to go.

For example, if you had three for Lightning, you could have one that increases defensive abilities to promote survival, one that promotes DPS (or in other specs the efficacy of the role) and one that is a happy medium between those.

My specific examples are such:

1. Firstly, I wanted to look at the DPS side of the tactical slots. What I was thinking is something along the lines of this:

Static barrier can no longer be used on friendly targets, and now has a 25 second cooldown. You can now apply your static barrier to an enemy target. Once applied, your next direct damaging ability used on that target will "detonate" the barrier, dealing x amount of damage, and stun normal or weak enemies for 1 second.

My reasoning for this is sort of the "Glass cannon" that I've always seen the sorc as. You would sacrifice one of your stronger defensive abilities for something that could be used in the same way as explosive probe.

2. Secondly, I will take a look at the "Survivable" one, for people that want to live through the fight.

Unnatural preservation 1% more for every 2% of missing health you have, also using UP places a static barrier on you that is irrespective of the current 'Deionized' debuff.

This will give you an "Off-GCD" heal and static barrier, increasing survivability without sacrificing uptime.

3. Lastly, we will look at the "Versatile" one.

Increases the amount of damage absorbed by your Static Barrier by x%. Also, while "deionized" increase the damage dealt by Lightning Bolt, Thundering Blast, Chain Lightning, and Shock by x%.


My thoughts for all of these are simple: as a DPS in PVE content, I feel that Static Barrier is underutilized. Being that it costs a GCD to do, and provides only moderate protection I find myself pushing my DPS to a limit to beat enrage timers with little extra time to use defensives such as SB.

My argument is not that SB is or is not good currently, but that it is hard to justify the cast when boss enrage is on the line. If I was to have a favorite of the three that I have listed, it would be the "Static Barrier as an Explosive Probe" option. There is something alluring to me about being a squishy-burst-god, instead of trying to make sorcs more survivable.
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Mzuta's Avatar


Mzuta
04.16.2019 , 08:47 PM | #13
What about something that also changes force lighting color based on your alignments if you're lightside it will look like arcann's force judgement if your neutral it'll be white if you hit the first level of darkside it turns blue until the 3rd lvl darkside purple lighting and if your full darkside red sith lighting.

fabsus's Avatar


fabsus
04.17.2019 , 05:48 AM | #14
in my opinion, the actual lightning sorc doesn't really fit in the game meta.
it is no real dot and no real burst dps. so this could be a part, we could work on.

more dot'y lightning sorc:
there are 2 dots you are playing with. affliction and crushing darkness.
- affliction, no changes
- thundering blast, no changes
- crushing darkness now is dealing the damage within 4 seconds and grants forced darkness
- chain lightning delivers and arc of lightning up to 8 targets in range; spreads afflicition and crushing
darkness. if affliction is on the target, every hit is critically. the damage is 100% on the first target and reduced by 25% each next hit. (100/75/56/42/32/24/18/13%),

single target lightning sorc:
- affliction, no changes
- thundering blast, hits critically with affliction on it. sets a debuff lightning collector bomb, stays 18 second.
renews lightning capacitor
- lightning capacitor collects 10 charges on an enemy. by reaching 10 charges, the capacitor explodes and deals 285% damage of chain lightning (loads are calculated with 75/56/42/... ). exploding capacitor will add capacitors on up to 8 enemies within 8m range
- crushing darkness now deals the damage directy, grants forced darkness
- lightning flash additionally adds 1 charge to lightning capacitor
- lightning bolt additionally adds 1 charge to lightning capacitor
- shock overcharges lightning capacitor and makes it explode all current charges.
- force lightning charges 1 charge per hit
- chain lightning charges 7 charges, hits critically with affliction on it.
- recklessness charges lightning capacitor with 10 charges
Disclaimer: This is my opinion.
http://www.swtor.com/r/cyZhrF <--This is my Ref-Link. Feel free to ignore or benefit from it.

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
04.17.2019 , 10:13 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by kerplunkcatt View Post

Static barrier can no longer be used on friendly targets, and now has a 25 second cooldown. You can now apply your static barrier to an enemy target. Once applied, your next direct damaging ability used on that target will "detonate" the barrier, dealing x amount of damage, and stun normal or weak enemies for 1 second.
Plus 1 for this. I love this idea.
Quote: Originally Posted by Spasi View Post
<rudeness idiocy snipped>
This is exactly what I want. It's a suggestion forum and extreme suggestions if accepted can be altered. That's what suggestions groups are for. You seem incapable of understanding that and have resorted to insults rather than constructive criticism. And I'm not your "mate". Another for the ignore list.
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Ollmich's Avatar


Ollmich
04.17.2019 , 11:30 AM | #16
I’d like this class being a bit more bursty so here’re some ideas for Tactical Items.

Mental Alacrity / Polarity Shift:
  • Both CD and duration of MA / PS are descreased (e.g. CD: 30 sec, duration: 5 sec) and it makes every casted / channeled ability instant
  • OR both CD and duration of MA / PS are descreased (e.g. CD: 1 min, duration: 10 sec) and it grants immunity to all controlling effects

Mind Crush / Crushing Darkness:
  • When Telekinetic Throw / Force Lightning is used on target affected by MC / CD its damage output is significantly increased
  • OR when Telekinetic Burst / Lightning Bolt is used on target affected by MC / CD it has 100% chance to hit the target twice, and 2nd hit would damage the target for 70% of the 1st hit.

I also like that Chain Lightning example.

Quote: Originally Posted by rolandps View Post
One demand I do have is for sorcerers in general: If Phasewalk cannot be used, it should not be removed from its placed position. It simply shouldn't be triggered.
Yes please!

DarthCognusSion's Avatar


DarthCognusSion
04.18.2019 , 11:59 AM | #17
I'm going to put this here but I think this could apply to all Sorcerer/Sage disciplines.

Dark Side Nexus - Placing your Phase Walk down creates a Dark Side Nexus on the ground with a 3m radius. While standing in the Dark Side Nexus you gain 1% increased critical chance, critical multiplier, and alacrity every 3 seconds, stacking up to 10 times. You lose all stacks upon leaving the Dark Side Nexus.
Failure l That's Toxic
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DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
04.19.2019 , 07:11 AM | #18
Notes: Some of these ideas conflict with each other. I'm just providing options. I have also included some desired QoL changes. These ideas are primarily based on PvE content and based on my experience as a sorc main nightmare raider.

Tactical Items
- Lightning Arcs: When your lightning attacks fork, they now also deal this forked damage to enemies within 8m of the original target and the base chance for forks is increased by 25%. In addition, Chain Lightning now spreads Affliction.
- Barrage of Lightning: Bring back some form of the original Lightning Barrage proc where Force Lightning channels and ticks twice as fast but have it proc whenever Affliction's duration is refreshed instead of being RNG based. The proc should also apply to Force Storm.
- Raging Thunder: When Thundering Blast critically hits, the target is knocked back. Overload also now knocks back targets further.

QoL Improvements
- Shock needs to be better integrated into Lightning's discipline passives including: Forked Lightning (and subsequently Chaos Nexus and Conduction), Focal Lightning, Reverberating Force, Charged Reaction, Fulgurous Fortification.
- The need to apply Affliction in order to use Thundering Blast makes target swapping much worse while there is already enough incentive to apply affliction based purely on the DPS it does and how it gets automatically refreshed. Affliction needs to deal some base damage up front like Retractable Blade on PT. Alternatively, Thundering Blast could also autocrit on any enemies lower than Champion level but still require affliction for
- Lightning Storm should not proc off of Lightning Strike/Bolt. This almost always ruins the rotation (since it should be proccing off of Thundering Blast.
- The Convulsing Currents passive should grant a proc that increases the damage of the next Shock instead of requiring the target to currently be affected by Crushing Darkness. Sometimes Crushing Darkness is cast on one target but you need to switch targets before using Shock. This is not necessarily due to the target dying, Shock currently does not have a high enough spot in ability priority so you either miss out on the buffed Shock, delay Crushing Darkness, or do awkward fast target swapping.
- RNG from the forks and the influence of this on reducing the cooldown of Polarity Shift cause the spec to vary in output quite a lot, basically 6.25% of the damage of each ability is up to RNG. The spec should deal slightly more damage than its less RNG centric brethren so that this is less costly in a raid. Alternatively, some of the damage could be migrated away from the forks and into the primary ability damage, so maybe attacks do 5% more damage normally and forks have a 25% chance to do an extra 5% damage.
- Focal Lightning is dumb, all the alacrity increasing specs are dumb and should be removed and replaced with something else. It's especially dumb for Lightning because you still end up wanting to take a bit more alacrity than you should need to anyway. You could solve this and the forked RNG issue at the same time by replacing Focal Lightning with a new passive: Storm Brewing. When an ability fails to fork, the next time that ability forks it will deal an additional 25% damage and the chance to fork for that ability is increased by an additional 25%. Basically the chance to fork should be a question of when not a question of if.
- Non-consumable procs that are not dependent on an ability being active need to be toned down across the board (mainly damage reduction procs). If they're intended to have 100% uptime if you're doing the rotation correctly, then give them 100% uptime by making them passives. In Lightning, this would mean making Charged Reaction force regeneration, Fulgurous Fortification damage reduction, and Focal Lightning alacrity (especially this one) procs passive bonuses instead of procs that can fall off. It just clutters your buff bar. Procs like Lightning Effusion and the damage reduction active during Deionized can stay.

Lightning Barrier and Force Barrier
- If you try to bubble yourself while you still have a bubble from someone else (deionized has fallen off), activating the bubble will not provide you with Lightning Barrier as it should. The Lightning Barrier shows up for a second and then gets immediately removed.
- Force Barrier has transformed from being one of the strongest "cheese abilities" when it came out to being one of the worst since everyone else got reflects. I only use it if I am fairly certain I will die because you lose DPS when you use it. To remedy this problem, Lightning Barrier Should be active while Force Barrier is being channeled and during Enduring Bastion and should deal 1.5x damage so that it isn't a DPS loss.
- Sage needs a different animation for the Lightning Barrier equivalent, it looks ridiculous and entirely out of place for the class. I think it would even look better if they had the Republic equivalent of Pyro Shield animation.
- Force Barrier could also have some sort of additional AoE effect to players/enemies within 8m depending on the discipline. In heal spec it could provide some AoE healing. In Madness it could provide some sort of pulsating AoE damage like the Styrak and the Dread Council do in their burn phases alongside some sort of slow. Lightning could have a super electrified barrier that could knock enemies far away (like Force Push far) and deal a substantial amount of damage.

DarthCognusSion's Avatar


DarthCognusSion
04.19.2019 , 12:20 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEndonae View Post
QoL Improvements
- Shock needs to be better integrated into Lightning's discipline passives including: Forked Lightning (and subsequently Chaos Nexus and Conduction), Focal Lightning, Reverberating Force, Charged Reaction, Fulgurous Fortification.
- The need to apply Affliction in order to use Thundering Blast makes target swapping much worse while there is already enough incentive to apply affliction based purely on the DPS it does and how it gets automatically refreshed. Affliction needs to deal some base damage up front like Retractable Blade on PT. Alternatively, Thundering Blast could also autocrit on any enemies lower than Champion level but still require affliction for
- Lightning Storm should not proc off of Lightning Strike/Bolt. This almost always ruins the rotation (since it should be proccing off of Thundering Blast.
- The Convulsing Currents passive should grant a proc that increases the damage of the next Shock instead of requiring the target to currently be affected by Crushing Darkness. Sometimes Crushing Darkness is cast on one target but you need to switch targets before using Shock. This is not necessarily due to the target dying, Shock currently does not have a high enough spot in ability priority so you either miss out on the buffed Shock, delay Crushing Darkness, or do awkward fast target swapping.
- RNG from the forks and the influence of this on reducing the cooldown of Polarity Shift cause the spec to vary in output quite a lot, basically 6.25% of the damage of each ability is up to RNG. The spec should deal slightly more damage than its less RNG centric brethren so that this is less costly in a raid. Alternatively, some of the damage could be migrated away from the forks and into the primary ability damage, so maybe attacks do 5% more damage normally and forks have a 25% chance to do an extra 5% damage.
- Focal Lightning is dumb, all the alacrity increasing specs are dumb and should be removed and replaced with something else. It's especially dumb for Lightning because you still end up wanting to take a bit more alacrity than you should need to anyway. You could solve this and the forked RNG issue at the same time by replacing Focal Lightning with a new passive: Storm Brewing. When an ability fails to fork, the next time that ability forks it will deal an additional 25% damage and the chance to fork for that ability is increased by an additional 25%. Basically the chance to fork should be a question of when not a question of if.
- Non-consumable procs that are not dependent on an ability being active need to be toned down across the board (mainly damage reduction procs). If they're intended to have 100% uptime if you're doing the rotation correctly, then give them 100% uptime by making them passives. In Lightning, this would mean making Charged Reaction force regeneration, Fulgurous Fortification damage reduction, and Focal Lightning alacrity (especially this one) procs passive bonuses instead of procs that can fall off. It just clutters your buff bar. Procs like Lightning Effusion and the damage reduction active during Deionized can stay.
I'm not trying to start an argument, but these are not QoL improvements you are asking for here, they are just things you personally don't like about lightning. I agree with your first comments about shock, and to some extent the fork procs, but everything else here just seems to be your personal pet peeves about the discipline.

Focal Lightning is not dumb at all. 5% free alacrity is huge. I think it would be cool if the alacrity aspect of lightning were highlighted even more, not taken away. It is part of the spec's identity.

The issues with affliction for thundering blast and shock with crushing darkness are all about optimizing play. As someone who plays Sorc at a NiM level as you say you do, these should be trivial things to do at this point. Being able to do these things is a matter of proper target swapping, keeping affliction on multiple targets up at a time, and effectively using your procs to maximize damage. This spec doesn't need to be dumbed down, it needs new and interesting mechanics added to spice it up again. General rule: add, don't take away.

As far as non rotational buffs such as damage reduction and force regen, they are just that, buffs. They are not procs, and they shouldn't just be made passives. The rotation needs other abilities such that keeping them up is more of a reward for correct play, but lightning shouldn't just get 15% free damage reduction and 30% increased force regen for nothing. It isn't like it's currently hard to maintain them, so I don't understand what the problem is with self buffs as a result of correct rotation execution.

Lightning has problem areas that need addressing. I'm not saying it doesn't need some love because it definitely does. Overall damage, effective raid damage, raid utility, rotation complexity (it's too simple and unrewarding) are all issues that this discipline has, along with some others. I'm just pointing out the things you bring up shouldn't be considered priorities, or in my opinion problems at all, when there are clearly more pressing concerns with the spec.
Failure l That's Toxic
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Delani's Avatar


Delani
04.19.2019 , 11:37 PM | #20
At the end of the day, players in the star wars universe want to feel powerful. They want to feel like Gods, so why not make them feel like that. Lightning Sorcerers should be given the same aoe lightning attack that Vaylin has when you fight her in the final chapter right before the Valkorian fight. That animation is amazing and allows the player to feel dominate. While that ability is up, the player using the ability should take 20% less damage and do 5%dmg to all targets that are within her 10 meter diameter. Let the players feel like they truly are the emperor of the Eternal Throne and the Supreme Dictator of the galaxy.