My question to everyone is "Who contributed more to the world of Sci-Fi?"

Frank Herbert with the Dune series?

George Lucas with Star Wars?

Gene Roddenberry with Star Trek?

Also, I'm curious as to why you think the author of your choice is the best. I'm going to remain completely neutral here. Have fun.

Funny thing is, as much hate exists between Trek and Wars fans, one without the other couldn't exist, Star Trek inspired Sci-Fi for a long time, but it basically died out TOS of Star Trek was over, but when Star Wars hit, it reinvigorated the entire genre and that opened the window to continue it and then start up TNG, which led to DS9, VOY and ENT, both of them together, put Sci-Fi into the position it is today.

Also I think you left two major names out, Cameron and Spielberg.

I fell asleep everytime i tried to watch Dune....so i figure trying to read it would put me into a coma. Dont know much about Herbet other than Dune.

I respect Roddenberry a great deal for his vision and contributions to the genre....still dont enjoy Trek, and trekkies....go suck a spock.

Dont care what the bandwagon internet hipster haters say, Lucas weaved together the universe that i love (with alot of help, but he is the maker). Flame away at me if you wish.

Your asking this on a Star Wars forum? Yeah, Completely neutral:rak_03:

Seriously. I have my own opinion, but I'm not going to interject it here. Just want to see what peeps have to say.

I don't like Star Trek. But for allot of the 'older" people, it was the first big intro to the world of Sci-Fi.It was a great intro into the world of Sci-Fi along with the 2001.

I'd go with Star Trek, even though I love SW allot more.

Lucas and Roddenberry were the top contributers from what I can see. Though Star Trek influenced the real world a lot more via most of the technoloy we use today. That cell phone you like, thank Star Trek for that.

Star Wars pretty much did nothing but inspire a laser defense system and some of the most obsessive people (in a bad way) I've seen.

I don't like Star Trek. But for allot of the 'older" people, it was the first big intro to the world of Sci-Fi.It was a great intro into the world of Sci-Fi along with the 2001.

 

I'd go with Star Trek, even though I love SW allot more.

Ummmm "older" lol....I don't know if I should explain how wrong that it.

Although he is less well known in this generation, Frank Herbert had a massive influence on Sci Fi.

Dune is so much more epic in scale than Star Trek and Star Wars universes.

But its a bit weird comparing film to books as well, a writer can tell so much more in words than film can ever hope to convey. Ignore the movie adaptations of Dune, they are abortions.

I think there were so many original ideas in Dune that have influenced Star Wars and other sci fi universes as well.

I.e. machines rising up and enslaving/killing humans, the whole notion of superhuman abilities like force users seems to be heavily influenced by the bene gesserit in Dune.

But its a bit weird comparing film to books as well, a writer can tell so much more in words than film can ever hope to convey. Ignore the movie adaptations of Dune, they are abortions.

In all honesty, if I'd never seen the movie of Dune I wouldn't have wanted to read the books as early as I did.

Nor would I love them as much as I do.

the whole notion of superhuman abilities like force users seems to be heavily influenced by the bene gesserit in Dune.

I honestly don't see this.

The Bene Gesserit don't (and practically nobody else in any of Herbert's Dune books) display supernatural abilities, whereas Jedi/Sith do - mind reading, telekinesis etc., except for prescience in the case of a Kwisatz Haderach or 3rd stage Guild Navigators, and two specific people with Atreides ancestry - Bashar Teg (superhuman speed and reaction for a short time and with extreme physical cost) and Sheeana (the worms descended from Leto II won't attack her, and respond to her). The Bene Gesserit are all about pushing the body to its limits and improving it, whilst meddling in politics and masterminding a long term plan of human advancement through selective breeding.

In the Dune IP, it's not until Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson get their hands on things that super powers really start to come into play - Telepaths, telekinesis, an immortal being of incredible power, super speed and strength.

The Force being used for powers is just good old magic.

Jedi/Sith are a combination of Samurai and magic warriors from fantasy stories.

Gene Roddenberry contributed the most to science fiction, if not for Star Trek, there wouldn't even be a Star Wars...

Star Trek was the first sci-fi series that departed from Rocketships and flying saucers. Furthermore a lot of the people that worked on the Star Wars movies (specifically the original trilogy) were Star Trek fans...

There is no doubt that Herbert's work influenced Lucas to a degree.

The books are pretty good reading (very hard to translate onto film, really needs to be a series or trilogy like LotR tbh).

Rodenberry also influenced alot of things, especially with the fact that so much of what he put into the show (phasers, tricorders, communicators, etc.) actually influenced real life technology.

But as far as the impact on sci-fi in general, I think when you mention it most people not "into" sci-fi immediately think of Star Wars.

George was the first to take the universe and make it look "used" and grungy.

Things broke down, (R5-D4, the Millenium Falcon, etc.) and weren't always reliable.

Not from a fanboy standpoint, mind you, as I am a fan of all three series, but I think that public perception would skew towards Lucas.

Ray Bradbury, Doc Smith, Philip K Dick, Heinlein, Harlen Ellison, Asimov, Clarke Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, any of them contributed more to Science Fiction to me than the "big three" mentioned in this thread.

Its from people like these that Lucas borrowed ideas from to weave the tapestry that is Star Wars. Lucas himself says Doc Smith was an influence on Star Wars. Ellison even wrote episodes of Star Trek (anyone remember "The City on the Edge of Forever"?) And if you liked Blade Runner, Total Recall or The Minority Report you can thank Philip K Dick. He wrote the books or stories all were based on (and many more as well,)

If you want to really experience the feast that is science fiction, don't just nibble on the fancy appetizers, go explore the vast menu of delicacies and delights from other chefs...

PS: For a more modern cuisine, look to folks like: David Weber, David Drake, Eric Flint and John Ringo, to name just a few.

Ray Bradbury, Doc Smith, Philip K Dick, Heinlein, Harlen Ellison, Asimov, Clarke Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, any of them contributed more to Science Fiction to me than the "big three" mentioned in this thread.

 

Its from people like these that Lucas borrowed ideas from to weave the tapestry that is Star Wars. Lucas himself says Doc Smith was an influence on Star Wars. Ellison even wrote episodes of Star Trek (anyone remember "The City on the Edge of Forever"?) And if you liked Blade Runner, Total Recall or The Minority Report you can thank Philip K Dick. He wrote the books or stories all were based on (and many more as well,)

 

If you want to really experience the feast that is science fiction, don't just nibble on the fancy appetizers, go explore the vast menu of delicacies and delights from other chefs...

 

PS: For a more modern cuisine, look to folks like: David Weber, David Drake, Eric Flint and John Ringo, to name just a few.

Op asked about the 3 he mentioned, get off your artsy, hipster, better-than-though high horse.

Op asked about the 3 he mentioned, get off your artsy, hipster, better-than-though high horse.

Sorry I didn't realize I couldn't suggest alternate authors that were much better in my opinion than his three. That made science fiction what it is today. That his three borrowed from to do their works. Or even HIRED in some cases.

But I stand corrected by the thread police for having an opinion not deemed worthy of someone who uses the word hipster. Moving along, Officer Unfriendly...

My question to everyone is "Who contributed more to the world of Sci-Fi?"

Frank Herbert with the Dune series?

George Lucas with Star Wars?

Gene Roddenberry with Star Trek?

 

Also, I'm curious as to why you think the author of your choice is the best. I'm going to remain completely neutral here. Have fun.

All three of them have made tremendous impacts on Sci-fi in general, at least Lucas and Roddenberry for sure. Calling them tremendous *authors* is almost overly generous though. For Lucas in particular despite creating Star Wars (*Respect*) is not a very great author of Star Wars. Several in the EU do much, much better.

Several problems with the prequels...

But again to biggest contribution... probably Roddenberry... even though I've never been a huge fan of Star Trek.

whereas vincit makes a valid point about there being plenty of overlooked sci-fi writers that are very good, i agree with OP that the big three he mentioned are what made sci-fi what is today.

star wars probably the best (imo) story and has by far the most likable characters, however you can't over look that fact that star wars was a very un-original idea. some things were stolen from star trek, but most was stolen from dune. not that this is a bad thing in anyway, shape, or form

herbert created a great, epic story with some truely brilliant original ideas. he married together religion and politics in a sci-fi masterpiece, its a shame it has never transferred well to the big screen. i could go on for hours listing all the stolen ideas lucas got from dune. i'll just say if you have read dune, you know what i'm talking about, if you haven't, then go and read it. (and don't let the awful films put you off)

then there is star trek and star wars. although i don't think star trek stole from dune all that much if at all. i do think they fed off of eachother, star wars took its stolen dune ideas and added stolen star trek ideas, making a sci-fi juggernaut, star trek watch star wars and realized how to present a sci-fi story to be compelling and dramatic. and for decades the two watched eachother and copied eachother.

so although dune is not as popular as star trek or star wars, there would be neither without it. but at the same time. star trek and star wars needed eachother as competition and inspiration to become as big as they are

back to vincit's list, they might be good but i don't see many blade runner conventions. and dune might be great and frank herbert is IMO the grand-daddy of sci-fi, his work has been far surpassed by both star wars and star trek.

depends on how you wiev things. Of the 3 series Dune is by far the least well known by the general public. everyone knows star trek and star wars. So when people in general talk about sci-fi they probably think of star ****

star wars are influenced by Dune you say, but then Dune is influenced by something else. Were all influenced by something. Lukas probably is the bigger "brand" but i still hesitate to call him great. Asimov f.x. was great. He was the one who came up with "the 3 laws of the robotics" and he was a bit of a genious too (member of mensas)

of the 3 i´d still pick Herbert. If you only go by the movie series i´d have Herbert in the bottom. way lower than lukas and Roddenberry

I fell asleep everytime i tried to watch Dune....so i figure trying to read it would put me into a coma. Dont know much about Herbet other than Dune.

 

I respect Roddenberry a great deal for his vision and contributions to the genre....still dont enjoy Trek, and trekkies....go suck a spock.

 

Dont care what the bandwagon internet hipster haters say, Lucas weaved together the universe that i love (with alot of help, but he is the maker). Flame away at me if you wish.

It is impossible to put Dune into movie... there is absolutely no way how that book could be condensed into one decent movie (and to put it bluntly even 12 hours would not be enough to catch the spell of it.

One really needs a book, or unabridged audiobook... I remember when I read it first time that I wondered wheather Thufir Hawat will realy ever kill Jesica Atreides. Loved Gurney Halec (even eternaly embodied in my mind by Patric Steward from the first (And really misserable) film incarnation of Dune) which I have seen first.

The newer Dune trilogy isn´t necesarily bad, but I do not know... I am pretty sure it was never stated in book... but Jasica should have "raven"(black) hair. (and well everyone agrees that red is not for her.)

Guys guys, lets put it that way, if there was no Dune by Frank Herbert we would have no Hutts and no Tatooine.

The first ones where inspired by God Emperor of Dune, Leto Atreides II, which was basically a worm. The second one, was inspired by planet Dune itself.

Remember your origins.

As for Dune itself, I really really enjoyed the Dune mini series from 2000. Very good quality, very interesting.

Remember the dialog between Alia and (now dead) Baron Harkonen:

"Noone will stand in the way of our powers, from this moment on, the future is ours"

I really liked all the concepts Herbert explored in Dune: things like knowing the future (prescience) and being able/unable to change it, or being able to see different scenarios of future, the problem of believers when their god dies. There are really so many things explored in Dune.. I should really get myself reading all 6 books. (there are more written by his son and Kevin J. Anderson - another popular star wars writer).

BTW: Luke I am your father, Dune style. Only that Leto had a better awareness about that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EnBsfKQM34&feature=related

Remember the dialog between Alia and (now dead) Baron Harkonen:

"Noone will stand in the way of our powers, from this moment on, the future is ours"

Touching since when Paul diapeared in deserts of Arrakis years later she used more and more spice to divine future and it awakened some genetic imprint of Baron´s conciosness in her.

Touching since when Paul diapeared in deserts of Arrakis years later she used more and more spice to divine future and it awakened some genetic imprint of Baron´s conciosness in her.

Well the Baron was basically her grandfather. So she being a preborn (child with consciousness right from the birth), she was risking that the identity of some of her relatives would take over. She really hated hearing all her older relatives trying to take over her consciousness, hearing their voices. That was the crucial moment when she succumbed to baron's mind.

I apologize for my poor english as it's not my first language.

Star Wars universe is too black/white for me : there is no "real" grey character, it's either a good or a bad one, no shade of grey inbetween.

As you can see in Star Trek or Dune some characters whose allegiance switch or become mad (or worse, hi Alia !), it makes the story much interesting to me.

Frank Herbert's universe (Dune, WorShip novels or even ConSentient novels) is amasingely huge for a single writer and it's always a pleasure to dive in.

Star Trek's licence has been developped in many ways : politics (DS9), discovery (Enterprise), survival ...

It's not that I don't like Star Wars, I really enjoy the books and so, but it's too manichean to be a complete universe to me, that's why I don't think Lucas is the one who contributed the more to the sci-fi : his stories are not "human" enough, it's Disney !

Well, check my nick for my answer for this

Sorry for my english btw...

All the possible things have been said about Dune here. Don't know what I can add to that but there are still few things left I guess.

First, I'd like you to read the list of resemblances here. You'll see how Lucas had some "ideas" from the Herbert, Dune. But just like another friend here said even Dune was inspired from another story. But question here is something different.

Sci-fi is not about laser guns, robots or spaceships. These three things I mentioned are about the "science" part of sci-fi. Finction part is totaly different and deeper. Dune has the upper hand when this is the issue.

Star Wars and Star Trek has a lot of aliens in them. Those days when people think of space and sci-fi it was common to dream about disfigured and ugly aliens. Even Lotr had the same issue. The more kind of aliens, the more interesting it gets. Both Star Wars and Star Trek had the some tendency.

Dune had something more reliable in the center of interest. Much more real and down-to-earth: "Human". In Dune, they were fighting the most dangerous enemy of human being, the greedy other humans, even themselves. There were more politic struggles instead of sci-fi alien attacks in the novel. Both Star Wars and Star Trek had nothing to do with death and beyond. For me, death is the most fictional reality to humans and Herbert also knew the significance of that issue and used that in his novel. "Knowing the future" and self sacrifice were both much more interesting for me then the fight between light and dark side.

Dune is interested in the fiction of human soul and mind. Ofcourse there are space bending Holtzman engines, feeling induced wierding modules, narcotics to let man see future etc. but these are all in the secondary layer of the novel.

Another problem about Dune was it was not a movie friendly novel. I bet no director can carry the human toughts and feelings to the movie as it should be. Let's say he did, even after that it is not going to be a fancy movie to watch bec. it is going to be dark, there will be not much action etc. Shortly, it won't be as commertial as they want. But Star Wars and Star Trek were commertial and more people know of them now. May be that's why mostly the patient readers know the Dune universe. I said "patient" bec. if you won't like the book at the first 100 pages, you don't want to read the rest. It is much more complicated and hard to read then the others mentioned here. But after getting deaper and deaper to the Dune universe other so called sci-fi stories become colorful candies and fun-time readings. Dune will not give you "fun" as you know it, instead will give you a lot to think about. Especially the God Emperor.

For the last, if Herbert is not the most influential of all, he is definately the most humanist sci-fi writer among the three.

Herbert's son is another story and his novels are something else. They are only giving the story an end, that's all.

 

Herbert's son is another story and his nowels are something else. They are only giving the story an end, that's all.

i never read his sons work, (always meant to, just not got round to it ) i thought his son wrote prequels, story's about house harkonnen, and house atreides, before they went to dune

i never read his sons work, (always meant to, just not got round to it ) i thought his son wrote prequels, story's about house harkonnen, and house atreides, before they went to dune