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[3.0+] The Marksmanship I Sharpshooter Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
[3.0+] The Marksmanship I Sharpshooter Guide

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
12.08.2014 , 12:28 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by DieGhostDie View Post
There is. Considering that Sniper Volley is a base 45 second CD, you need to get off your Snipes as quickly as possible. The extra 2 snipes ensures that you will have Sniper Volley off CD on your 3rd sequence (as stated previously, EP and OS were ideal to maintain this sort of fluidity pre 3.0). The added bonus from Honed Shots makes it all the more reason to spam more Snipes early.

I have plenty of ways to approach the sequence though, so sorry if I only listed 2. I'll add more ways to place those extra 2 snipes somewhere.

EDIT: I'm currently suffering through my last two weeks of finals, so I won't be able to answer all of the questions until then. I'll still be lurking around in the forums though!
Did you test it?? Cause, with the alacrity buff, I supposed the CD (assuming 0 alac from gear) would be 40.9s Which does change the number of filler you can have...
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

DieGhostDie's Avatar


DieGhostDie
12.08.2014 , 02:12 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryuku-sama View Post
Did you test it?? Cause, with the alacrity buff, I supposed the CD (assuming 0 alac from gear) would be 40.9s Which does change the number of filler you can have...
I did test this out, but unfortunately, it doesn't make a positive impact in terms of rotational fluidity and DPS. It's really nonsensical to use Target Acquired within the Sniper Volley window just to shave 10 seconds off of its CD when you can be potentially dealing more damage with double Penetrating Blasts. Just because Alacrity is redesigned to reduce cooldowns in terms of abilities and CDs doesn't mean the priority of offensive CDs should change. Also, hitting Target Acquired within the Sniper Volley window would mean gaining too much energy back, and trust me, I have much better use for TA whenever appropriate.

I admit, it was an interesting discovery but unfortunately, it won't work for the sake of DPS gain nor resolve any filler problems.
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MFollin's Avatar


MFollin
12.08.2014 , 03:16 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Kuciwalker View Post
I mean Aim where you would normally have Cunning. Like, grab Aim implants or barrels or whatnot, with otherwise identical stats to what you would normally get.
Hmm, I could at least see some idea in using Aim stim when playing SS/MM, just for that bit extra crit.

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.08.2014 , 08:50 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MFollin View Post
But isn't Pulse a 1 GCD move, and GCD being 1.5 seconds, the same as the activation time on Snipe?
No cover pulse ignores the GCD and does not proc it either.

Quote: Originally Posted by DieGhostDie View Post
That's wrong. Instant GCD Snipes don't really make a difference since Snipe is on 1.5 second cast anyway. As I said, it is not a DPS increase. It's an APM gain. I understand that you think I am undervaluing the utility Stroke of Genius, but realistically, I'm really not. Stroke of Genius serves to add ability clutter by being reliant on Cover Pulse. I will absolutely never use this ability nor will I complicate my flow of rotations. Snap Shot is honestly a better alternative here, and I rather use Cover Pulse for something else. Having both would be an instant death sentence.
First APM is the most important thing on a MM, where unlike dot specs where most of your damage is automatic, MM APM is directly proportional to total damage.

Second I have no idea what you mean by instant GCD snipes.

But I'll explain in more detail how I use Stroke of genius so we are on the same page. I use it for when you do 2 snipes in a row to proc both FT and 1.5 second ambush. I run the first snipe normally full 1.5 second cast then hit cover pulse and second snipe, you MUST rely on abilities que to do this or you don't bypass the GCD of the first snipe. IMO you prolly save closer to 2 seconds as your shaving time off the GCD too.

Now I do use snap shot too but not in conjugation with stroke of genius normally. The reason for this is simple, if I'm entering cover then FT is probably off CD so no extra snipe is necessary to clear the FT CD. This however does modify the opener rotation a bit and I find gives me more opening burst, to many a PT tank's horror.

Now this is for PvE specifically, so you claim to be able to use CP for something better but I suspect the examples are few and far between. As I've mentioned there is always going to be opportunities to Respec utilities when nessesary to best fir a fight and it doesn't take too long to spend the 7 points on a utility tree that doesn't change regardless of discipline. This use of Stoke of genius is is usable each and every complete(sniper volley CD) rotation you do in the game, making it EXTREMELY useful. Every other utility is if this or if that, There is no "if" with stroke of genius other then "if I'm in combat" it's right there in every rotation and it doesn't compromise your rotation either as the GCD on corrosive dart keeps the rotation on pace.

Clearly you as I suspect a lot of people also do see stroke of genius and make the assumption that they are using it on their first snipe but as I say it's for your second snipe, and it's extremely fun thing to do, try it before you reply.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.08.2014 , 09:01 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryuku-sama View Post
A few points..
For Takedown... Replacing Snipe > Snipe > FT by Snipe > TD > FT Is a DPS increase. You lose a single Snipe in a full SV rotation and replace three with TD... Three TD do more damage than four Snipe.
Doing an extra Snipe every Ambush CD is a waste of GCD.... Every SV window you have 5 fillers avaible. Two are for Corrosive Darts. One is for Snipe (or Trauma debuff if needed for the raid). The last ones are for energy regen....
Every three SV window, Adre Probe will be back up. For this one ignore all your energy management and use Snipe instead of managing your energy.
OK about this: Snipe > TD > FT

This makes Zero sense to me, no sense what-so-ever, nothing at all. That said I will certainly read your reply with an open mind.

so Snipe does 3 things in MM
- procs Follow Through but doesn't reset the CD
- Shortens Ambush cast time by 0.5s/snipe up to 1s
- 2 Snipes reset FT CD and proc FT

so what does Snipe > TD > FT achieve? specifically what does the Snipe in there actually do?

MY use of Take down goes like this, when Take Down is available you use it immediately after the next Follow Through then proceed with your rotation as normal.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
12.09.2014 , 09:45 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
OK about this: Snipe > TD > FT

This makes Zero sense to me, no sense what-so-ever, nothing at all. That said I will certainly read your reply with an open mind.

so Snipe does 3 things in MM
- procs Follow Through but doesn't reset the CD
- Shortens Ambush cast time by 0.25s/snipe up to 0.5s
- 2 Snipes reset FT CD and proc FT

so what does Snipe > TD > FT achieve? specifically what does the Snipe in there actually do?

MY use of Take down goes like this, when Take Down is available you use it immediately after the next Follow Through then proceed with your rotation as normal.
The Snipe does nothing.. It just fills the hole while TD doesall the work... Snipe is just a filler here.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
12.09.2014 , 09:51 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DieGhostDie View Post
I did test this out, but unfortunately, it doesn't make a positive impact in terms of rotational fluidity and DPS. It's really nonsensical to use Target Acquired within the Sniper Volley window just to shave 10 seconds off of its CD when you can be potentially dealing more damage with double Penetrating Blasts. Just because Alacrity is redesigned to reduce cooldowns in terms of abilities and CDs doesn't mean the priority of offensive CDs should change. Also, hitting Target Acquired within the Sniper Volley window would mean gaining too much energy back, and trust me, I have much better use for TA whenever appropriate.

I admit, it was an interesting discovery but unfortunately, it won't work for the sake of DPS gain nor resolve any filler problems.
Well.. I stand corrected about TA..... Now onto the numbers avaible for SV...

This is the rotation I figured out.....
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

DieGhostDie's Avatar


DieGhostDie
12.09.2014 , 11:27 AM | #28
I'm happy to announce that a kind soul named Waratte from Reddit has taken the time to translate the Marksmanship guide to Sharpshooter already! I will have the translated Republic guide ready to go either tonight or tomorrow! Be sure to give him lots of "sweg"!
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mr_sim's Avatar


mr_sim
12.09.2014 , 12:24 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Ryuku-sama View Post
The Snipe does nothing.. It just fills the hole while TD doesall the work... Snipe is just a filler here.
Ok I'm getting closer to understanding what your doing. Unfortunately as I understand it your doing things wrong. It would seem your filler snipe there is a waste of 3 seconds, There is no reason I've been able to determine to lead TD with a snipe.

In fact in my experience you never really need a filler in MM. As described in my pervious post you can insert TD anywhere in your rotation by simply following your next follow through. This makes TD a rotation expander meaning more abilities get time to cool down.
Striker Pilot - Jedi Covenant - Imperial Forces

<Roving Guns>

Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
12.09.2014 , 12:49 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by mr_sim View Post
Ok I'm getting closer to understanding what your doing. Unfortunately as I understand it your doing things wrong. It would seem your filler snipe there is a waste of 3 seconds, There is no reason I've been able to determine to lead TD with a snipe.

In fact in my experience you never really need a filler in MM. As described in my pervious post you can insert TD anywhere in your rotation by simply following your next follow through. This makes TD a rotation expander meaning more abilities get time to cool down.
Which lower your DPS and your burst.. MM has five GCD fillers by Sniper Volley CD. Two being Corrosive Dart. TD > FT forces three more GCD between your Sniper Volley's. Replacing the Sn > Sn > FT by TD >FT buy you one 0.66 GCD (Ambush taking 1.33 GCD to cast without Zeroing Shot). GOing with Sn > TD > FT forces you to lose exactly one filler.. Which makes the rotation sustainable.. Keeps everything as close to their CD as possible....

Note that this is assuming Sniper Volley CD is affected by its own buff making it a 40.9 CD.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015