Compare it to music.

 

Not many people can listen to 2 hours of Bizet or Debussy. They are staggering masterpieces though. With unbelievable complexity, I can not even imagine what goes in the mind of someone like Debussy when he is composing, it is just so utterly beyond me...

 

But more than 1 billion people can repeatedly enjoy Gangnam Style, a far less complex piece, but not bad either.

 

 

 

There are plenty of indie games that are fantastic and have no obligations to communicate with the masses. And even some non-indie ones like Dark Souls, a shining beacon in the mainstream gaming media.

Dark Souls is an amazing piece of gaming history.

I've read pretty much this entire thread, and yes there is a lot of "HAND ME THIS" sounding posts. And the point I had here, as obviously you don't have the mentality to deduce from my statement, is a casual player can play the game and not worry about repair costs since the casual content won't ever burden them because of repairs. Now raids aren't casual content so for someone who complains he is a casual player doing raids, but does nothing for the upkeep of doing said raids doesn't have a reason to complain. And no it reveals me as someone who solves the issue. Repair costs went up, I put forth more effort to make more money. Issue solved. Your complaining reveals you as a useless customer who can not be satisfied. No company sees unsatisfiable customers as an asset and will never listen to them, and will welcome them the option to just leave without any regret on their end.

Yes, because we all know the old adage: "The customer is always useless."

Of course it is obvious that it will be quite easy for EA to satisfy the customer. Do a patch tomorrow that reverts the repair system to the way it was. A repair system that nobody here ever complained about, you included.

Btw, everything you've said in this post is incorrect, I mean to the point of being gibberish. Here is a suggestion. Borrow the car from your mom this weekend, go to the library and check out a book on customer satisfaction in corporate organizations and then compare to your analysis above. Have a safe trip.

Dark Souls is an amazing piece of gaming history.

Some fourty years from now, I'll have my grandchildren play it

That's why I'm not playing WoW. So yes WoW's not the game for me. I played in Cata. and stomped through the end game content relatively easy but had it's hard moments. And I liked it a lot. I played Mists and it just bored me. There needs to be a median where you go to make the game hard for the sake of challenge, but not make a soft comfy bed to lay on and pet fluffy cats and eat chocolates.

It's sad that the majority of gamers just want ease, because that's not what it's all about. (Well I guess it is for them... ionno.)

There's nothing, no, zero, zilch, nada challenge whatsoever in grinding daylies. I don't even disagree that there needs to be challenge for those that want it, but in what way is increasing rep costs to an unhealthy degree increasing challenge? It isn't. That's why I have issues with your argument. It isn't making any sense.

This ^

Dark Souls is challenging. Getting the jumps right in EV is challenging (for a jump impaired man like me, that is).

The old Korean way of grinding is not challenging, it is just hard work for the sake of hard work.

Yes, because we all know the old adage: "The customer is always useless."

 

Of course it is obvious that it will be quite easy for EA to satisfy the customer. Do a patch tomorrow that reverts the repair system to the way it was. A repair system that nobody here ever complained about, you included.

 

Btw, everything you've said in this post is incorrect, I mean to the point of being gibberish. Here is a suggestion. Borrow the car from your mom this weekend, go to the library and check out a book on customer satisfaction in corporate organizations and then compare to your analysis above. Have a safe trip.

And they won't put the repair costs that low because it was wrong to begin with. And your inept ability to summrize my life in any of the above garbage you just said made you worthless to this thread.

And what I say is true. I work in "trying" to please customers and guess what when they hit the 8th call back in a day because they are constantly unsatisfied, all they get is the run around from there on after. So you can think what you want and you can think EA is just grovelling after you guys, but they make money elsewhere, so does BW, so no they probably don't care much if they are losing the complainers from the game.

This ^

 

Dark Souls is challenging. Getting the jumps right in EV is challenging (for a jump impaired man like me, that is).

 

The old Korean way of grinding is not challenging, it is just hard work for the sake of hard work.

My comment even stated that "this doesn't have to do with the repair costs issue" so that should encompass dailies.

And they won't put the repair costs that low because it was wrong to begin with. And your inept ability to summrize my life in any of the above garbage you just said made you worthless to this thread.

And what I say is true. I work in "trying" to please customers and guess what when they hit the 8th call back in a day because they are constantly unsatisfied, all they get is the run around from there on after. So you can think what you want and you can think EA is just grovelling after you guys, but they make money elsewhere, so does BW, so no they probably don't care much if they are losing the complainers from the game.

Seeing that you work in "trying to please" customers, you don't seem like someone who's proficient in customer service/satisfaction in the first place. Retaining customers and gaining new ones is the major thing companies look out for, especially if they're not the only ones on the market. If you're losing existing customers, something is wrong with your model in the first place. People who leave will be happy to share with friends and people in their social cycle why they left and what they think of your business. New customers will be less likely to be attracted, for the bad reputation you've gained.

So losing customers for ANY company is never an option. I work in customer relations as well, in fact I train CSRs as a living. The first thing we tell our people is that satisfying the customer is the most important thing. Everything else is second to that. Our customers call themselves 'fans'. We attain 95 - 99% customer satisfaction regularly. I think we're doing it right.

Seeing that you work in "trying to please" customers, you don't seem like someone who's proficient in customer service/satisfaction in the first place. Retaining customers and gaining new ones is the major thing companies look out for, especially if they're not the only ones on the market. If you're losing existing customers, something is wrong with your model in the first place. People who leave will be happy to share with friends and people in their social cycle why they left and what they think of your business. New customers will be less likely to be attracted, for the bad reputation you've gained.

 

So losing customers for ANY company is never an option. I work in customer relations as well, in fact I train CSRs as a living. The first thing we tell our people is that satisfying the customer is the most important thing. Everything else is second to that. Our customers call themselves 'fans'. We attain 95 - 99% customer satisfaction regularly. I think we're doing it right.

No it is never the way they want it to happen. But if a company sees a consistant issue where customers can not be satisfied with the product they produced, no matter what kind of fixes they try( BW doesn't seem to fix things they just break more stuff) but as the higher ups are looking at it they are supposedly putting forth "fixes." They will write off the product because it has become a liability not an asset and that is a fact. This isn't SWG where SOE needed it for income. BW and EA both gain a lot of revenue in other sources, therefore if SWTOR becomes a big enough sore lump in their pockets they won't hesitate to just let it die.

No it is never the way they want it to happen. But if a company sees a consistant issue where customers can not be satisfied with the product they produced, no matter what kind of fixes they try( BW doesn't seem to fix things they just break more stuff) but as the higher ups are looking at it they are supposedly putting forth "fixes." They will write off the product because it has become a liability not an asset and that is a fact. This isn't SWG where SOE needed it for income. BW and EA both gain a lot of revenue in other sources, therefore if SWTOR becomes a big enough sore lump in their pockets they won't hesitate to just let it die.

Yes, but since people seem to take issue with a particular fix that could be reverted, making said people happy, where's the problem in simply reverting it? No big costly marketing operation needed. No headache over losing customers. Simple. Everyone, well, except you, would be happy and I have yet to understand why you're against it, because with all that taken into consideration, BW would be silly not to revert it.

Yes, but since people seem to take issue with a particular fix that could be reverted, making said people happy, where's the problem in simply reverting it? No big costly marketing operation needed. No headache over losing customers. Simple. Everyone, well, except you, would be happy and I have yet to understand why you're against it, because with all that taken into consideration, BW would be silly not to revert it.

I've said many times through out thread that it should be changed and offered differing fixes they could attempt etc. In my honest opnion it hasn't affected me at all since I love making money in MMO's. It's something I strive to do and am mostly effective at it so if it stays I'll still play. And any person who is a real fan of the game will too. My issue is how people go about bringing their issues. Ok post something on the forum about it, but don't threaten the company. What really annoys me is that I see so many threads about an issue, BW fixes it, and then there's 1,000 threads about how the fix is bs and they are unsubbing. Like the general chat fix. So many people wanted some type of feature that would regulate general chat, so they came up with one. One that is in a lot of MMO's might I add and all of a sudden I see 100 posts of fiery rage. It gets annoying. Especially since I really enjoy the game and all people are doing is complaining just to complain.

I've said many times through out thread that it should be changed and offered differing fixes they could attempt etc. In my honest opnion it hasn't affected me at all since I love making money in MMO's. It's something I strive to do and am mostly effective at it so if it stays I'll still play. And any person who is a real fan of the game will too. My issue is how people go about bringing their issues. Ok post something on the forum about it, but don't threaten the company. What really annoys me is that I see so many threads about an issue, BW fixes it, and then there's 1,000 threads about how the fix is bs and they are unsubbing. Like the general chat fix. So many people wanted some type of feature that would regulate general chat, so they came up with one. One that is in a lot of MMO's might I add and all of a sudden I see 100 posts of fiery rage. It gets annoying. Especially since I really enjoy the game and all people are doing is complaining just to complain.

I may be getting annoyed with people claiming there's not enough PvP in this game, because I don't give a freak about PvP, yet I have to accept that their concern is valid and as long as it's not just one group of people that's catered to, I'm okay with other people being satisfied, even if it's an issue I don't have any stakes in.

This particular thing here is a very good example. The majority of people, judging by the number of posters and the way they voiced their disappointment, are against this fix staying as it is. Hence it would be self-evident for BW to do something about it.

I'm not even saying repair costs need to go back to where they were necessarily, but if it was the option that most people were happy with, I'd say BW should go for it and have a major nuisance off their back immediately.

So you seem be having an issue less with this particular thread/problem, but more with complaining gamers in general. Well, gamers are an incoherent mass of people who may agree on one thing and may complain about it and disagree on other things, so they let other people do the complaining. That's life. You'll always have complaints, since people are prioritizing their concerns and there'll never be "perfect games" out there that people won't ever complain about.

 

I may be getting annoyed with people claiming there's not enough PvP in this game, because I don't give a freak about PvP, yet I have to accept that their concern is valid and as long as it's not just one group of people that's catered to, I'm okay with other people being satisfied, even if it's an issue I don't have any stakes in.

 

This particular thing here is a very good example. The majority of people, judging by the number of posters and the way they voiced their disappointment, are against this fix staying as it is. Hence it would be self-evident for BW to do something about it.

 

I'm not even saying repair costs need to go back to where they were necessarily, but if it was the option that most people were happy with, I'd say BW should go for it and have a major nuisance off their back immediately.

It would be cool if they put in a decrease repair option into legacy where every ten levels of legacy get you a % off bills. It makes sense too. I mean your legacy is your grandeur within the universe. The more you excell the more the "people of the universe" know your accomplishments so they offer you lower repair costs. So lore wise it makes sense as well as it gives people a reason to get higher teir legacy levels.

Seeing that you work in "trying to please" customers, you don't seem like someone who's proficient in customer service/satisfaction in the first place. Retaining customers and gaining new ones is the major thing companies look out for, especially if they're not the only ones on the market. If you're losing existing customers, something is wrong with your model in the first place. People who leave will be happy to share with friends and people in their social cycle why they left and what they think of your business. New customers will be less likely to be attracted, for the bad reputation you've gained.

 

So losing customers for ANY company is never an option. I work in customer relations as well, in fact I train CSRs as a living. The first thing we tell our people is that satisfying the customer is the most important thing. Everything else is second to that. Our customers call themselves 'fans'. We attain 95 - 99% customer satisfaction regularly. I think we're doing it right.

If losing customers is, as you say, "NEVER an option", why do you only have a 95-99% customer satisfaction? That's 1-5% percent of your customer base that you are not satisfying.

I do not know the actual numbers, only EA/BW does, but let's hypothesize:

25,000 sounds like a lot of subscribers to lose. For giggles and grins, though, let's figure that EA has 500,000 subscribers. This repair cost bug causes 500-25000 of those 500,000 to unsubscribe. That would be 1-5%, meaning that 95-99% percent of the subscribers chose to continue subscribing. That would be the same percentage of customer satisfaction that you achieve.

In general, it is good to retain customers. Sometimes, though, it isn't possible to satisfy everyone and keep every customer without "giving too much away". Is this one of those situations for EA/BW? Only EA/BW can answer that question.

It would be cool if they put in a decrease repair option into legacy where every ten levels of legacy get you a % off bills. It makes sense too. I mean your legacy is your grandeur within the universe. The more you excell the more the "people of the universe" know your accomplishments so they offer you lower repair costs. So lore wise it makes sense as well as it gives people a reason to get higher teir legacy levels.

I would fully support this idea .

No "hand it to me"-solution, because you have to work to get the discount.

Definitely with an in-game-logic.

And an tangible reward for the "work" you do anyway when just enjoying the game.

Layna

If losing customers is, as you say, "NEVER an option", why do you only have a 95-99% customer satisfaction? That's 1-5% percent of your customer base that you are not satisfying.

 

I do not know the actual numbers, only EA/BW does, but let's hypothesize:

 

25,000 sounds like a lot of subscribers to lose. For giggles and grins, though, let's figure that EA has 500,000 subscribers. This repair cost bug causes 500-25000 of those 500,000 to unsubscribe. That would be 1-5%, meaning that 95-99% percent of the subscribers chose to continue subscribing. That would be the same percentage of customer satisfaction that you achieve.

 

 

In general, it is good to retain customers. Sometimes, though, it isn't possible to satisfy everyone and keep every customer without "giving too much away". Is this one of those situations for EA/BW? Only EA/BW can answer that question.

The last # they through out for subscribers was 700k-1 million rising and falling consistantly between those #'s. Out of all the MMO's that's the second biggest subscriber base between the MMO's out there. WoW of course in the lead.

If losing customers is, as you say, "NEVER an option", why do you only have a 95-99% customer satisfaction?

In general, it is good to retain customers. Sometimes, though, it isn't possible to satisfy everyone and keep every customer without "giving too much away". Is this one of those situations for EA/BW? Only EA/BW can answer that question.

After a week, Bioware has still not apologized giving blatantly false information in the patch notes, so there is little hope that they will actually fix the repair costs. What we may think of Bioware for lying to their customers is a topic for a different thread.

So, rather than perpetuating the complaints, I offer a real solution to anyone who wants to save repair costs:

Level 50:

Re-mod all your gear to PVP shells (armor and weapons)

Pre-level 50:

Re-mod all your gear to the cheapest (sales price of the item) orange shells that you can find.

DO NOT use Cartel gear, DO NOT use Tionese or higher, and especially DO NOT use legacy gear!

I remodded Dread gloves, boots and a Campaign off-hand last night. Those were the only expensive pieces I had, everything else was already cheap orange or PVP shells. My costs per wipe went from 17K to 6.9K (down 60%)

Here is the link to the test that I've done a few days ago, it will explain why this is the best way to go:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=598636

Enjoy!

Nice work !!!

Now I'm curious to see what Bioware will do... they can still take the option to repair all the PVP and orange gear so they'll be at the same level as Tionese, Rakata, black holes etc. repair cost

And they won't put the repair costs that low because it was wrong to begin with.

Apparently it was left "wrong" for nearly a year after prices had been intentionally lowered by 1.2 (another mistake?). Why? Because nobody had any serious issues with it. In addition to which there are numerous reports (I also have personally experienced this) that higher lvl armor shells incur significantly more repair cost. But wait, here's the supposed fix from EA's own patch notes:

So why is it that I can rip out the mods from a low level orange shell, place them in legacy equipment and incur nearly three times the repair cost for damage? That makes absolutely no sense, yet I fully expect you to try to defend it anyway.

And your inept ability to summrize my life in any of the above garbage you just said made you worthless to this thread.

Then stop acting like a fool. Your analysis of how customer relations is supposed to work in theory or in practice is uninformed nonsense, and you deserve to be shamed and berated for it.

And what I say is true. I work in "trying" to please customers and guess what when they hit the 8th call back in a day because they are constantly unsatisfied, all they get is the run around from there on after. So you can think what you want and you can think EA is just grovelling after you guys, but they make money elsewhere, so does BW, so no they probably don't care much if they are losing the complainers from the game.

I suppose those of us who own multiple service-based businesses and consult for companies that have market capitalization dwarfing EA's wouldn't know as well as you do. Although your position does make sense if your experience is to give customers the run around rather than solving their issue. Especially when it is so easy to do and won't affect your gaming experience one whit, but would greatly improve the experience for many others. It puzzles me how you gain satisfaction by whining and complaining about the legitimate concerns of other customers.

Bioware Team-

Please PUT IT BACK!

Stop screwing around with that Personal Ship Transport and FIX this first! You guys looked REALLY BAD this week after a great Event kickoff. Gree 1.7 is cool, but your GTN Screw up and Repair Bills Screw up cost you big time PR Points and effectively ticked off more people at the end of the day. To add insult to injury you had 2 unscheduled Maintenance windows - BOTH of which did nothing but fix or try to fix that Personal Ship Transport and some exploit item. (Lots of QQ about unsubs, no PUG's and less Raiding)

Oh yea.. why can't I purchase anything with Helix's until the 2nd or 3rd Event? That was KINDA silly as well. Walking away from the 2 week event with nothing but a crap ton of REP points to open and Helix's I can't spend.. SMART MOVE... /sarcasm

only people really defending it are those that A: play a ton, or B: are simply derailing the topic by arguing the point of it being "as intended".

Even a lot of people who play a ton don't like this change. It's affecting a wide range of players.

94 Pages of Repair complaining.... This must means something Bioware >.<

I never thought I post anything on the forums but kinda was forced to do so. So my first post is to complain on the repair cost, casual and low level players can barely afford these. I died like 3-4 times and the repair cost are over 4500 gosh.... Im just on Taris Planet with gear level around 21 and it really drain all the money I get from quest and such.