I've been working for over a month now to get my raid DPS boosted to the level that I've seen other Snipers at - that being the 1500-1800ish range for boss encounters. I'm usually around 1100-1300.

 

Understand that I'm a veteran MMO player and take a lot of pride in pushing my characters to the limits and am willing to dive into the weeds on the stats math, but I'm genuinely stumped on this one.

 

I'm in full campaign gear with all of the correct Enhancement/Mods etc in my items to maximize Sniper stats.

 

Regarding the skill tree, I'm running 31M, 7E, 3L. Casting order may be part of the issue here but I doubt it's the core problem. Looking for some ideas here.

 

There's a lot of debate on the forums about where a Sniper's stats should be.

 

Let me start by asking which Augment (22) you guys are using on gear? Overkill for Power or Skill for Cunning and why?

 

Any other ideas?

Get the purple skill augs. 12end 18 cunning. You gain more in terms of damage and crit due to the 9% cunning increase from the engineering tree.

I have all of those already - on everything. I'm trying to figure out if it's better to have the Overkill ones for power or what else I'm doing wrong.

Mainstat augments are definitely better than Power. Anyone who suggest otherwise is mathematically challenged.

 

Besides that, however: regardless of whether you stack all Cunning or all Power the difference is only going to be around 20dps; it's certainly not going to catapult you hundreds of DPS up. If your gearing isn't fundamentally flawed, and your internet connection is at least above the level of, say, Zimbabwe, then ability priorities/rotations are most likely the core issue.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Aurojiin

power or cunning augs doesn' t really matter. Cunnings are a bit better, but the difference is tiny in the grand scheme of things..

 

Also remember, DPS can vary wildly depend on the specific bosses used for parsing.

I have a theory about this and it may not be a popular one...

 

Snipers have a few AOE abilities, though they're not really sustainable depending on the encounter. However, for boss fights that have several mini-waves of adds, dropping those AOEs in all of those instances results in a significant boost on a parser. I know because I've done some encounters and boosted by overall DPS by several hundred.

 

So, for the people who only look at Snipers and will only recruit them for example if they often top the parsers, that's one way to appease them.

 

But, I'd argue that there's a difference between high parser DPS and good DPS. There are certain fights that the overall encounter is dependent on burning the boss down as fast as possible, rather than killing the adds that a Merc for example could easily handle.

 

This will hurt my overall DPS but it's also me doing what's best for the raid overall.

 

I have mixed feelings about this because it's annoying when an elite guild won't accept people who don't cross a certain threshold on the parser without considering what really best for the raid.

 

Others experienced this or do you genuinely hit 1600-1800+ on parser without AOEs?

Edited October 18, 2012 by --Ramzes--

I run hm ops with several other smuggler sharpshooter spec. Using monitor to check our dps, on a single boss fight, we all get in the range of 1100-1300. Only with adds and using aoe do we get into the higher dps, sometimes topping 2k. I think you are probably pretty much right on with your dps and u just need to compare apples and oranges. Look at another sniper with your group attacking just a single boss (zorn is a good example) and see how much dps he does. I bet u both do about the same. (Btw, using group monitor prevents blowhards from claiming unrealistic dps. I don't believe the high dps numbers unless i see it!) Edited October 19, 2012 by Baronstefan

I've been working for over a month now to get my raid DPS boosted to the level that I've seen other Snipers at - that being the 1500-1800ish range for boss encounters. I'm usually around 1100-1300.

 

Let me start by asking which Augment (22) you guys are using on gear? Overkill for Power or Skill for Cunning and why?

 

Any other ideas?

 

Depends on what boss you're talking about. Talking EC HM, I do 1400 to high 1500s as marksman. When you have the gear, it's mostly about knowing the fights and being more or less optimized stat wise. DPS also depends on the rest of your group and tactics. A month doesn't sound like a long time to me

 

If I can sit and shoot in peace without moving, I can pull 1800+.. but that's not happening in a real fight unless there are damage buffs in the fight mechanics, like Fabricator in KP or Kephess in TfB.

 

Skill Augments, all the way. No question about it. You get about the same bonus damage from Cunning point per point, but also some crit rating.

 

Other ideas.. try to squeeze out more Followthroughs on cool down. SoS and FT are often over 45%+ of my total damage during a fight.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Svii

If this doesn't answer your question, then there's no help for you my friend:

 

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/9rzDECd/gearhead

Even with diminishing returns, cunning is better...

Even with diminishing returns, cunning is better...

 

It really depends on the rest of your gear. You CAN squeeze more bonus damage out of power, but if you stack Cunning that's less crit you need in the rest of your gear, which leaves more room to cap accuracy, etc.

 

The trick is knowing where your numbers need to be and balancing them.

If you simply swap power/cunning without fully optimizing the suit as a whole you won't notice a difference.

Edited October 25, 2012 by ViciousFett

It really depends on the rest of your gear. You CAN squeeze more bonus damage out of power, but if you stack Cunning that's less crit and surge you need in the rest of your gear, which leaves more room to cap accuracy, etc.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

 

The amount of crit gained from Cunning has NO effect on the value of critical rating.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

 

The amount of crit gained from Cunning has NO effect on the value of critical rating.

 

Are you kidding me?! Hover over Cunning on your character sheet...

It gives both Ranged and Tech crit chance.

 

If you're still confused:

Crit chance = Crit rating

Crit Multiplier = Surge

Edited October 25, 2012 by ViciousFett

Are you kidding me?! Hover over Cunning on your character sheet...

It gives both Ranged and Tech crit chance.

 

If you're still confused:

Crit chance = Crit rating

Crit Multiplier = Surge

 

No he is right, it has no affect on crit rating, which is the number in the (). It has an effect on crit chance sure, but it is not affecedt by the DR of crit rating. I think that was his point.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Jackalcrimson

Are you kidding me?! Hover over Cunning on your character sheet...

It gives both Ranged and Tech crit chance.

 

If you're still confused:

Crit chance = Crit rating

Crit Multiplier = Surge

 

Try to hover over Crit Chance instead, it shows that Cunning and Critical rating are on separate DR curves

Regarding the original question. USE SKILL AUGS. I HAVE TESTED THIS.

The SKILL AUGS give a slight dps (less than 20 dps ) advantage at optimal end game stats . It also add's a minimal crit chance (< 1%) advantage over OVERKILL augs

 

TESTING PROCEDURES

Fully modified end game BH gear

equip 14 Skill AUGS. RUN test, Then equip 14 overkill augs and run test.

TEST consists of---6 minute DPS on OP dummy on my ship with MARKSMAN SPEC. Repeat 20 times.(then repeat with Full Lethality build)

To ensure there were no user errors during DPS, I created a macro on my Nostromo that ran thru 8- 45 second rotations. Only user input during rotation was to start the fight then click ground for orbital strike positioning

The lethality rotation time was different but also ran for 6 minutes and included Orbital Strike.

Run MOX parser

Record :

PEAK DPS during each fight,

Total Damage during each fight

DPS of each fight.

MY Marksman MACRO was doing 1466 dps average with SKILL - 1451 DPS average with Overkill.

MY Lethality MACRO was doing 1489 dps average with SKILL - 1472 DPS average with Overkill

 

I use these macro's now to test all potential gear changes. Very handy, even thou the DPS isn't optimal, it's repeatable.

Ok, I've seen the separate DR on cunning's contribution to crit chance referenced all over the Internet, but have yet to see it graphed or really analyzed. My question is, at what point does it stop being beneficial to add cunning over power due to small marginal returns? I am full campaign transitioning to dread guard, and my cunning is already through the roof raid-buffed (not logged in now, but I think like 2350 or so). I'm starting to switch out some skill augments for overkill ones because my crit is where I want it to be and there is just no way that additional cunning is really impacting crit chance much at this point in the DR curve.

 

So, I ask again: has anyone graphed this curve and determined the point where cunning's contribution to crit percentage is negligible?

Ok, I've seen the separate DR on cunning's contribution to crit chance referenced all over the Internet, but have yet to see it graphed or really analyzed. My question is, at what point does it stop being beneficial to add cunning over power due to small marginal returns? I am full campaign transitioning to dread guard, and my cunning is already through the roof raid-buffed (not logged in now, but I think like 2350 or so). I'm starting to switch out some skill augments for overkill ones because my crit is where I want it to be and there is just no way that additional cunning is really impacting crit chance much at this point in the DR curve.

 

So, I ask again: has anyone graphed this curve and determined the point where cunning's contribution to crit percentage is negligible?

 

Not sure where the source was, but I believe I read the number is somewhere over 9000

 

Seriously

 

Edit: found where I read it, it is not cited but still

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=505044&page=2

Post #14

Edited October 27, 2012 by CJNJ

IIRC, power increases damage by .23 per point while cunning increase damage by .2 per point.

 

for one overkill augment (with 18 power), you get 4.14 points of damage

for one cunning augment WITHOUT gearbox, (18 cunning), you get 3.6 points of damage

for one cunning augment WITH gearbox (18 cunning x 1.09 increase from gearbox= 19.62 cunning) which gives you 3.924 points of damage.

 

if you use only overkill augments, you get 14 x 18= 252 power which gets you 57.96 points of damage.

if you use only cunning augments, you get 14 x (18 x 1.09=19.62)= 274.68, which gets you 54.936 points of damage

 

No guarantees on the math though. I may not understand the values or the mechanics correctly.

 

However, cunning does increase your crit chance, which can factor in. The fewer points you have to spend on crit, the more you can put into power or cunning.

Edited November 1, 2012 by jboone

Regarding Overkill vs Skill Augments, I would like to say that what makes Cunning better is the 9% Talent Bonus. I believe for ACs with 6% or no Talent Bonus, Power is better. The crit chance you get from cunning is not subject to DR, that only applies for crit raiting.

 

Regarding gear, I have made a few tests and came up with this setup that I think is best in slot, I do know that everyone cannot get all the 27 yet and just get the 26 of the same piece and you should be fine, the difference isn't that large. Also note that you need to have the crafted Advanced Skill Armoring 27 in two of your setbonus items as you need to have two pieces of battlemaster to be able to have the two best setbonuses (2 set from PvE and 2 set from PvP).

 

1x Advanced Eviscerating Crystal <-- Color isn't important

1x Advanced Hawkeye Crystal <-- Color isn't important

2x Advanced Skill Barrel 27

7x Advanced Skill Armoring 27

4x Advanced Keen Mod 27

5x Advanced Artful Mod 27

3x Advanced Adept Enhancement 27

3x Advanced Acute Enhancement 27

1x Advanced Initiative Enhancement 27

14x Advanced Skill Augment 22

2x Hazmat Targeter's MK-1 Enhancer

1x Hazmat Trapper's MK-1 Device

2x War Hero Relic of Boundless Age

 

If you have all the items above, using this lethality specc (that also is the best one for PvE right now, having all the datacrons, all the buffs, all companion missions done and with the Exotech stim, you should have reached the following stats: (also viewable on askmrrobot).

 

Primary

Strength 94.5

Aim 147.0

Cunning 2446.4

Endurance 1859.6

Willpower 94.5

 

 

Secondary

Power 943.0

Accuracy 300.0

Alacrity 0.0

Crit 349.0

Surge 300.0

 

 

Ranged

Damage (Pri) 1226.4 - 1327.4

Bonus Damage 772.4

Accuracy 100.27%

Critical Chance 41.99%

Critical Multiplier 76.28%

 

 

Tech

Bonus Damage 1066.5

Accuracy 110.27%

Critical Chance 40.82%

Critical Multiplier 76.28%

Activation Speed 4.00%

Edited November 1, 2012 by RikuvonDrake

While I agree with the majority of the above post (although my "BiS" listing is slightly different, stats come out more or less the same), I would like to point out that crit received from Cunning is, in fact, on a DR curve. It's just very very close to linear, but does in fact curve and cap out at 30% as well. We won't be hitting that point anytime soon (I haven't done the math, but the post above claims it won't be until 9000 cunning), but unless DR curves are adjusted for stat inflation when they increase the level cap it might be something we have to consider in the future.

 

As far as the previous posters opinion/info about main stat being better for classes with a 9% buff, but power being better for 6% classes, I would just like to mimic that as being a sound reasoning, and agree with it 100%.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Synavix

While I agree with the majority of the above post (although my "BiS" listing is slightly different, stats come out more or less the same), I would like to point out that crit received from Cunning is, in fact, on a DR curve. It's just very very close to linear, but does in fact curve and cap out at 30% as well. We won't be hitting that point anytime soon (I haven't done the math, but the post above claims it won't be until 9000 cunning), but unless DR curves are adjusted for stat inflation when they increase the level cap it might be something we have to consider in the future.

 

As far as the previous posters opinion/info about main stat being better for classes with a 9% buff, but power being better for 6% classes, I would just like to mimic that as being a sound reasoning, and agree with it 100%.

 

Yea, as long as the stats are close to the same it don't really matter where they come from, I build it in this way because of what stuff that could be created on my server to make it easier to obtain. And regarding crit-from-cunning-cap, that might totally be true, I haven't really digged a lot into it, I just calculated on 2.5k and kind of stuck to that. And yes, it might be something to think about for the future, but right now it dosn't really matter for our fellow snipers, but thanks for your input, I will look into it more later today =)