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New Species? Why not classes?


blackopsranger

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Anyone have insight into why there have been no new classes despite there being new species. I mean looking at other "successful MMOs" they added classes in addition to species when they released their expansions. KOTEE/KOTFE could have been a prime opportunity to do this.

Will we see new ones in the expansion, no. definitely not. and really all it is using a "C-Table" and mixing matching from the new class equivalents. For Example, Blazing bolts and heat-seeker missiles for a Gormak XX.

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In addition to what Kraysk said, what would a new class do differently?

 

SWTOR released with more than 8 classes in many respects since within each class except for dual saber there is more than one, or at least dramatic differences.

 

I'm not opposed to the idea per se, but I'm curious about what you think the new class should / would be besides graphical combat differences.

 

Dasty

Edited by Jdast
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In regards to a new class, a 3rd advance class added? Something that could be Hybrid of the current Adv classes? Or are you looking for a completely new model outside of the 8/16 Class/Advance system we have now. If a complete new model, do tell - and please don't use terms/classes from other mmo's (I don't give a rat's #$%) about hearing "they (bioware) should make a class like wOw's Priest, etc and yadi, yadi. Sell me on you ideas, if they are good I'll support it.
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Also remember one thing when adding a new class to one faction, you need to have a mirror class on the opposite faction and that is not always easy nor cost efficient in the long run. Most people can come up with one factions new class but they have a problem coming up with the opposite faction's mirror faction.
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The answer to your inquiry is readily available in the 9,000 other threads on this exact topic. You don't even have to search very hard to find them. You can probably find multiple threads on this topic in the first 5 pages of this forum.

 

Let's rehash the main points (again):

 

 

  • No necessary role for a new class to fill (lack of need)
  • Insufficient development resources to create:
    • 2 advanced classes
    • Faction mirror
    • Pub and Imp core stories (Lv 1-50 content)
    • Adjustments to existing content to integrate new class

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Anyone have insight into why there have been no new classes despite there being new species. I mean looking at other "successful MMOs" they added classes in addition to species when they released their expansions. KOTEE/KOTFE could have been a prime opportunity to do this.

Will we see new ones in the expansion, no. definitely not. and really all it is using a "C-Table" and mixing matching from the new class equivalents. For Example, Blazing bolts and heat-seeker missiles for a Gormak XX.

Simply stated: BW would like to spend as little money as possible.

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Topic has been covered many time in the past and resent past at that. All the same reasons given then will be ones given now as indeed in the thread a few days ago. Then again the OP knows this as he/she has been posting since 2014.

 

Not sure if BW has or has not given an official response about new classes, but for me the no response is as good as saying not going to happen. If BW has given a reply guess I must have just missed it.

 

I believe most players would like new classes (always some who won't I guess) so OP don't take the not going to happen as a negative reply or as don't want it, it's just players being more realistic.

Edited by DreadtechSavant
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I've always been in favor of a non force sensitive melee class, using a Star Wars martial arts form previously only known in a Mortal Kombat style Star Wars game I played on Playstation, Masters of Teras Kasi.

Since then, it's been mentioned in "Solo, a Star Wars Story" as a fighting style Quira learned from an underworld source.

The class I have in mind, would be similar to the blind member of the Church of the Force in Rogue 1, and the name I'd give this class is Teras Kasi Monk, though some may prefer another name since other games portray a monk as weaponless. Quira fought this style with a blade. Another "Priestly" class could be added to have two options as every other starting class. This priest would be the one without weapons, and focus on healing. Let's move on.

This class would give new use for what is now throw away garbage weapons, force pikes, vibro-weapons and such.

I doubt the game developers would have any interest in starting a whole new level one starting planet, so let's make this idea for an advanced level class. Say... Level 50 to start.

As for the starting planet, a previously unused but mentioned in canon (even obscure... remember Lando mentioning a place called Tanab in Return of the Jedi?) or completely made up (just not Honeyi'mhomia, or Mcstabia). When starting, both factions go through together as one, only committing to Empire or Republic at the end, when the peace is disturbed by an all out battle between the two. Players must choose which faction to escape with, shutting them off from the opposing faction forever after (unless they get to endgame and switch sides as every player also chooses.)

 

Future development of the idea... not likely, but in case of a reboot, having three factions, Republic, Empire and Underworld. For balance in this case, just to make the list of classes, let's add a couple classes to their opposite faction.

 

Republic:

Jedi Knight

Jedi Consular

SIS Agent

Republic Trooper

 

Empire:

Sith Warrior

Sith Inquisitor

Imperial Agent

Imperial Trooper

 

Unerworld:

Teras Kasi Monk

Teras Kasi Priest

Bounty Hunter

Smuggler

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I've always been in favor of a non force sensitive melee class, using a Star Wars martial arts form previously only known in a Mortal Kombat style Star Wars game I played on Playstation, Masters of Teras Kasi.

Since then, it's been mentioned in "Solo, a Star Wars Story" as a fighting style Quira learned from an underworld source.

The class I have in mind, would be similar to the blind member of the Church of the Force in Rogue 1, and the name I'd give this class is Teras Kasi Monk, though some may prefer another name since other games portray a monk as weaponless. Quira fought this style with a blade. Another "Priestly" class could be added to have two options as every other starting class. This priest would be the one without weapons, and focus on healing. Let's move on.

This class would give new use for what is now throw away garbage weapons, force pikes, vibro-weapons and such.

I doubt the game developers would have any interest in starting a whole new level one starting planet, so let's make this idea for an advanced level class. Say... Level 50 to start.

As for the starting planet, a previously unused but mentioned in canon (even obscure... remember Lando mentioning a place called Tanab in Return of the Jedi?) or completely made up (just not Honeyi'mhomia, or Mcstabia). When starting, both factions go through together as one, only committing to Empire or Republic at the end, when the peace is disturbed by an all out battle between the two. Players must choose which faction to escape with, shutting them off from the opposing faction forever after (unless they get to endgame and switch sides as every player also chooses.)

 

Future development of the idea... not likely, but in case of a reboot, having three factions, Republic, Empire and Underworld. For balance in this case, just to make the list of classes, let's add a couple classes to their opposite faction.

 

Republic:

Jedi Knight

Jedi Consular

SIS Agent

Republic Trooper

 

Empire:

Sith Warrior

Sith Inquisitor

Imperial Agent

Imperial Trooper

 

Unerworld:

Teras Kasi Monk

Teras Kasi Priest

Bounty Hunter

Smuggler

 

I like your list. Below is a link to a suggestion that would be good for the SIS (Republic side) / Imperial Agent (Empire side)

 

http://http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=964179&highlight=black+ops

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This game is too dead and makes too little profit for BW for such spending of time and money.

 

It is precisely the above that a new class is needed to dispel such notions. Still many players don't see beyond the box on the significance of a new class and what it means to the game future. They simplistically just think implementing a new class is just implementing a new class for its own sake. It goes beyond that.

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It is precisely the above that a new class is needed to dispel such notions. Still many players don't see beyond the box on the significance of a new class and what it means to the game future. They simplistically just think implementing a new class is just implementing a new class for its own sake. It goes beyond that.

 

Do you honestly beleive that the folks at EA and Bioware don't have teams of business analysts crunching the numbers on whether a new class would be profitable or not? I'd wager there are plenty of devs who would love to get the resources to add this sort of thing, and they get told by the bean-counters exactly what a money pit it would be.

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The answer to your inquiry is readily available in the 9,000 other threads on this exact topic. You don't even have to search very hard to find them. You can probably find multiple threads on this topic in the first 5 pages of this forum.

 

Let's rehash the main points (again):

 

 

  • No necessary role for a new class to fill (lack of need)
  • Insufficient development resources to create:
    • 2 advanced classes
    • Faction mirror
    • Pub and Imp core stories (Lv 1-50 content)
    • Adjustments to existing content to integrate new class

 

/Thread

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The answer to your inquiry is readily available in the 9,000 other threads on this exact topic. You don't even have to search very hard to find them. You can probably find multiple threads on this topic in the first 5 pages of this forum.

 

Let's rehash the main points (again):

 

 

  • No necessary role for a new class to fill (lack of need)
  • Insufficient development resources to create:
    • 2 advanced classes
    • Faction mirror
    • Pub and Imp core stories (Lv 1-50 content)
    • Adjustments to existing content to integrate new class

 

/thread

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Do you honestly beleive that the folks at EA and Bioware don't have teams of business analysts crunching the numbers on whether a new class would be profitable or not? I'd wager there are plenty of devs who would love to get the resources to add this sort of thing, and they get told by the bean-counters exactly what a money pit it would be.

 

Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.

 

What appears to be a non-issue for other MMOs (implementing a new class) become a show-stopper for SWTOR. The cost structure of this MMO just cannot afford it as an on-going concern as far as new development of new mechanism is concerned (all the new so-called expansions are just reusing SAME mechanism but renewing the content only. This would be termed as a major patch for other MMO and not a new expansion. New expansion meant a different thing as far as other MMO is concerned.).

 

Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.

 

IF SWTOR need to charge player a fee for new expansion (truly expansion and not just major patch) like other MMO (e.g. WoW) do, then charge a fee so that it can remain profitable. I rather pay for such a new expansion and get to enjoy more play value than just doing the same things on a new storyline and new rehash of PvP match, new rehash

FP, new rehash Ops which all seems deja vu in terms of play value. We get entertained on new content no doubt but after the first pass, its back to same old patterns pressing the same keystroke all over again.

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Bioware could have created two new classes, force user and non-force user, with kotet+kotfe, and spare some time making them as WoW hero classes. They would start at 50 with a personal story that would take them to 55-60, maybe 1-2 hours story, and instead of outlander, something else till comander.

 

It's a pity, i would really like new classes to play with, plus new individual stories, obviously, but i don't think BW has the manpower/budget/time/writters to pull it off.

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Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.

 

What appears to be a non-issue for other MMOs (implementing a new class) become a show-stopper for SWTOR. The cost structure of this MMO just cannot afford it as an on-going concern as far as new development of new mechanism is concerned (all the new so-called expansions are just reusing SAME mechanism but renewing the content only. This would be termed as a major patch for other MMO and not a new expansion. New expansion meant a different thing as far as other MMO is concerned.).

 

Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.

 

IF SWTOR need to charge player a fee for new expansion (truly expansion and not just major patch) like other MMO (e.g. WoW) do, then charge a fee so that it can remain profitable. I rather pay for such a new expansion and get to enjoy more play value than just doing the same things on a new storyline and new rehash of PvP match, new rehash

FP, new rehash Ops which all seems deja vu in terms of play value. We get entertained on new content no doubt but after the first pass, its back to same old patterns pressing the same keystroke all over again.

 

You are still insisting that NEW CLASS = MORE PROFIT because YOU claim you would pay more for it. I'm saying that if that were true, the people who actually analyze data at EA would already be demanding that BW do the work to get the money. EA loves nothing more than money.

 

EA has most assuredly crunched the numbers over and over again and determined that the POSSIBLE gain does not warrant the GUARANTEED expenditure. It's that simple. Big companies have amazing profit projection models that they use to make business decisions like this, and they aren't going to ignore those models because a tiny handful of extremely vocal players make the empty promise that they'd pay more for a new class.

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Same reason they didn't continue with class quests for existing classes, BW didn't want to spend the money. I've read that the original developers intended expansions to continue class stories not throw us all into one story.

 

I started with Guild Wars, Which by the time I started already had two expansions: Guild Wars: Factions and Guild Wars: Nightfall. The expansions had same basic classes plus 2 only available in each class. Set on same planet but different continents. You could at a certain point in each take a character to the others. Guild Wars: Eye of the North took existing characters into Northern Tyria. And was a prequel to Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars was odd that in it had only one playable race human. Guild Wars 2 added other races. I dont play GW2. Still occasionally load the original. But I've read about GW2 adding new content and a new class (actually a variation on a Guild Wars; Factions class),. Most people assume that a new race would come as there seem to be strong hints off it as there is a race with its own locked off section in the main city of the game. But last time I checked, they still have not added added a new playable race. Whether that indicates lake of funding or no I don't know. I don't play GW2 because I don't like the mechanics and it turns the lore of the original game upside down, turns GW2 human characters ancestors, the heroes of Guild Wars Prophecy into villains and the villains into heroes. Its insulting to my Guild Wars: Prophecy characters, And tells me everything I did in the game was wrong. Not the way to treat your fan base.

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Exactly, this is what I meant. By not implementing a new class (since launch), you are telling the whole world and specifically the other MMO competitors that you either run out of idea what to do (for a new class) (which I don't think its the case) OR you run out of money to be able to implement a new class to remain profitable.

What it really says is that the structure of the game makes adding new classes much, much more expensive than in other MMORPGs. In other MMORPGs (FF14 excepted, but read on), almost nothing in quest or mission structure depends on your class, whereas in SWTOR, each class has a fully voiced story and NPCs all over the place have class-specific dialogue, even if it's just the words they use to greet you. (Think of an Impsider who begins Prelude to Revan / Forged Alliances: Lana greets each "base" class differently: "Dark Lord", "Wrath", etc.)

 

That stuff, plus the class-specific voice-acting (not different lines, but different voices) in ordinary missions makes creating a new class more expensive than just "add some assets for new abilities, balance them properly, and post the patch" (because SWTOR has to do all that as well as creating and recording the new stories (one per faction plus ten companion stories, etc.) and fixing up all the dialogue.

 

FF14: Yes, FF14 has per-class stories, but they are, in essence, just training missions in how the class works, with a story to back them up, and they are relatively sparse compared to the main story where almost *nobody* mentions your class. (There's a small mention at the very beginning, where the Adventurer's Guild representative sends you to your initial class's guildhouse.)

Years back there is an objection to increase the mount speed because of engine limitation according to BW. Simple thing like increasing mount speed become an issue for SWTOR back then. But they managed to overcome it and today we have 5 speed for mount to choose from. They did it for mount speed, I am sure they can do it for the other new mechanisms such as a new class and tell the whole world that SWTOR is still kicking and alive and is an on-going concern.

And SWTOR mounts are still, even at PS5, glacially slow. (Compare a PS5 speeder, at about 38 mph, to Petey the Roller Beetle in GW2, at more than 130 mph.)

 

And of course they *can* do it. It's software, which is almost infinitely malleable. But changing software costs money and writers cost money and voice actors cost money and testing costs money, and when you add it up, it costs a *lot* of money.

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I think it sadly says a lot about the imaginations of our games population and its forum posters in general that more spend their time here telling other posters what can not be developed. Do you think our developers are total rubes or something? I think they are doing excellent things lately.

 

Of course a new class could be developed, and all the above 'concerns' can be easily addressed and overcome.

 

Obviously some sort of level 50+ (or 60,65,70,75,whatever) type of advanced/advanced class thing would be easy enough but a more imaginative solution would be maybe it could start at level 1 and with a few tricky cutscenes on each planet lead them to planetary and heroic type side missions and their already there cutscenes providing them with an entire cutscened leveling experience up.

 

or shoehorning them into as many other classes missions as possible,

 

or even give them missions on every planet to accompany the other classes on their class missions

 

Im sure our good Devs could come up with something and the whole game could be enriched and new and returning players could come flooding in, it could be good.

 

edited because I wanted to add-

They did it for mount speed
!!!!! Edited by Monumenta
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Bioware could have created two new classes, force user and non-force user, with kotet+kotfe, and spare some time making them as WoW hero classes. They would start at 50 with a personal story that would take them to 55-60, maybe 1-2 hours story, and instead of outlander, something else till comander.

 

It's a pity, i would really like new classes to play with, plus new individual stories, obviously, but i don't think BW has the manpower/budget/time/writters to pull it off.

 

Unfortunately, it's not really that simple. Even starting the story at level 60 and only doing the Outlander/Commander story would cause trouble. Think about it. You're gonna want to do FPs and Ops with this character, so that's new lines and voice acting for all of the existing FPs and Ops, plus their related stories. You'll want the option to do heroics and dailies too, so that's more lines and voice acting to get those in. But then if you do the heroics, it'll be weird to not have the corresponding planetary missions, so that's even more lines and voice acting. Then you have the events that you'll want to participate in, so a bit more lines and voice acting.

 

There's a lot of legacy content that would need updates for a new class, even if they don't go through the effort of making them a 1-50 class story. I just don't think that's feasible at this point. I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong, but I'd be very surprised if it ever happens.

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You are still insisting that NEW CLASS = MORE PROFIT because YOU claim you would pay more for it. I'm saying that if that were true, the people who actually analyze data at EA would already be demanding that BW do the work to get the money. EA loves nothing more than money.

 

EA has most assuredly crunched the numbers over and over again and determined that the POSSIBLE gain does not warrant the GUARANTEED expenditure. It's that simple. Big companies have amazing profit projection models that they use to make business decisions like this, and they aren't going to ignore those models because a tiny handful of extremely vocal players make the empty promise that they'd pay more for a new class.

 

So were just forgetting about the lack of profitability on Galactic Starfighter, the monthly sub model, Galactic Command and a slew of other ideas that have come from this mastermind studio? Because you seem to have a lot of faith in the idea that the bean counters have all the say so here. The longevity of a lot of their implemented content remains unknown by empirical sense (none of us have any idea how often any content is actually run numberswise) but we absolutely know what's basically dead, rarely touched, still has a pulse and is somewhat popular today going by anecdotal evidence.

 

I believe a new class would bring some life into the game but as the years go on, the game loses relevance, the mmo consumer base are already aware or have tried the game, there's no guarantee that it would be done well or that it would help retain more than the active playerbase. No one should expect a miracle but its definitely doable.

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Unfortunately, it's not really that simple. Even starting the story at level 60 and only doing the Outlander/Commander story would cause trouble. Think about it. You're gonna want to do FPs and Ops with this character, so that's new lines and voice acting for all of the existing FPs and Ops, plus their related stories. You'll want the option to do heroics and dailies too, so that's more lines and voice acting to get those in. But then if you do the heroics, it'll be weird to not have the corresponding planetary missions, so that's even more lines and voice acting. Then you have the events that you'll want to participate in, so a bit more lines and voice acting.

 

There's a lot of legacy content that would need updates for a new class, even if they don't go through the effort of making them a 1-50 class story. I just don't think that's feasible at this point. I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong, but I'd be very surprised if it ever happens.

 

I reject the notion that game developers cant figure out which of the existing classes cut scenes would work for a hypothetical new class with fps, ops, planetaries, etc.

 

I mean with no thought whatsoever Id say smuggler responses for a non force user and jedi knight for a force user but I bet if it was my job to figure this out I could comb through each and every sequence to pick and choose and shoehorn in a new class right in there with very little new voice acting.

 

I appreciate how its easier to rail on about what cant be done and why but we really all benefit and look much smarter when we try to imagine the limits of what can.

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So were just forgetting about the lack of profitability on Galactic Starfighter, the monthly sub model, Galactic Command and a slew of other ideas that have come from this mastermind studio? Because you seem to have a lot of faith in the idea that the bean counters have all the say so here. The longevity of a lot of their implemented content remains unknown by empirical sense (none of us have any idea how often any content is actually run numberswise) but we absolutely know what's basically dead, rarely touched, still has a pulse and is somewhat popular today going by anecdotal evidence.

 

I believe a new class would bring some life into the game but as the years go on, the game loses relevance, the mmo consumer base are already aware or have tried the game, there's no guarantee that it would be done well or that it would help retain more than the active playerbase. No one should expect a miracle but its definitely doable.

 

well said

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