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The Stingfire is seriously overpowered!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
The Stingfire is seriously overpowered!

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.19.2015 , 04:06 PM | #21
How about if were going to talk about team strategies (Like the dreaded Bomber/Gunship setup) everyone stops talking about the 1 ship they want to use to counter it.

On top of that, can we stop using the perfect strategy to counter Scouts as a reason why it's not a good ship. In every other situation other then killing this setup a Scout is really good.

The really funny part here is Bomber > Scout > Gunship > Bomber is the meta at the moment. However the Bombers in this setup counter the Scouts harder then Scouts counter the Gunships. Because of this the optimal strategy is 8 Gunships, because 4 of your Gunships counter the Bombers and the other 4 are equal with their Gunships.


This is how the meta works currently, stop complaining that opponents are using a strategy to counter what is right now probably the most popular ship.
DrakolichDrakolích
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SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
01.19.2015 , 04:51 PM | #22
You forgot strike fighters in the meta! Oh, BW did too.....
Renegade-One / Leggogurl / Aimbot / Even'ess / Status

Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
01.19.2015 , 06:10 PM | #23
@Drakolich: This isn't only the strategy to counter scouts , this is the winning strategy in TDM - a fortress strategy. And thats the problem.

Practically all mixes of GS and bombers are countered only by combos of GS and bombers; with exception of bomber majority where CP strikes sometimes have something to say. And, please, don't say that 8 scouts (any tier) > 8 GS, because it just plain isn't true, unless we're talking about voip premades where they have a chance. Few well placed ion shots will render most of the group useless. How good is the allmighty scout without engines? ...

And I am still OK with that - if the GS/Bomber tactic happens, I am just hopping into my own GS. Sure, it's less exciting , i become a game of chess - but I can still play it.

I just laugh in a face of anyone saying that T2 scout is 'the most OP ship'. If someone likes slaughter of newbs, and 'gg' means a 50:0 win against stationary targets then maybe it is true. In all other games the 'most OP ship' is clearly a gunship.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.19.2015 , 07:59 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Bolo_Yeung View Post
@Drakolich: This isn't only the strategy to counter scouts , this is the winning strategy in TDM - a fortress strategy. And thats the problem.

Practically all mixes of GS and bombers are countered only by combos of GS and bombers; with exception of bomber majority where CP strikes sometimes have something to say. And, please, don't say that 8 scouts (any tier) > 8 GS, because it just plain isn't true, unless we're talking about voip premades where they have a chance. Few well placed ion shots will render most of the group useless. How good is the allmighty scout without engines? ...

And I am still OK with that - if the GS/Bomber tactic happens, I am just hopping into my own GS. Sure, it's less exciting , i become a game of chess - but I can still play it.

I just laugh in a face of anyone saying that T2 scout is 'the most OP ship'. If someone likes slaughter of newbs, and 'gg' means a 50:0 win against stationary targets then maybe it is true. In all other games the 'most OP ship' is clearly a gunship.

I honestly don't know what game you are playing if you don't think 8 evasion Scouts wouldn't beat 8 Gunships. The Gunships would get destroyed, it wouldn't even be close.

So laugh away but I'm done arguing with you.
DrakolichDrakolích
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SithAceI's Avatar


SithAceI
01.19.2015 , 09:22 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
I honestly don't know what game you are playing if you don't think 8 evasion Scouts wouldn't beat 8 Gunships. The Gunships would get destroyed, it wouldn't even be close.

So laugh away but I'm done arguing with you.
Wow Bolo_Yeung you actually pissed off "THE" nicest and most helpful guy in the GSF community!
Skywallkr Sithace, Sithace-one and Super Secret Alts!
Harbinger, Red Eclipse, JC, TEH and Shadowlands
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Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
01.19.2015 , 09:24 PM | #26
I'm under the impression Bolo has yet to meet a barely decent Scout.
"If it wasn't broken, we shall break it. If it is balanced, we shall beat it until slow and painful death follows. If it is overpowered, it is working as intended." - Bioware 2015

Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
01.19.2015 , 09:26 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Bolo_Yeung View Post
@Drakolich: This isn't the only strategy to counter scouts , this is the winning strategy in TDM - a fortress strategy. And thats the problem.

Practically all mixes of GS and bombers are countered only by combos of GS and bombers; with exception of bomber majority where CP strikes sometimes have something to say. And, please, don't say that 8 scouts (any tier) > 8 GS, because it just plain isn't true, unless we're talking about voip premades where they have a chance. Few well placed ion shots will render most of the group useless. How good is the allmighty scout without engines? ...

And I am still OK with that - if the GS/Bomber tactic happens, I am just hopping into my own GS. Sure, it's less exciting , i become a game of chess - but I can still play it.

I just laugh in a face of anyone saying that T2 scout is 'the most OP ship'. If someone likes slaughter of newbs, and 'gg' means a 50:0 win against stationary targets then maybe it is true. In all other games the 'most OP ship' is clearly a gunship.
Situational awareness of where the railguns are + smart use of cooldowns + smart use of LOS = ability to get into a bomber ball to score a kill on a GS and get back out again without taking serious damage.

So in a worst case hard counter team composition, a scout pilot that knows what they're doing can still be effective, though at a lower rate than in a more scout friendly environment. That's in a situation where it's many enemies vs. one scout.

Contrast now with worst case scenarios for other ship classes.

Gunship soloing a swarm of scouts?

Bomber soloing anything away from heavy cover?

Strike solo vs a mix of scouts and gunships?

The T1 and T2 scouts are far better at handling the optimal counter-comp team against them than any other ships are at handling their counter-comps, if the pilot knows what they're doing.

For gunships to really seriously threaten skilled pilots, either the target has to be constrained to a small area as when defending a sat, or the gunships need to have a localized numerical superiority and appropriate range. If it's three gunships against three scouts, the gunships are going to be neutralized or dead in short order if the scout pilots are competent. If it's three gunships against one scout within range, and two scouts too far away to be a threat, then the gunships probably win. That's a matter of the scout pilot exercising poor judgment though, not a hardware advantage of the gunships.

In GSF everything is OP against poor judgment and poor situational awareness, and there's a lot of those to be OP against.
"A padawan's master sets their Jedi trial, Rajivari set mine."
- Zhe Lian, Sage.

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Verain's Avatar


Verain
01.19.2015 , 10:55 PM | #28
Uh oh, looks like one game happened when no one on the winning team picked a scout this one time when a premade wanted to own some scrubies on the best gunship map. Battlescout class forums to the rescue! Clearly, battle scouts need buffs!

Based on the map, it is clearly mad trolling for the lulz while your nubs feed them hard by flying in like the foodships they are. Do you really feel the battle would have gone differently if your team had chosen type 2 bombers and type 1 gunships? Do you really feel that you were on equal footing, team wise? Was 8x flashfire what your clearly organized team was GOING to run, but instead felt they needed to go with some mediocre strikes, and a comet breaker to supplement your double novadive strategy? Man, you guys were JUST THIS CLOSE. Clearly a documented case of CLASS IMBALANCE.


Get real.

They could have flown anything and gotten their results, and likely do on many games.



There are very few games in super serious nights that don't involve moderate to heavy use of battle scouts. I know that a bunch of players like yourself are all about calling for gunship nerfs, and it is my dearest, dearest hope that the devs have the lot of you veritable spammers on ignore.


Quote:
Yet, people still say that the Stingfire is the 'most OP ship'...
Yea, we say that because it's the highest dps ship, the highest sustained damage ship, the hardest to peel off allies, ties lesser ships for fastest and most maneuverable, has access to all the top components and top secondaries, has the gunship specific burst laser cannon AND the strike iconic quad laser, and basically has to stretch pretty hard to find a poor set of components. Furthermore this is clear dev intent, with access to "supposed-to-be-top-notch" components like quick charge and directional, in addition to "actually-ended-up-amazing" components.

So you look at all that, then you post a screenshot where you are up against double premade, and come to the conclusion that class balance is the issue?

What could you do? What should you do? Versus that, let me tell you: if there's any ship on your bar that lets you win that ship is godmode so it's great that there isn't. And from THEIR perspective, they have PLENTY of reasons to not want to run a flashfire in a full farm game. Maybe they want to practice for when they fight real opponents. Maybe they want to req those ships. Maybe they like trolling and eating food. Maybe the food gets eaten SO FAST that they can't even GET kills on their flashfire- unlike real pilots, perhaps your teammates flew in so slowly and predictably that everything within 15km just died instantly, so it would be boring to even be on a flashfire- why run something that can peel when no one needs peels, why run something that can intercept when your opponents don't need to be intercepted?





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How good will be your bloated stats if nearly no one will be playing?...
STOP IT. You don't get to hold queues hostage.

1)- It's a pvp game. It's not our job to be nice to the enemy. It's our job to kill them. Players aren't responsible for the success of GSF, the devs are.
Special Note: Drako came in here to discuss this with you, and he goes through GREAT effort to get new players, train them. He has tutorial videos and does 1 on 1 tutoring, goes to all servers and flies with everyone. He ACTUALLY IS helping the community. Stop whining that some players play ships you don't understand, some of the time. It's ludicrous.

2)- You don't hold queues hostage. The game wouldn't have more players if only something something game balance. For every noisy nerf herder there's a bunch of players who like the game the way it is. Matchmaking issues plague all of SWTOR, and the lack of cross server or mega server is a huge detriment. But you don't hold queues hostage. Think about why GSF has all the players it does, versus all the failed games. Now think why it doesn't have as many players as some really successful game. How close do you think you are?
How can you tell? If you are that wise and smart, you should go into the stock market and double your money THIS VERY WEEK. You'll be a billionare in half a year. Then I'll listen to your sage advice about the population of GSF, and how the devs need to nerf whatever kills you, and how the aces need to stop queuing, because only if the most passionate players quit will the scrubs who don't understand spacial orientation or boosters play twenty games instead of fifteen and that's what GSF needs.



Quote:
How about if were going to talk about team strategies (Like the dreaded Bomber/Gunship setup) everyone stops talking about the 1 ship they want to use to counter it.
Drako has been super polite in this thread, but if you get nothing else out of it, take this away from it. This line, right here.

Quote:
this is the winning strategy in TDM - a fortress strategy.
If you watch the super serious nights, you don't see a "fortress strategy" as the normal event. You normally see a reasonable mix of ships fighting. If somone went all in on gunships there's a lot of foils to that. You think you're the only pilot who has seen a bomberball? You think this is new, and no one has talked about it before? Drako has told you what, in general, you would want to use to counter their team work.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

TheGreatSatan's Avatar


TheGreatSatan
01.20.2015 , 01:50 AM | #29
Today in a pug vs. pug match on The Bastion, the republic side went mostly bombers/gunships at the start. Imp side almost universally switched to gunships. It was a shooting gallery after that. At one point I'd hear railgun shots about every 1/5th of a second.

PEW.
PEW.
PEW.
PEW.
PEW.

And people dying everywhere. It was so cute.

Oh, they switched to scouts and strikes after enough dying in the bombers, sure enough. T'wasn't enough, though, no sir. The steady drumbeat of half a dozen railguns continued as did the soft symphony of exploding starfighters.
Strix of The Bastion

Asbetos's Avatar


Asbetos
01.20.2015 , 02:13 AM | #30
Wow Urt, I really didn't expect this kind of whining from you...


Quote: Originally Posted by Bolo_Yeung View Post
for maybe 6 seconds in 1 minute (concentrated fire). Even in a GS i am pretty much able to run away from a scout. If I get first shot with ion rail, well... sitting duck.
TT which you can have up 50% of the time doesn't count here? Let me refresh your memory... Accuracy +10%, enemy Evasion -5% (with T4 left), Critical Chance +15%, Critical Magnitude +25% (with T5 left) AND it applies to both primaries and secondaries.


Quote:
Time from first damage to kill - GS against scout ... 16% 0 seconds (1 shot), full charge and a small charge (about 1,5 seconds ) without crit. Time to kill with ion rail? Who cares, after first hit the scout can power dive once... ir just wait helplessly.
Chance to even hit an evasion scout with a slug at 10K?
103-28=79% and that's only if the shot is dead-on. If you let that happen, well...
pop DF: 103-(28+27)=a WHOOPING 48%
With all that and the amazing maneuverability of the cattlescout, it's really YOUR problem if you get hit by a railgun.


Quote:
And then GS BR away... while another GS lands an ion rail hit...
It's a 2v1 battle, what do you expect? Even in that case, it's not much of a problem to keep them both entertained as long as you know how to use your CDs and fly.


Quote:
The problem is that the only good counters for GS with bombers are... GS and bombers. the 'OPed' scouts won't do anything much against a bomber nest or GS wall.
As people already told you, that composition is a counter for scouts. Even then, there is a rather simple solution to it, but you have to work as a team (like the enemy is obviously doing): you can either sacrifice a scout or 2 to clear the minefield and the rest moves in and wipes the floor with the GSs and bombers OR you can have a scout with EMP field (weren't you the 1 usually screaming about how people never heard of it?) and the rest moves in and cleans up.


Quote:
And scouts do more damage? Sure, in 'newbie game, stats farming' maybe. In a game on average and higher level the GS can do more hull damage than scout can dream of (assuming the same skill levels).
In a game "on average and higher levels" the GS can't sit around and shoot, it can get a shot or 2 off every now and then.


Quote:
Pressing Tab (and as a GS you can fire without having target selected, so you can do this without losing your firepower) will reveal enemy ship closing, Can you do it on 'OPed' scout?... good luck.
No, your target will be dead before you even need to check.


Quote:
Well, from my experience it is quite the contrary - most of the matches I fly GS, I have much higher damage and kill counts. I don't do complicated match to count my chance, I fly. Or stay in place and charge rail.
Please do try that the next time you're up against me. Last GS that I focused hard (on the Sting, mind you) ended up with double digit deaths, and he's a pretty good GS that actually runs when he has a scout within 3K.


Quote:
So don't talk anymore about 'OPed' scouts becuse I will only laugh at you then...
You 1 laugh at all of us while all of us laugh at you. Fine by me.


Quote:
Assuming the same skill lvel, those OP scouts are losing to all GS/bomber combos or pure GS/pure bomber teams.
As said earlier, that is a counter to scouts, but it can be beaten even with scouts only. Hardly, but not impossible while 8 strikers can do... what exactly against 8 cattlescouts?
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