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The Stingfire is seriously overpowered!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
The Stingfire is seriously overpowered!

Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
01.19.2015 , 12:54 AM | #1
... people still are willing to have it in their hangar!

http://imgur.com/shLPjR9

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.19.2015 , 01:36 AM | #2
So you played vs the perfect counter to Scouts and are complaining that what Scouts aren't good enough? I don't understand what point you are trying to make, unless it's sarcasm then it's hilarious.
DrakolichDrakolích
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DamascusAdontise's Avatar


DamascusAdontise
01.19.2015 , 01:37 AM | #3
Thats interesting, in that whole match only 4 people had a t2 scout in their hanger, and at the time of the pic no one was using theirs. Interesting indeed!
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Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
01.19.2015 , 01:46 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Drakkolich View Post
So you played vs the perfect counter to Scouts and are complaining that what Scouts aren't good enough? I don't understand what point you are trying to make, unless it's sarcasm then it's hilarious.
Yes, it is a sarcasm.

The 'deathball' isn't just a counter to scouts, How much Stingfires, 'most OP ships' are in battle? Yet the deathball still is working nearly perfectly (well they should watch their flank a little more... the scoure would be perfect then ).
it is a counter to virtually everything in TDM - and a pretty everything in domination. Yet, people still say that the Stingfire is the 'most OP ship'...

And no, I am not complaining about a match. With the new records thread the people are focused on getting most win % ratio, so it's natural that they are doing double premades. I am just proving that to all GS pilots who are complaining about scouts not being as easy kills as others.
GS is the most OP ship

zvbm's Avatar


zvbm
01.19.2015 , 02:56 AM | #5
The optimal counter for the 4GS + 4Bomber setup is to go 8GS which in turn is contered by 4GS+4scouts. I believe Drakolich has a video somewhere which showcases just this. Unfortunately, your team wasn't in a position to field enough gunships.

I feel that the problem with the gunship bomber deathballs is not so much that they can't be countered but that they have a very low skill floor to set up. You can have an effective deathball with stock bombers and gunships piloted by relatively inexperienced pilots. Just spend the initial 5k fleet requisition grant to get the quarrel/mangler and the rampart/razorwire and you're all set. However, to properly counter this you require a bit of requisition spent in a GS, with both railguns at t4 (ion prefrably at t5 with the regen blocking talent).

I've been daydreaming about GSF balance a bit and came up with something which I haven't seen discussed on these forums. What if railgun accuracy was tied to zoom? Right now, there is no cost for zooming out all the way while scoped to get the best turning rate. If there was a drastic drop in accuracy when zoomed out (say 50%) and a corresponding increase in accuracy (something like 20%) for being zoomed all the way in, it would make it a good deal harder for a gunship to nail someone who was charging them.

Thoughts?

~Zen
GSF: No one can hear you QQ in space.

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.19.2015 , 05:00 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by zvbm View Post
The optimal counter for the 4GS + 4Bomber setup is to go 8GS which in turn is contered by 4GS+4scouts. I believe Drakolich has a video somewhere which showcases just this. Unfortunately, your team wasn't in a position to field enough gunships.

I feel that the problem with the gunship bomber deathballs is not so much that they can't be countered but that they have a very low skill floor to set up. You can have an effective deathball with stock bombers and gunships piloted by relatively inexperienced pilots. Just spend the initial 5k fleet requisition grant to get the quarrel/mangler and the rampart/razorwire and you're all set. However, to properly counter this you require a bit of requisition spent in a GS, with both railguns at t4 (ion prefrably at t5 with the regen blocking talent).

I've been daydreaming about GSF balance a bit and came up with something which I haven't seen discussed on these forums. What if railgun accuracy was tied to zoom? Right now, there is no cost for zooming out all the way while scoped to get the best turning rate. If there was a drastic drop in accuracy when zoomed out (say 50%) and a corresponding increase in accuracy (something like 20%) for being zoomed all the way in, it would make it a good deal harder for a gunship to nail someone who was charging them.

Thoughts?

~Zen
I think this thread is what you were talking about.

As far as the accuracy on Railguns going up and down with zooms I'd rather just see the zoomed out version be the default and have zoomed in add a little accuracy. Evasion is already so freaking good vs railguns.
DrakolichDrakolích
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SithAceI's Avatar


SithAceI
01.19.2015 , 06:09 AM | #7
I can only say for myself but I was solo queing that one. Damned conquest makes me use the Jurg! LOL
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Bolo_Yeung's Avatar


Bolo_Yeung
01.19.2015 , 07:22 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by SithAceI View Post
I can only say for myself but I was solo queing that one. Damned conquest makes me use the Jurg! LOL
I find it hard to believe...



Anyway, I dont care much, but next time think about new players... How good will be your bloated stats if nearly no one will be playing?...

PS. Drakolich... with all due respect for your skill and knowledge, don't tell me that GS needs more accuracy for countering those 'OPed' scouts... because they are already doing it way too efficiently. Assuming the same level of skill and coordination of course.
And no, I do not mean 1v1 duels because 1v1 rarely happens in a match on above novice level.


Edit down: yeah yeah... and how often do you see 50% of battlescouts in a match? Now, how often it is 50% GS in TDM/50% bombers in domination , later phase (earlier scouts are used for capping fast).\

In the match I have posted a screenshoot, I scored 2 kills, only with GS. (all ships on similar level of commedations).

The only situation where team of 4+ Stingfires is better than 4+Gs is against a newb team, where scouts mobility allow to get kills faster.

SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
01.19.2015 , 07:27 AM | #9
The scout is optomized perfectly to be a killing machine early. An accuracy + crit talent that also dispels evasion, a missile break + evasion adder, a missile break that also lines you up head on, the natural evasion, and the copilot ability. Couple the best offensive combination for devastation with the ability to not have to be stationary when firing, you have the best hunter in the game. The only bit about being OP is that it's currently the only build that is THAT optomized.

The ships aren't OP - RNG is.
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SammyGStatus's Avatar


SammyGStatus
01.19.2015 , 07:48 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Bolo_Yeung View Post
I find it hard to believe...



Anyway, I dont care much, but next time think about new players... How good will be your bloated stats if nearly no one will be playing?...

PS. Drakolich... with all due respect for your skill and knowledge, don't tell me that GS needs more accuracy for countering those 'OPed' scouts... because they are already doing it way too efficiently. Assuming the same level of skill and coordination of course.
And no, I do not mean 1v1 duels because 1v1 rarely happens in a match on above novice level.
You were okay before you continued typing....

This is just wrong. New players can't be expected to be effective participants in high level matches, so we'll omit that bit about novice level, since I often don't base the meta off those who're just beginning. That said, you want to balance GSF for newbs? Don't have new players play against vets. Solve the actual problem by fixing what's broken, not citing cries for OP.

The TTK for a scout is under 1 second depending the build. The TTK for a GS is a minimum of 3 seconds (2.7s with talent), and that requires a 16% crit on a scout, or DO. Even if the gunship hahas DO, a scout with DO is capable of killing faster (charge time).

A GOOD scout, like the kind at the more advanced level, will not be approaching GSs on a straight approach. They're corkscrewing, coming from many angles and dodging by the sheer mobility of the scout. They then are within 4000m and light you up with quads and pods, popping targetting telemetry for good measure, cuz crits for kicks.

Against a gunship wall, a scout isn't going to be a good choice, especially if there are drones and mines, just like if there is a team of nothing but acouts, a bomber squad with gunships is a good counter.

Highest damage in the game comes from scouts. They don't have to be stationary to fire. Their engine components work more frequently and use lless energy through boost. They have the highest natural evasion in the game. The can close the gap of 15000 without being hit in the time it takes to charge 1 railgun. They can be outfitted to have the fastest turning in the game. They can naturally just change directi ok ns to have infinite missile breaks, assuming no spam.

At the highest level of 1v1 duels between GS and Scout, scouts win more. Tom and I had a match on Jung'Ma. He accounted for 8 or my 9 deaths. I think I accounted for MAYBE 6? Teams weren't even a consideration because we met in open space. Even though Tom isn't running an evasion build, the amount of rails I shot at him and missed is maddening, but it's because he's not flying in a straight line. He's manuevering and dodging, and getting an average damage of 70k. The highest GS average is 57k at the moment. That's what happens when the opportunity cost for missing is higher on a GS than it is on a scout.

Especially since the engine nerf along with the ion nerfs, the meta has been favoring scouts for a while now.

Edit: 4 stings vs 4 GSs still lend advantage to the sting in terms of overall potential, with the pilot skill being the determining factor. Our Actuary, someone who's job it is to work with number and statistics, percentages, calculatikns, comparisons, etc. was one of the best Gunship pilots in the game. Since they nerfs GS, his math indicates that the Scout has the highest potential for damage as well as killing probability. These are the opinions that shape my beliefs - if the dude was that good in a GS and he switched to scout because he can identifidentify mathematically that there is a correlation between winning and having higher stats, and flying a flashfire, then it's probably right. Judging by the records threads too, i'd say so. Scouts have top dps and top overall damage.

The bomber ball / gs wall is a tactic to be countered with counter tactics. Scouts dont have much of a place when your opposition field that team
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