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Do you roll and climb or roll and dive?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Do you roll and climb or roll and dive?

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
01.18.2015 , 11:10 AM | #1
PSA for new pilots: all ships pitch faster than they yaw, so when making a hard turn, you should roll 90 degrees and pitch.

My question for experienced pilots is this: in general, do you climb or dive to make hard turns?

I have noticed that I have a habit of rolling to dive, which is rather counterintuitive. Real airplanes roll and climb to make turns (for reasons of aerodynamics and visibility). I'm not sure why I picked up my peculiar habit, but it is muscle memory now.

Perhaps it developed because Power Dive conditioned me to be extra cognizant of what is below me, and because a roll and Power Dive can be used to make a hard turn.

I suppose it has a slight benefit in that most people pursuing me, who see me roll, probably expect me to climb. That being said, I do have more limited visibility below my ship than above it, because of UI elements and the ship model itself.

I'm curious if anyone else has a bias toward rolling and diving like me.
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tommmsunb's Avatar


tommmsunb
01.18.2015 , 11:11 AM | #2
Neither, I do a mix of yaw and pitch and roll when I do hard turns because its harder to hit somebody who's corkscrewing.
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Caernos's Avatar


Caernos
01.18.2015 , 11:24 AM | #3
Most of my flight experience, prior to GSF, came from the Ace Combat games on consoles. In that game, whenever turning it's always quicker to roll and then pull back on the stick (which I guess would indicate climbing?) It's a habit I've picked up and carried over to here and I just use it for diving, climbing, or turning.

Don't know if that makes sense, but that's basically it for me.

I still don't have the strafing thing down yet, though I did end up using it on a bomber tucked into a corner one match. Think he was a little surprised as I crawled into view and unloaded on him.
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Ryuku-sama's Avatar


Ryuku-sama
01.18.2015 , 11:28 AM | #4
Roll and climb.. Sorry Nemmy but you're the weird one here
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Ramalina's Avatar


Ramalina
01.18.2015 , 12:00 PM | #5
Roll and climb, and the reason for that is my history in sims that model pilot physiological response as well as aerodynamics.

With a G suit and conditioning a pilot can handle around 6-7 G extended turns and brief excursions to 8-10 G turns, if pitching toward the pilot's head.

In a negative G nose down pitch a pilot generally will experience red-out at between -3 and -5 Gs.

The real problem though, is that if you spend time at less than 0.5 positive Gs it affects the body's ability to compensate for high positive G forces. So if you make a brief excursion to -1 G, when you try to pull a hard positive G turn you'll black out at 3-5 Gs. If you're dogfighting someone who stayed positive G the entire time and can pull a 7 + G turn, that's pretty much a free kill for them in a WVR engagement.

Another factor is that depending on the plane and flight conditions, after 3 - 12 seconds of zero or negative G the fuel system won't be able to handle it, and your engines will go out. While the pumps can work while inverted or negative G, that doesn't help when the fuel pickup is at the bottom of the tank and the fuel is being held against the top of the tank by acceleration resulting from maneuvers.

As far as airframes go, they are built to be stronger in the +G than -G direction, but the limiting factor is really the pilot's circulatory system (at least for fighters and attack craft, civilian models you might still be conscious when the wings come off).

So unless you have acceleration compensators (SW universe) or a pilot's chair that can swivel upside down when you pull -G maneuvers, the general rule in air combat is to stay away from zero and negative G maneuvers unless it's the only alternative to certain death.
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
01.18.2015 , 12:04 PM | #6
I climb. And I wasn't into flight simulators before.

I don't think you get much of an advantage into diving.
Personally, I don't look at the direction one is rolling. Maybe that's because only few people roll before hand, maybe that's because one could roll only shortly before the turn so that it's impossible to predict, or maybe that's just the one information too much for me, but diving instead of climbing would have no effect on me I believe. So I assume not so many people would be tricked.

Danalon's Avatar


Danalon
01.18.2015 , 12:41 PM | #7
Climbing in dogfights, diving when following someone around a satellite.

Nemarus's Avatar


Nemarus
01.18.2015 , 01:10 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Ramalina View Post
Roll and climb, and the reason for that is my history in sims that model pilot physiological response as well as aerodynamics.

With a G suit and conditioning a pilot can handle around 6-7 G extended turns and brief excursions to 8-10 G turns, if pitching toward the pilot's head.

In a negative G nose down pitch a pilot generally will experience red-out at between -3 and -5 Gs.

The real problem though, is that if you spend time at less than 0.5 positive Gs it affects the body's ability to compensate for high positive G forces. So if you make a brief excursion to -1 G, when you try to pull a hard positive G turn you'll black out at 3-5 Gs. If you're dogfighting someone who stayed positive G the entire time and can pull a 7 + G turn, that's pretty much a free kill for them in a WVR engagement.

Another factor is that depending on the plane and flight conditions, after 3 - 12 seconds of zero or negative G the fuel system won't be able to handle it, and your engines will go out. While the pumps can work while inverted or negative G, that doesn't help when the fuel pickup is at the bottom of the tank and the fuel is being held against the top of the tank by acceleration resulting from maneuvers.

As far as airframes go, they are built to be stronger in the +G than -G direction, but the limiting factor is really the pilot's circulatory system (at least for fighters and attack craft, civilian models you might still be conscious when the wings come off).

So unless you have acceleration compensators (SW universe) or a pilot's chair that can swivel upside down when you pull -G maneuvers, the general rule in air combat is to stay away from zero and negative G maneuvers unless it's the only alternative to certain death.
Thank you for the cool post. I wasn't expecting my dumb question to result in something so interesting and educational
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http://EclipseSquadron.enjin.com Imperial GSF-focused guild

"Serve the Emperor above all others."

Drakkolich's Avatar


Drakkolich
01.18.2015 , 03:07 PM | #9
I always climbed I just did it naturally after the many hours of playing and getting used to rolling. I've never played any flight game before this so I was curious as to why I was doing it and watched a few videos of myself playing.

I realized I can see more when climbing then when diving because your ship is less in the way of your vision.
I've been told by my friends I preroll like crazy though so many this idea of predicting where someones going to go by their rolling might be bad for me. Might be something to work on.
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zaskar's Avatar


zaskar
01.18.2015 , 06:17 PM | #10
it's a SPACE SHIP, mkay?

Since we have no yaw control, no tailslides or that would be my goto maneuver. I really wish we had thrust vectoring in the SW universe... So I rely on a reverse half cuban eight, right out of The Great War, with bi/tri wings.

Pitch up 45, roll to inverted 45, pull out of the eight at around 5/8s right in whoever is trying to get angle on me, face.