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Do I really Need VOIP for HM operations


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Every time I see people looking to build a HM Op's groups (S&V or TFB) they always say stuff like.

 

TS3 is required

 

Must have Mumble

 

Need to have Ventrilo

 

Is this really necessary or are people just being elitist's. I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

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Groups require it so they can be organized. So that you can hear something being called out. It helps to prevent it from becoming a cluster****. If you're not in voice chat it is usually assumed that a wipe is your fault, since you are unaware what everyone else is talking about/doing.
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In short, yes. Unless you already know the operation very well, you should at least be able to listen to the raid leader's fight explanations and instructions, as well as mid-fight call-outs and strategy changes. The HM version of operations require much more coordination than their SM versions, and I personally wouldn't bother with someone I didn't know that wasn't willing to join us in vent.
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Every time I see people looking to build a HM Op's groups (S&V or TFB) they always say stuff like.

 

TS3 is required

 

Must have Mumble

 

Need to have Ventrilo

 

Is this really necessary or are people just being elitist's. I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

 

If you've never done the OPs before, then I would say it's certainly a must.

 

If you're comfortable with the OPs on HM,(which I would find suspect that you have become used to these OPs without VOIP to begin with) not as much

 

BW has made the SMs of these OPs dumbed-down enough that you can basically roll your head over your keyboard and probably succeed.

 

A lot of the reasons VOIP is required is because it makes everything 100x easier. Being able to talk to someone in real time, especially on fights where some degree of coordination is needed (OP IX, Kephess, TFB), is a godsend. It's also easier to explain a fight to someone who has never done it by talking to them, versus typing walls of text in Ops chat.

 

But personally if we're pugging 1-2 people who don't happen to have TS3 and know the Ops well, it's easy to just give a few key pieces of info in Ops chat and they will know enough to do the rest.

 

So, for me, if you've never done the Op before, yes VOIP is a must. If you're seasoned in the Op on HM, then I'd be alright just telling you important pieces of info through Ops chat

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It depends. A lot of times people will let it slide if you don't have VOIP if you're very experienced in the content and aren't playing a role where communication is important (some fights it really helps tanks to be able to talk to each other). In most cases they just want people to be able to listen, not necessarily talk.

 

You can do it without coms but in a pug where you don't know what kind of players you're going to get, it helps to make things go more smoothly. And that's what people want out of any run.

 

What is YOUR experience in doing hard mode operations? Do you find VOIP to be helpful at all?

 

As to Bioware's stance on voice communication, I'm pretty sure they are aware that VOIP programs are pretty much standard practice in a lot of multiplayer games. They're free and simple to get and use. Some games have their own in-game VOIP programs but most don't, or have tried and abandoned it because people preferred the third party ones.

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Short answer, I don't know you...yes it is required.

 

I don't care if you can't talk or if you don't want to talk, but you must hear. Now if I know you and know you know the fights, then most fights the answer would be no you don't need it. Still it is better to have it because if someone makes a mistake, voice can be the difference between a wipe and a kill.

 

I will not do a HM operations with someone I don't know without them having voice. I don't expect anyone to talk, but they must be able to take directions over voice.

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It's a requirement for non-trivial hardmodes especially if there are first-timers in the group. You don't need to talk if you're playing a non-critical role though it helps. Just listen. In the Everquest days there was no VOIP and raids were coordinated entirely through chat. Many vanilla WoW guilds did the same. Nowadays it's a basic requirement. If you regularly pug I'd install all 3 voip tools (Mumble, Vent, TS3).
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Every time I see people looking to build a HM Op's groups (S&V or TFB) they always say stuff like.

 

TS3 is required

 

Must have Mumble

 

Need to have Ventrilo

 

Is this really necessary or are people just being elitist's. I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

 

Please tell me this is a joke ?

If not then

yes there are multiple bosses and trash pulls where voice communication and coordination is critical so as not to cause a party wipe.

Example the HM TC ops with this one the time between the big laser beam of death shortens every time he uses it and if you're not listening for the cues that its about to happen it can cause wipes.

Probably one of the more widely known bosses is the Operator 9 boss in TFB HM

So i would say yes its important

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I wouldn't take any pug to a HM Op without voice. Not unless I knew them and knew that they were extremely experienced, and even then I'd hesitate. I probably wouldn't take anyone to a level 55 SM Op either without voice chat. Ops are, more than anything else, a test of coordination and execution. The first part of that is extremely difficult to achieve if you don't have an open line of communication.
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Every time I see people looking to build a HM Op's groups (S&V or TFB) they always say stuff like.

 

TS3 is required

 

Must have Mumble

 

Need to have Ventrilo

 

Is this really necessary or are people just being elitist's. I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

 

It is definitely not them being elitists..... On the contrary, it basically means they are careful and don't want an evening long wipefest due to one or more pugs that cannot coordinate/hear directions.

 

On SM you can get away with a lot, on HM that is not the case, especially with a not so experienced group.

And when a group needs to anticipate on something happening during the fight (dus to an error someone made for instance) typing in chat just takes to long and is often missed by people...

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I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

 

I think you need an update to your imagination unit :)

 

Seriously, LOTRO online (the first mmo I really played) had it built in, and it made any group content infinitely more enjoyable. There are three things, any one of which could be stopping BW from integrating voice: licensing cost (if there is no free version), development cost (since the engine itself obviously didn't have it built-in), and engine limitations. I'm going for the latter -- the swtor engine is so clunky I keep a second computer next to my gaming computer just to do voice and web surfing.

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I can't imagine Bio-Ware would put operations in their game that would require a feature that they don't even include on their game. :confused:

 

Each of these is a quick download and install, and it's free to join someone else's server (though they're paying something to have a server). If you don't have a mic or just don't want to speak, most won't mind if you write that you'll just listen in.

 

There's really no barrier to joining someone's ts3/vent/mumble.

 

(Of course if you get into a serious group regularly doing challenging content, it's best if everyone has a mic.)

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Yes and no.

 

Usually when it is people you don't know, or people new to operations etc etc it is advisable to have one.

As for if you are running it with a guild where everyone knows their stuff, no. We are about to start NiM OPs in our guild and still don't use VOIP.

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Yes and no.

 

Usually when it is people you don't know, or people new to operations etc etc it is advisable to have one.

As for if you are running it with a guild where everyone knows their stuff, no. We are about to start NiM OPs in our guild and still don't use VOIP.

 

Why on Earth not? I applaud your achievements and am actually quite impressed, but why are you intentionally making life more difficult on yourself? Are you some sort of sadist (just kidding).

 

Aside from things like coordinating clicking/killing/moving etc. being able to talk in real time helps with so many other things.

 

If a tank can simply say that they are about to take a big hit and have no defensive cool-downs up, the healers have a little bit of warning and can start getting ready to pre-cast and preparing themselves for the sudden dip in HP. As well as things like debuff stacks wearing off, taunt swapping, the list goes on-and-on.

 

If a healer unfortunately draws add aggro, it's a lot easier for them to yell to get the adds off of them than for someone else to realize it.

 

I'm not calling you crazy, or saying your way is wrong, but just suggesting that it would more than likely make your life easier to have some sort of voice chat

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Yes and no.

 

Usually when it is people you don't know, or people new to operations etc etc it is advisable to have one.

As for if you are running it with a guild where everyone knows their stuff, no. We are about to start NiM OPs in our guild and still don't use VOIP.

 

Good luck with Op9 and kephess. And I mean that seriously, I can't see those two fights as being possible without voice chat.

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Ok, so the general consensus is : You really do need VOIP in order to be effective in HM op's.

 

Let me present a hypothetical and tough question.

 

You are the Guild Master of a decent sized and decently skilled guild and you have some who would like to join and become part of the raiding team but, theirs one problem. He is hearing impaired (basically deaf). What do you do? I just couldn't imagine telling some kid he couldn't join our guild because he has a disability ( I would feel like a total A-Hole). Has anybody had to deal with this kind of situation???

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Ok, so the general consensus is : You really do need VOIP in order to be effective in HM op's.

 

Let me present a hypothetical and tough question.

 

You are the Guild Master of a decent sized and decently skilled guild and you have some who would like to join and become part of the raiding team but, theirs one problem. He is hearing impaired (basically deaf). What do you do? I just couldn't imagine telling some kid he couldn't join our guild because he has a disability ( I would feel like a total A-Hole). Has anybody had to deal with this kind of situation???

 

In my opinion, you give the guy a shot. If it's someone you want in your guild, and he makes his hearing impairment clear from the start, give him every opportunity for it to work. If he's DPS, and a good player, he should be able to pick enough up from Ops text (if you go to great lengths to explain the fights to him). If he's a healer, with the exception of cleanses (which he doesn't necessarily need voice chat to notice), he should be OK. Tanking would probably be the most difficult of the three, but I'm sure with enough practice it could be done, at least HMs.

 

And I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but if he can't hack it because he's hearing impaired, than he's not going to be part of your raid team. It's not different than if he was just a bad. Contrary to what some people believe, I don't believe everybody should be able to do everything (in life, not just in game). The needs of the many sometimes outweigh the needs of the few.

 

The 2 hearing impaired people I know are rather self-deprecating and can joke at the fact that they can't hear worth a damn. I think there's a fair chance that if he saw that it couldn't work, he'd be perfectly OK with it.

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Ok, so the general consensus is : You really do need VOIP in order to be effective in HM op's.

 

Let me present a hypothetical and tough question.

 

You are the Guild Master of a decent sized and decently skilled guild and you have some who would like to join and become part of the raiding team but, theirs one problem. He is hearing impaired (basically deaf). What do you do? I just couldn't imagine telling some kid he couldn't join our guild because he has a disability ( I would feel like a total A-Hole). Has anybody had to deal with this kind of situation???

 

 

In a guild I was in we had a deaf member who raided HM with the rest of us and failed less than others, who were on VoIP. So it isn't needed to be able to listen, but it in general it helps a lot.

A deaf player will have to pay way more attention to the screen itself, text messages etc as they wont be able to get the sound effects for specific effects (e.g. massive laser on TC, or ability procs). And to be honest, I suppose that a deaf player will have a higher visual awareness to compensate for the missing aural sense.

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I've raided in Multiple MMO's over the years ranging from 72 man raids to 8 man raids for the past 14 years. NO, VOIP is not needed for raids. Situational awareness and knowing your roll and character are more important.

 

That being said, VOIP does make raiding easier. It is more of a security blanket for raiders and raid leaders. But honestly, with everything telegraphed in BIG RED LETTERS and ground targets everywhere these days you would need to be in a coma to miss stuff.

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That being said, VOIP does make raiding easier. It is more of a security blanket for raiders and raid leaders. But honestly, with everything telegraphed in BIG RED LETTERS and ground targets everywhere these days you would need to be in a coma to miss stuff.

 

Voice chat isn't really about calling out telegraphs and red circles, though. It's used for co-ordination. It's so everyone is on the same page when it comes to the strategy, and so that it can be adjusted on the fly if necessary.

 

For the OP, as others have said, yes, you need to have these programs installed and be willing to run them in order to participate in most HM ops (barring maybe EV and KP). They may not strictly be necessary, but when I'm raid leading I'm not all that inclined to spend ten minutes typing out the Operator 9 strategy every time I run, or dealing with unnecessary wipes just because someone couldn't be bothered installing a free program.

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But honestly, with everything telegraphed in BIG RED LETTERS and ground targets everywhere these days you would need to be in a coma to miss stuff.
When exactly does those big red letters tell you to click on the pillar in second phase of kephess on HM/NiM Kephess? When does those big red letter tell you the the percentage of the tentacles in phase 1 of TfB in H/NiM TfB, I can go on Stormcaller, Toth..... Yeah tank and spank you are correct, you could go though SM/HM/NiM EV, without voice, you can do SM TfB or S&V without voice. Hell in my normal group we could do HM TfB or TfB without voice, we have done it that often with voice as a group, but for someone with inexperience or a group unfamiliar with each other, voice is a very useful tool, even for a group that has played together and know the instances, it just makes it easier. and allows for some mistakes.
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When exactly does those big red letters tell you to click on the pillar in second phase of kephess on HM/NiM Kephess? When does those big red letter tell you the the percentage of the tentacles in phase 1 of TfB in H/NiM TfB, I can go on Stormcaller, Toth..... Yeah tank and spank you are correct, you could go though SM/HM/NiM EV, without voice, you can do SM TfB or S&V without voice. Hell in my normal group we could do HM TfB or TfB without voice, we have done it that often with voice as a group, but for someone with inexperience or a group unfamiliar with each other, voice is a very useful tool, even for a group that has played together and know the instances, it just makes it easier. and allows for some mistakes.

 

You don't need a callout to click.

 

 

1st: after second set goes out 6/8 out of group will havve it.

2nd: After jump and set goes out

3rd: Same as first.

 

 

 

TFB, only important are 25% anomalies or 4/8/12 ones before pushing phase.

 

Op9 is important % on cores.

 

 

You can raid without communication but it helps agree 100%.

 

Above is 8/8 guild run

 

pug runs require a leader who explains stuff.

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Why on Earth not? I applaud your achievements and am actually quite impressed, but why are you intentionally making life more difficult on yourself? Are you some sort of sadist (just kidding).

 

Aside from things like coordinating clicking/killing/moving etc. being able to talk in real time helps with so many other things.

 

If a tank can simply say that they are about to take a big hit and have no defensive cool-downs up, the healers have a little bit of warning and can start getting ready to pre-cast and preparing themselves for the sudden dip in HP. As well as things like debuff stacks wearing off, taunt swapping, the list goes on-and-on.

 

If a healer unfortunately draws add aggro, it's a lot easier for them to yell to get the adds off of them than for someone else to realize it.

 

I'm not calling you crazy, or saying your way is wrong, but just suggesting that it would more than likely make your life easier to have some sort of voice chat

 

Honestly ? I have no idea!

This was a thing before I joined the guild (almost a year ago), and it has continued with us to this day. Several of us tried to suggest using it on a small scale (between tanks and healers at least) but there was a heavy resistance to it so we dropped it. But I do agree with you that it can make life easy (very easy). However, I think it has thought us to pay a lot of attention to our surroundings in a fight. For example even when I am a DPS, I always have someone else (depending on the fight) on focus target to pay attention to them, I am always zoomed out so I can see everything around my character, paying attention to the health bar etc etc.

But we do have a TS3 server, and only 3 of us actually use it (including me). But we use it more or less for goofing off late at night, while we PvP etc/etc.

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