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Signs that you're good or bad at your role


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key binding and clicking has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad you are. this is a fallacy learned from those who have played wow with its multitude of stupid players which nothing would help anyways. with any gcd it is all pointless as to any reaction time PERCIEVED to be saved through key binding. a properly set up hot bar is far better than looking down at the keyboard for which key to hit.

 

there is no way until you play with someone to tell if they are good or bad. even then it is a matter of opinion with some people. even gear choice isn't always a good indication as what they have now might not be perfect but was better than what they had previously.

 

what my guild looks for in players for prospective guild members are those that listen and are taught able. if not then we deem them as BAD PLAYERS.

 

^ Clicker

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From a healer perspective

 

DPS that chain pull or face pull during a tough phase.

deal with the fight at hand before picking a new one.

 

im going to have to disagree with you on click versus keybind though. I'm a decent healer, not the best, not the worst

 

the best healer i know is a clicker though.

 

I was shocked but hey who cares as long as we get through.

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Not using keybinds is like not using voice chat. Successful raiding is almost certainly possible without either but both make your time significantly easier. Also someone said its easier to click than to look down and pick the right key, but one of the hallmarks of smart key binding is putting your binds where they are easy to reach. Also if you can type without hunt and peck, then you can use keybinds without looking down.

 

show me someone who can type with out any mistakes and ill show you a good key bind player. the vast majority of miss hit abilities are from key binders.

 

like i have stated the one button key binder wow raid monkey play style doesnt work with more difficult mmos some of us came from. this game isn't hard nor will key binding or clicking ever make a difference in playing it. all it is is a fallacy learned from playing wow with its multitudes of stupid/ poor players.

 

there are many problems with the ui in this game but the argument of clickers vs key binders is mute especially when some of us came from other mmos with much more difficult end game content than those of you from wow and cleared all of such by using either means. it really doesnt matter. i have stayed on top of parses using both means and it makes no difference which method is used.

 

neither make a good or bad player. what makes a bad player is their inability to want listen, learn and be taught. most of the issues the op brought up can be corrected through this. however arrogance has a lot to do with not wanting to which i see a lot from pvpers, ex wow players and those on these forums.

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however arrogance has a lot to do with not wanting to which i see a lot from pvpers, ex wow players and those on these forums.

It's bemusing, because your post absolutely reeks of arrogance, more than anyone else in this thread.

 

Keybinding core abilities is faster than clicking, regardless of whether it's "necessary" or not.

Edited by Aurojiin
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Healer and clicker, I tried the other way, but I am just better as a clicker. Now on dps, I do use key binds, but healing to me is easier and faster as a clicker.

The only major pet peeve that marks a bad player is during or after a wipe and some idiot asks "what happened?" Pay attention to what's going on around you, the answer to that question is usually pretty obvious.
Wow I am a bad player then… We don’t wipe too often, but if someone in the group dies I do ask what happen, since it was my responsibility to keep them alive. I want to know if I missed something that will make me a better healer the next time through. If I wasn’t at fault then at least the person explaining it is talking to me and hopefully the person that made the mistake is listening/reading and will correct that error next time. I have seen people go from around 100% health to zero, so I want to know what I can do to make myself better prepared to handle that kind of damage. If wanting to always get better and not having the luxury of running around the instance sightseeing make me a bad player, then I am the worse. I pay attention to where I am standing and make sure I am not in AoEs, but I can’t see what happening to the entire group every moment and still be in range of everyone and watching health bars too.

 

Keybinding core abilities is faster than clicking, regardless of whether it's "necessary" or not.
Caught me, I do use keybind on a few abilities with my healer. Edited by mikebevo
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I want to know if I missed something that will make me a better healer the next time through. If I wasn’t at fault then at least the person explaining it is talking to me and hopefully the person that made the mistake is listening/reading and will correct that error next time. I have seen people go from around 100% health to zero, so I want to know what I can do to make myself better prepared to handle that kind of damage.

 

For starters if someone goes from 100% to 0% it means they screwed up, not you.

 

That being said, it's not about sightseeing (I pride myself on my raidwide situational awareness, I keep an eye on everything around me while tanking, constantly moving my camera while hitting my keys and binds) so much as once you know the mechanics, someone dying or a wipe can easily be discerned.

 

I.E. During this phase if you don't do X you die, someone dies during that phase, obviously they didn't do X and died. I can forgive a person if they never did it before, but after one wipe you shouldn't be making the same mistakes and should be able to recognize why someone dies during a specific phase near instantly.

Edited by Khayleth
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This whole hating on clickers thing is absurd. I've chatted about this to guildies. Most of us use a combination of keybinds and clicks. Having too many things bound is as problematic as doing absolutely everything with the mouse.

 

That said, the first thing I do on a new toon is unbind keyboard turning and map A and D to strafe instead. Q and E become my interrupt and CC breaker, when i get them.

 

In the end, if someone's getting the job done, where's the problem?

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That being said, it's not about sightseeing (I pride myself on my raidwide situational awareness, I keep an eye on everything around me while tanking, constantly moving my camera while hitting my keys and binds) so much as once you know the mechanics, someone dying or a wipe can easily be discerned.
no clue about tanks, don't play one. However as a dps I can pretty much tell you what everyone is doing in the fight. However as a healer my awareness ends at everyones health bars and making sure I stay out of AoEs. I will park myself near something CC'ed so I can yell out if it breaks, but my job is keeping people on their feet.

 

It is one of the reasons I like to DPS (and one day tank these fights too), to completely understand these fights I have found dps has helped my role as a healer and vise versa. I know healing has made my mDPS better and is the reason my guild trust me on a alt mDPS on fights like NIM KP on Jarg. I know how to help out the healers by getting out of AoEs, using defensive cooldowns and interupts.

 

Still as a healer I am going to ask what happened when someone dies even when I know it was because they were over stacked or standing in spit. It is a nicer way of reinterating the problem than saying get out of the spit stupid. :p If that makes me a bad healer, then don't team up with me or give me the boot. ;)

Edited by mikebevo
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I'm not sure I totally agree with everything you mentioned about the Tank spec.

 

First off, Soa is a bad example to determine if someone is a bad tank. The camera angle in game isnt that great for trying to pick up the pillars that appear during the fight, so it can be difficult for a Tank to maneuver Soa into position under the spinning pillar.

 

I also disagree on the Holding Aggro piece. Some tanks, and Guardian Tanks in particular, from time to time have difficulty holding Aggro on Mobs. Not really sure why this is, cause most other Tank specs have little to no trouble holding them. I didn't believe this until my Guardian had similar issues. Now I just drive my Threat up and that usually takes care of that problem.

 

This of course leads in to holding Aggro on Bosses, which Guardians also have issues with. The use of Taunt and Challenging Call are almost necessary to acquire or maintain Aggro for most of the fight. With Guardians, the DPS might want to be careful what they use during the fight because raising their Threat level can pull the Mobs and/or Boss off of the Guardian Tank, and if that Tank is waiting for Cooldown on Taunt or Challenging Call, that DPS could be in BIG trouble.

 

I can't speak to experience on other Tanks, but the Guardian is a unique specimen.

 

Agree about the dang camera with Soa. Grrrr.

 

Guardians just don't have much AoE threat abilities. We have our aoe taunt, force sweep, and cone attack, all of which generate extra threat, and Guardian Slash, which not many people take and only does aoe situationally. I feel like I do a pretty good job with the tools I have - I can generally hold a decent pack of mobs. But some players think if a single strong is not attacking the tank or goes for the healer, it's the tank's fault. Well, that guy was probably standing off to the side a little and should have been cc'ed or burned by dps as a priority target.

 

Guardians should have absolutely no problem holding boss aggro. There is no excuse here. If your group is competent and giving you 3 seconds to establish threat, and using their aggro dump after their initial burst, you should not lose threat. If you are outgeared by dps, you may lose it once, and only once, at the beginning. After you taunt back, it shouldn't happen again.

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#1 sign that you are bad: you are more useful to the group dead than alive.

 

The case that established this level of bad was a tank on SM Kephess the Undying, who managed to run through the raid, the middle of the raid, with the lightning debuff every single time. Not just once, but every time. And if he was chosen for Kephess's cone attack, he'd manage to share the damage across as wide a swath as possible. It was easier to heal the group when he was dead because he was no longer getting the DPS hurt.

 

Other examples include the assassin DPS who kept knocking the mobs out of the range of the orbital strike that a sniper had put down. Punting mobs out of a hard-hitting AoE with a weak knockback gets people killed.

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I don't use my Aggro-drop, I guess that makes me a bad DPS. :rak_03:

 

(Sarcasm, due to me being Vanguard DPS.)

Not sure if I follow the sarcasm. When I raid with my Commando dps, if I fail to use my aggro dump, I will sometimes pull off the tank. If I use my aggro dump regularly, this doesn't happen.

 

Do you not do enough dps to pull off of the tank? Do you wait longer than 5 seconds after the tank to begin a fight? Do you not use adrenals during burst phases?

 

The idea behind using your aggro dump is that it allows you to be less careful about bursting your dps as high as you possibly can without fear of out-threating the tank. This is a Good Thing

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Thanks for the comments all. I was admittedly being provocative when I said that not key binding makes you a bad player. Being a clicker doesn't necessarily make you a bad player, per se, but ceteris paribus, a key binder is better than a clicker.

 

Sydexlic has eloquently demonstrated why key binding is the superior method of game play. I will add one additional argument.

 

1: Situational awareness is absolutely crucial for effective PvE gameplay. Raid bosses will have multiple mechanics occurring simultaneously during a fight. A player who is not sufficiently situationally aware will be a liability to the group.

 

2: Frequent camera rotation and repositioning is required in order to situationally aware.

 

3: Using the mouse to move the camera is faster and far more effective than using the keyboard..

 

4: It is not feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and click on the quickbar simultaneously.

 

5: It is feasible to use the mouse to rotate the camera and use the key bound quickbar simultaneously.

 

6: A player who can actively reposition the camera to maintain situational awareness while simultaneously attending to their role-specific duties will be more effective than a player who is not able to do both.

 

7: Therefore, ceteris paribus, a key binder is a more effective player than a clicker.

 

#4 might be false, but I am skeptical.

 

1 - nothing to do with clicking or not

 

2 - nothing to do with clicking or not

 

3 - yes

 

4 - is not true

 

5 - not a keybinder only ability

 

6 - nothing to do with clicking or not

 

7 - using latin doesnt change the fact that people are not equal or the same ergo your points are moot unless you are clearly stipulating that binders are superior simply by virtue of being a binder, or to put it in more personal terms do you claim to be a better player than I am? To clarify, I would never claim to be a good player because the concept seems asinine. however I have cleared every operation in the game on a vengeance juggernaut with the exception of NM EC and I dont believe anyone has carried me.

 

As I stated earlier, it seems to me, given the smaller population of clickers, that a much higher percentage of sucky players would be binders.

 

Was funny, today on mumble someone I have played with for a long asked me if I was a clicker as he could hear me clicking while talking during a boss fight.

Edited by Slurmez
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4 - is not true

Is very true. If you are holding down one of the mouse buttons to rotate your character or the camera, the cursor cannot be used to interact with other interface elements.

 

I can't believe this "argument" is still dragging on. Clicking abilities is like typing with oven mitts. Can you do it? Sure. Will any amount of success on the part of an individual ever change the fact that it's incredibly inefficient? Nope.

 

That being said, yes, the OP is wrong insofar as clicking doesn't automatically mean you're bad at your role.

Edited by Aurojiin
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i am a hybrid keybinder/clicker. I do a little of both. I also disagree with the whole "clicking makes you bad" thing. I also disagree with the examples given in OP on good tanking skills. There are a few instances I can think of that are much more challenging tank pulls that test tank skills. One good example is the first mob encounter in the heroic Chasing the Shadow (republic/corellia/black hole) assuming no one can CC, a good tank can control that situation very well. Another very good example of tank testing skills is the first mob in Maelstrom Prison. Again, assuming no one can cc, that is another excellent test of tank skills here, where the mobs are spread out and you get a bonus 3 regulars that pop out the door to the right. Ive seen well geared players wipe/die to this first pull, due to the way its setup.
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there is only one rule i follow:

 

if tank dies = healers fault

 

if healer dies = tanks fault

 

if DPS die = there own fault.

 

o and for the people thinking clicking is better than keybinding....U ****** SERIOUS?!? lmao, get a brain. most amusing thing i heard all morning.

Edited by snowmon
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there is only one rule i follow:

 

if tank dies = healers fault

 

if healer dies = tanks fault

 

if DPS die = there own fault.

 

o and for the people thinking clicking is better than keybinding....U ****** SERIOUS?!? lmao, get a brain. most amusing thing i heard all morning.

 

O you simple, simple man...

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there is only one rule i follow:

 

if tank dies = healers fault

 

if healer dies = tanks fault

 

if DPS die = there own fault.

 

o and for the people thinking clicking is better than keybinding....U ****** SERIOUS?!? lmao, get a brain. most amusing thing i heard all morning.

 

Spoken like a true imperial player.

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My Version from a healers perspective:

 

You're a bad Tank:

 

If you don't make sure to at least Tap every mob on each pull so that a healer doesn't pull aggro trying to do their job.

 

If you aren't vocal with the people you're playing with. (Tank is generally a leadership role so if you don't want to be vocal in a raid then don't bother doing it)

 

If you don't take your time to look at your stats and take a bit of time to do research on how to properly itemize your advanced class.

 

 

You're a bad DPS:

 

If you don't parse your numbers. Parsing numbers of course lets you know if you're doing it right or wrong!

(A dps who doesn't look at their numbers is obviously looking to be carried through content which is why guilds are having trouble with the easy content in this game. Carrying dead weight halts progression)

 

If you don't watch aggro on certain fights.

(Of course this is dependant on the situation. But in a situation when you know your tank doesn't suck and you rip aggro and die at the beginning of the fight from blowing all your crap early then you fail)

 

Don't take the time to itemize your gear.

(I guess this is repetitive for every role, if you Itemize well then you're being considerate to the people you're doing content with by making sure you're performing at your best. Of course Situational awareness is a key component for all roles as well)

 

 

You're a bad Healer:

 

If anyone in your raid dies from unavoidable damage. (aka damage that is always gonna happen)

(It won't always be your fault because in an operation there are multiple healers but if someone you're supposed to heal dies you fail at your role. But if it is new content for you and you're just learning then its fine just fix it next attempt!)

 

Don't know how to manage your resource. (Aka Energy, Heat/Ammo, or Force)

(Healing well is not only about getting heals out but making sure you can keep them coming. In an operation if you fail to manage your energy then you will cause a domino effect that will cause the other healers to tap themselves out which screws everybody over.

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Is very true. If you are holding down one of the mouse buttons to rotate your character or the camera, the cursor cannot be used to interact with other interface elements.

 

I can't believe this "argument" is still dragging on. Clicking abilities is like typing with oven mitts. Can you do it? Sure. Will any amount of success on the part of an individual ever change the fact that it's incredibly inefficient? Nope.

 

That being said, yes, the OP is wrong insofar as clicking doesn't automatically mean you're bad at your role.

 

Is not true, it takes less time to right click and camera rotate than the GCD and the mouse doesnt move far from where it began due to set sensitivity. Im not saying I may or may not miss a fraction of a second here and there but my parsed DPS numbers (inside operations not on stationary dummies) are above average so Im not slacking there and I dont die first on my Vengeance Juggernaut which is a melee class so is especially dependent on positioning.

 

Also at no point have I claimed that clicking is superior, I dont know where you are getting that slant from, my point seems to be that there is rather a downer on a particular play style, that is often a necessity of physical limitations not a choice. For ME and others binding would be monumentally inefficient and indeed make the game unplayable so wheres your point? The mere concept of lambasting someone on play style over effectiveness is quite cretinous given a bad player is a bad player regardless of clicking or binding.

 

FYI I have A and D set as side strafe

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o and for the people thinking clicking is better than keybinding....U ****** SERIOUS?!? lmao, get a brain. most amusing thing i heard all morning.

 

If you had reading comprehension skills I think you would find NO ONE has made that claim in this entire thread, only that clicking is not the gigantic handicap certain people make it out to be.

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