what are the caps in those?

i dont have any idea so before starting adding augments in each piece of the gear i want to know

or if there is an official page that show them be my guest and post it here

also could be a sticky for all of tank classes too

Happy to help:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/attachment.php?aid=295

100% absorption?

95% shield?

95% defense?

doesnt seem correct IMO

percent of cap, like if 60% is cap, 90% of 60 is 54, not 90%.

gah but still need to know the cap

i want to know if the number that i see in shield chance / shield absorption / defense chance / damage reduction in my char is the cap

dont care for more info or maths

There are no caps.

Having a higher rating in stat X means that stat X is worth slightly less when you add another point to it.

This is a gradual process.

If you are wondering how this applies to you then you just need to balance your stats so that you dont have one rating drasticly higher then the others.

There are no caps.

I've never understood how people could be so confident in their knowledge and yet be so obviously wrong.

Defense caps at 30%

Shield and absorb cap at 50%

Please note that this is solely from rating, and does not include extra bonuses from things like your skill tree.

Details here:

http://www.swtorstrategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/iqlov4.jpg

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-364.html

I've never understood how people could be so confident in their knowledge and yet be so obviously wrong.

Defense caps at 30%

Shield and absorb cap at 50%

Please note that this is solely from rating, and does not include extra bonuses from things like your skill tree.

While it's true that 30%, 50%, 50% are, in fact, caps on how much you can gain from the respective ratings, the fact is that you can't get very close to them with current levels of gear. I stack as much D/S/A as possible on my Vanguard, and I'm only at about 8% def, 31% shield, 37% absorb from ratings. Meanwhile, if you just flat out state 30%/50%/50% are the caps, people are going to miss the "from rating" part of your comment, and proceed to stack waaaaaay too much defense rating (or worse, start putting points into non-defensive stats).

Theoretically, you can add enough Absorb, Shield Rating, and Defense to get 100% everything. The problem is that the numbers you need to get that is impossible with the current gear tier. It's better to aim for a certain number rather than attempt to reach the hard cap.

Absorb added should be at least: +30%

Shield Chance added should be at least: +18%

Defense added should be at least: +10%

Prioritize in the order of Absorb, Shield, and Defense, too. This is really only possible with Campaign tier gear. Also, does not require augments.

Theoretically, you can add enough Absorb, Shield Rating, and Defense to get 100% everything.

False. Absorb Rating, Shield Rating, and Defense Rating are all on logarithmic curves. With infinite rating in each, the contribution from rating will be 30% defense, 50% shield, 50% absorb, which will not get you to 100% of anything for any gear+talent build.

Prioritize in the order of Absorb, Shield, and Defense, too. This is really only possible with Campaign tier gear. Also, does not require augments.

Stat prioritization depends on class. I don't think any class wants that particular order though. My (admittedly incomplete) understanding is that the stat priorities for the three tanks are

Vanguard: Shield > Absorb > Defense

Shadow: Absorb > Defense > Shield

Guardian: Defense > Shield > Absorb

(Also, I highly recommend putting all augments into D/S/A, but that is a matter of opinion).

also make sure you understand how they add and that shield doesnt work on crits. consider the following:

25% defense chance(after factoring in acc) 50% shield chance against say a 20% crit chance would mean:

25% of white damage* attacks gets dodged

15% of white damage attacks crit (20% of 75%)

37.5% of white damage attacks don't crit and get shielded (50% of 75%)

22.5% of white damage attacks don't crit but are not shielded.

*most pve damage is white damage while much of the pvp damage is yellow which bypasses all defense/shield.

so while at first glance you may expect 75% of attacks to be shielded or dodged actually only 62.5% are and of course shield only partially blocks the damage and only on the weaker hitting non-crits, also if crit and shield were to add to over 100% the crit over rides and effectively caps the shield chance.

Ah yeah, here's where I messed up:

Hard caps:

Defense Chance :: Defense adds +30% at the most. Cap without talent buffs is 35%.

Shield Chance :: Shield Rating adds +50% at the most. Cap without talent buffs is 70%.

Shield Absorbtion :: Absorb adds +50% at the most. Cap without talent buffs is 70%.

Depending on your class and talents, your exact +X% need for which secondary stat changes. Also, procs for abilities and talents are different for each of the tanking classes.

Also, the points needed to get to each cap from the order of least to greatest:

Defense > Shield Chance > Shield Absorbtion

Ratio of D/S/A points to which skill they enhance:

55/32/18

In other words, Defense requires a lot of points to reach it cap whereas Absorb requires a lot fewer. For a baseline +350 for each (quite possible to get with Campaign level gear):

Defense :: +10.5%

Shield Chance :: +17.9%

Absorb :: +27.2%

That's partly why I suggest going the Absorb > Shield > Defense route going by +X% no matter the class. If you aim for getting to near +30% Defense Chance, or even just 30% Defense Chance, you'll never get there with Campaign gear and augments.

Also:

For Juggernauts, the only proc they get that requires Defense Chance exclusively is Retaliation. However, Juggernaut tanks get +6% Defense Chance.

For Powertechs, Shielding an attack vents 8 heat and finishes the cooldown of Rocket Punch. However, Powertech tanks get +8% Shield Chance.

For Assassins, their Force regeneration procs off of all defensive abilities.

also make sure you understand how they add and that shield doesnt work on crits. consider the following:

 

25% defense chance(after factoring in acc) 50% shield chance against say a 20% crit chance would mean:

 

25% of white damage* attacks gets dodged

15% of white damage attacks crit (20% of 75%)

37.5% of white damage attacks don't crit and get shielded (50% of 75%)

22.5% of white damage attacks don't crit but are not shielded.

 

*most pve damage is white damage while much of the pvp damage is yellow which bypasses all defense/shield.

 

so while at first glance you may expect 75% of attacks to be shielded or dodged actually only 62.5% are and of course shield only partially blocks the damage and only on the weaker hitting non-crits, also if crit and shield were to add to over 100% the crit over rides and effectively caps the shield chance.

That's not how the two-roll system works. Dodge and crit are both on the same roll - for your example, 25% of attacks are dodged, and 20% are crits (not 20% of 75%).

edit: some of my comment here is wrong. See KeyboardNinja's post, further down.

While it's true that 30%, 50%, 50% are, in fact, caps on how much you can gain from the respective ratings, the fact is that you can't get very close to them with current levels of gear. I stack as much D/S/A as possible on my Vanguard, and I'm only at about 8% def, 31% shield, 37% absorb from ratings. Meanwhile, if you just flat out state 30%/50%/50% are the caps, people are going to miss the "from rating" part of your comment, and proceed to stack waaaaaay too much defense rating (or worse, start putting points into non-defensive stats).

Well, if they aren't going to read my post, then there's no point worrying about what they do, because they are obviously beyond hope anyway.

Absorb Rating, Shield Rating, and Defense Rating are all on logarithmic curves.

They're exponential curves, actually. A logarithmic curve wouldn't have a cap.

Time to clear up some errors…

First off, most of what CitizenFry said is correct, so go off of that.

They're exponential curves, actually. A logarithmic curve wouldn't have a cap.

An exponential curve would not have a cap. In either case, it's two words for the same thing. Logarithms are the mathematical duals of exponents. The correct term is "logarithmic curve, asymptotic to x" (where x is the "cap")

There are no caps on stats in SWTOR (except armor). You can continue stacking defense infinitely and you will continue to receive more value. However, you will NEVER get to 100% defense. You will just get less and less value from each additional point. Thus, the ideal itemization is always largely balanced between the ratings.

• The value from defense rating is asymptotic to 30%
  
• The value from absorb rating is asymptotic to 50%
  
• The value from shield rating is asymptotic to 30%
  

Regarding the two-roll system, crit and dodge are on two separate rolls. Dodge is rolled first (against accuracy), *then* crit is rolled (against shield).

Finally, the stat priority for tanks varies a lot based on exactly how much you have of each. Generally speaking, the following holds:

• Guardians: DEFENSE >> shield > absorb
  
• Shadows: absorb (after two-piece bonus) > defense > shield
  
• Vanguards: absorb > shield > defense
  

Things change around quite a bit as you get to the higher stat budgets. The value of stats on my shadow is almost dead-even (to within 4 thousandths of a percent). Vanguards also have an interesting switcheroo at higher stat levels, where shield exceeds the value of absorb. Guardians need defense until like 700 points, so it's nuts.

An exponential curve would not have a cap. In either case, it's two words for the same thing. Logarithms are the mathematical duals of exponents. The correct term is "logarithmic curve, asymptotic to x" (where x is the "cap")

It's not the same thing, they are inverses. Exponential functions have horizontal asymptotes, but logarithms have vertical asymptotes. Logarithmic functions have no inherent bounds on their range. If you look at the formula, it is very clearly an exponential function. I wouldn't be very good at my job as a calculus tutor if I didn't know the difference. Perhaps you are confusing exponential decay with exponential growth?

It's not the same thing, they are inverses. Exponential functions have horizontal asymptotes, but logarithms have vertical asymptotes. Logarithmic functions have no inherent bounds on their range. If you look at the formula, it is very clearly an exponential function. I wouldn't be very good at my job as a calculus tutor if I didn't know the difference. Perhaps you are confusing exponential decay with exponential growth?

I work as a mathematician, so I'm pretty confident in my terminology here. :-) Neither exponential nor logarithmic functions have asymptotes (well, not upper-bounding asymptotes). Base form of each:

• Exponential: f(x) = e^x
  
• Logarithmic: f(x) = ln x
  

Practically speaking, the terms are used interchangably, since they both describe a particular *rate of change* in the curve itself, which is what is interesting. The asymptote attribute needs to be specified, and cannot simply be assumed.

Technically, the stat values in TOR are on an inverted exponential decay. The general form is essentially:

f(x) = a - (1 - (1 - (0.01 / (a / 100))) ^ ((x / (50 * b))

Thus, the function exponentially decays toward a.

Technically, the stat values in TOR are on an inverted exponential decay. The general form is essentially:

 

f(x) = a - (1 - (1 - (0.01 / (a / 100))) ^ ((x / (50 * b))

 

Thus, the function exponentially decays toward a.

That's what I've been saying the whole time. If you acknowledge that it's an exponential function, why are you acting like I'm wrong?

That's what I've been saying the whole time. If you acknowledge that it's an exponential function, why are you acting like I'm wrong?

Terminology thing. I think we're just arguing about pointless semantics. Neither of us are wrong. :-)

Terminology thing. I think we're just arguing about pointless semantics. Neither of us are wrong. :-)

I still don't understand why anyone would call this function logarithmic, but at least we're on the same page now.

Because if you say that a value decays upwards, people look at you funny.

So, so true.

Seriously guys, why does EVERY SINGLE THREAD about stat caps end up like a quantum physicists convention ?

Don't get me wrong, we appreciate your efforts, but I'm pretty sure all the OP dude wanted was some numbers he could aim for min/maxing correctly his defensive stats, plain and simple. He didn't need to launch a rocket to mars. If he was a math head like you, he would have figured the calculations by himself I don't think I can be called dumb, but your math formulas give me headaches, and I can't wrap my mind around your graphic charts.

So I'm gonna reformulate the OP question (dude, feel free to correct me if I misinterpretated you) :

What are, in layman's terms, the most efficient stat distribution, DR wise. Either in percentages or ratings, FOR EACH CLASS (as we all have our own defensive mechanics) ?

Again, thanks guys for your hard work.

What are, in layman's terms, the most efficient stat distribution, DR wise. Either in percentages or ratings, FOR EACH CLASS (as we all have our own defensive mechanics) ?

 

Again, thanks guys for your hard work.

In layman's terms: it varies (a LOT). The math behind the stats in TOR pushes stat distribution in very interesting directions, varying wildly as your stat budget goes up. If you pop your current stats in here, we can tell you your stat priority RIGHT NOW, but that's advice which is tailored to your specific situation. It's going to be different as you get more stat points to play with.

CitizenFry gave the rough, general stat priority for each class, but that's only going to be loosely accurate. We absolutely cannot give you a "stack x until y%" sort of advice, because it would be almost certainly wrong. Anyone who *claims* to be able to give you this advice is either deliberately over-simplifying or incredibly ignorant.

What are, in layman's terms, the most efficient stat distribution, DR wise. Either in percentages or ratings, FOR EACH CLASS (as we all have our own defensive mechanics) ?

IMO, laymen should just worry about getting to a higher tier of gear (and replacing all that Accuracy/Surge on Rakata pieces. Seriously, what's up with that.) Once you get to where most of your gear is grade 26, THEN start worrying about the exact distribution of your defensive stats. Just due to the way the defensive stats are distributed among gear, it's hard to overcommit too badly to any one stat.

If you pop your current stats in here, we can tell you your stat priority RIGHT NOW

I'm playing a shadow currently almost full campaign/BH (only missing the saber hilt and one 26 armoring for my bracers), with augments in each slot of course. My stats are, with full buffs and prototype stim :

Endurance : 2261

Willpower : 1538

Accuracy : 96.70% (171 rating)

Health : 25563

Armor : 6141 ( :'( booohooooo neeeeerf)

Damage reduction : 40.25% (please don't hit me !)

Defense 28.34% (430)

Shield : 40.54% (419) without kinetic ward

Absorb : 56.32% (463)

And playing with shield amplification campaign relic and the shield boost clickable one (don't know the english name, shrouded crusader or sumthin')

So any advice for min/maxing this would be, by me, appreciated

EDIT : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3d93cbd9-932d-42f6-9472-c8774d9e0b91 for detailed view