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Flashpoint Finder - Bad for Game?


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So I have always been in the boat with the people saying "dungeon finder" destroys community and whatnot but now that I have experienced this, I think the game could use it if done right. Currently Warzones are queue up and play...so why couldn't flashpoints work the same way?

 

I'm NOT talking about CROSS SERVER Dungeon Finder, it would still be the same server only, so it wouldn't affect your community, people that abuse it would be known still and you can still kick people or w/e you would normally be able to do...maybe with a voting system of some sort.

 

After being 50 for a few weeks now I am just tired of dealing with the mess that is the current system. I stand in Fleet spamming, 30 minutes later...finally get a group, next 10-15 minutes is waiting for everyone to get to the flashpoint...

 

"Lets do the False Emperor", "okay, we have to goto Ilum for that"

 

From Fleet I have to goto my Elevator - Pause while Load

Go into my Ship - Zoning into new instance

Run up to the console and click it

find the sector after the animation, find the planet, click travel - another pause while it loads

Run back out of my ship - zoning into new instance

In spaceport where I can't even mount, run to shuttle - pause while load

mount up head to elevator - wait

run up to instance, wait for every other member to get there and take mission.

 

And then....1 person says, "Uhh, says i'm not eligible?"...."Did you do the quest chain here?"...."no...not yet".... #$%&!

 

So back now more time wasted finding someone else....find a replacement...get half way into it and healer has to go...you do a /who 50 fleet and ask everyone that could possibly be a healer if they are willing to come. You find someone, they either run into the same scenario as above, or they are unable to grab the mission or accept the shared mission. They drop group to grab mission, get reinvited, still cant zone in, have to click "reset" on mission...finally they can zone.

 

It is a very frustrating process and now i'm all for a warzone like queue system for MY server. I understand some of my examples above may be extreme but trust me when I say I have experienced all of them.

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So I have always been in the boat with the people saying "dungeon finder" destroys community and whatnot but now that I have experienced this, I think the game could use it if done right. Currently Warzones are queue up and play...so why couldn't flashpoints work the same way?

 

Cross-server is a must in the LFG. What if you don't play during your server peak time? What if you play on a low-pop server? Should you be penalized for that? Should everyone be force to flock high-pop servers if they want to enjoy a few dungeons whenever they feel like?

 

There is only one community, it's the SWTOR one. Please, help stop spreading the myth of server communities. It's not real.

 

Servers are currently fenced and that goes totally against forming communities, not towards it.

 

Look at the 50 bracket for PVP. It takes over 30m to join a single match if you are not playing during peak time of you servers.

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Cross-server is a must in the LFG. What if you don't play during your server peak time? What if you play on a low-pop server? Should you be penalized for that? Should everyone be force to flock high-pop servers if they want to enjoy a few dungeons whenever they feel like?

 

There is only one community, it's the SWTOR one. Please, help stop spreading the myth of server communities. It's not real.

 

Servers are currently fenced and that goes totally against forming communities, not towards it.

 

Look at the 50 bracket for PVP. It takes over 30m to join a single match if you are not playing during peak time of you servers.

 

The 50s queue time will get better once the game ages and more people hit 50, but I would have to completely disagree with you on the community aspect. In this game, I have made a lot of friends, I know just about everyone on the server that is any good, I have a huge friends list...people that are idiots and AFKers are black listed on the server...there are already quite a few known to the majority of the server, It's nice.

 

On Wow before cross realm it was the same way...you got to know other people from your server, I logged in and got whispers from people all the time asking me to join them because I had a rep on the server as being one of the best healers. All of that is completely lost in a cross realm "dungeon finder" once it came along I hardly made any new friends...dungeons became "business", most people aren't very social at all...they just want to get their daily/reward and be done with it and kick you or leave themselves if it doesn't go exactly how they expect it. And in the case of the odd cool person that would talk back and joke around in group...odds were I would never run into that person again once the dungeon ended. I can't /friend them...nothing. So yes I would have to disagree with you.

 

When it comes to off peak hours, I don't understand people that play on servers where their main play time isn't in line with the servers peak hours. I have a friend from Australia that played on East Coast Servers because he worked graveyard shifts and so the server peak time was in line with the east coast. If you live on the east coast try a west coast server...

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Cross-realm dungeon finding killed wow for me. You've lost all accountability to be any kind of quality player or quality human being. Ninjaing was rampant at lower levels and ***-hatery was prevalent in the upper levels. People would quit group after 1 death, not even a wipe. Expectations were too high and everyone became a prima-donna. Especially the tanks.

 

I would like to see a dungeon finding tool but please PLEASE keep it on just the realm. Hell, I'd rather see cross faction dungeon finding before I'd see cross-realm.

Edited by Gydlock
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i agree with Gydlock, a LFD will cripple the game. people will just sit in the fleet waiting for the queue to pop, be it pvp or pve, noone will go around doing world pvp, world bosses, exploration, it will be hit 50 then grind LFD while sat in fleet spamming /1

 

our server is using a global channel, more people that start using it the better.

 

/cjoin lfg

 

and its global so dont have to sit in fleet you can just go out and do ya thing and still find a group.

 

if that aint your thing....you can always just /who and check specific class or lvls and just /w people till you find one.

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The 50s queue time will get better once the game ages and more people hit 50, but I would have to completely disagree with you on the community aspect. In this game, I have made a lot of friends, I know just about everyone on the server that is any good, I have a huge friends list...people that are idiots and AFKers are black listed on the server...there are already quite a few known to the majority of the server, It's nice.

 

On Wow before cross realm it was the same way...you got to know other people from your server, I logged in and got whispers from people all the time asking me to join them because I had a rep on the server as being one of the best healers. All of that is completely lost in a cross realm "dungeon finder" once it came along I hardly made any new friends...dungeons became "business", most people aren't very social at all...they just want to get their daily/reward and be done with it and kick you or leave themselves if it doesn't go exactly how they expect it. And in the case of the odd cool person that would talk back and joke around in group...odds were I would never run into that person again once the dungeon ended. I can't /friend them...nothing. So yes I would have to disagree with you.

 

When it comes to off peak hours, I don't understand people that play on servers where their main play time isn't in line with the servers peak hours. I have a friend from Australia that played on East Coast Servers because he worked graveyard shifts and so the server peak time was in line with the east coast. If you live on the east coast try a west coast server...

 

So basically, if you don't have a past history of jerks in LFG (myself and many others that support LFG) you are supposed to play the way you view it? Am I supposed to spend my time trying to put a group together, however long it takes, because people like can't deal with anonymous you idiots? Not to say that LFG always have a "vote for kick", you know, to deal with that type of people.

 

WoW has Real ID so you have a cross server "friends" list, albeit I would discuss that you really made new "friends". You found yourself game partners, at best. Social aspect of the game is covered by Guilds.

 

Bad apples are "black listed" on the server? I suppose you play on a 10 person "server", i mean, your small gated community.

 

And if for any reason you can't play on a server peak time, "bad luck"? Any day that I have something to do that forbids me to play at the right time, should I play another game? Does it make any sense?

 

For instance I don't care about the "making internet friends" non-sense. I just want to play the co-op game (FPs). I have a huge guild that fulfills my "social" needs during operations. I know how to deal with jerks in anonymous groups. Why can't I have the option to use a cross-server LFG tool? Because you can't/don't know how to deal with jerks? Don't force you play style on others.

 

Simple enough, you don't have to use LFG tool. You can still make friends within you gated community and play with them only. If the majority starts using LFG, well, guess what? Maybe they have the skill you lack to deal with idiots.

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i agree with Gydlock, a LFD will cripple the game. people will just sit in the fleet waiting for the queue to pop, be it pvp or pve, noone will go around doing world pvp, world bosses, exploration, it will be hit 50 then grind LFD while sat in fleet spamming /1

 

our server is using a global channel, more people that start using it the better.

 

/cjoin lfg

 

and its global so dont have to sit in fleet you can just go out and do ya thing and still find a group.

 

if that aint your thing....you can always just /who and check specific class or lvls and just /w people till you find one.

 

Stop spreading rumors, please. The game badly needs a cross-server LFG to enable people to actually play the game and not play "waiting for a group".

 

World PVP is fallacy. World PVP is the pretty name to ganking low level characters, or to get ganked yourself by bigger groups. People who really like World PVP don't care about LFG.

 

World bosses aren't meant for level 50, you know that, right? They are meant to be done during level up when you are questing.

 

Why do I have to go thru all the hassle of forming a group/moving to the instance if the game already has the Warzone queuing feature? I want to queue myself and let the game do the rest, port me to the instance, and back once I'm done. Not asking for much, I'm asking for a feature to enable me to play the game more, not less.

 

Imagine how many people are stranded on their gated community off peak server hours. A LFG would enable these people to get together and play. That strengthens the game community, not weakens it.

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Cross-realm dungeon finding killed wow for me. You've lost all accountability to be any kind of quality player or quality human being. Ninjaing was rampant at lower levels and ***-hatery was prevalent in the upper levels. People would quit group after 1 death, not even a wipe. Expectations were too high and everyone became a prima-donna. Especially the tanks.

 

I would like to see a dungeon finding tool but please PLEASE keep it on just the realm. Hell, I'd rather see cross faction dungeon finding before I'd see cross-realm.

 

That's you experience. I did hundreds of LFG dungeons on my 5 80s and the majority of the time things were fine and nice. Most WoW players are nice and polite people. Stop spreading the rumor that most of 10m player base is made of idiots and jerks.

 

Again, whenever I am playing off peak hours, screw me and everyone else in the same situation. Give it a "option" to play within your server only then, and let the liked minded people play together.

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Cross-realm dungeon finding killed wow for me. You've lost all accountability to be any kind of quality player or quality human being. Ninjaing was rampant at lower levels and ***-hatery was prevalent in the upper levels. People would quit group after 1 death, not even a wipe. Expectations were too high and everyone became a prima-donna. Especially the tanks.

 

I would like to see a dungeon finding tool but please PLEASE keep it on just the realm. Hell, I'd rather see cross faction dungeon finding before I'd see cross-realm.

 

11 million subscribers disagree with you.

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Cross-realm dungeon finding killed wow for me. You've lost all accountability to be any kind of quality player or quality human being. Ninjaing was rampant at lower levels and ***-hatery was prevalent in the upper levels. People would quit group after 1 death, not even a wipe. Expectations were too high and everyone became a prima-donna. Especially the tanks.

 

I would like to see a dungeon finding tool but please PLEASE keep it on just the realm. Hell, I'd rather see cross faction dungeon finding before I'd see cross-realm.

 

Were you leveling before LFG? Nijaing rampart in loweer levels? Lower levels dungeoning was almost NON-EXISTANT before LFG, except for higher levels running the instance for a lower level one.

 

About the hate, did you made any PUG in TBC, talking about hatery...

 

People leaving groups after a few wipes in TBC and leaving the rest without a chance to finishing except if someone went to spam a chat to a capital citty for half an hour while the rest of the group waited was such a great thing.. ohh, good TBC times...

 

Take off your rose tinted glasses.

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I don't know why I always get sucked into these kinds of repetitive threads. I am pro-cross-server LFG, and I'll explain myself.

 

1.) It does not kill server community if you don't want it to. Do you prefer to group with guildies and other people you know from the server? Fine, do it. A cross-server tool does not prevent you from doing this.

 

2.) The issue with finding groups is usually not related to the lack of an LFG tool, but to the level distribution of the server population. I'd love to tank more flashpoints during off-peak times, but when there's 11 people on Taris around my level and maybe the same amount in my level range on the fleet at any given time, my options for grouping are limited.

 

If a same-server-only LFG tool was implemented, it won't magically make more players appear. It might have a small effect on the wait time for groups, but if you think it will be revolutionary, you're probably mistaken.

 

3.) It allows people to actually play the game! Lots of people have leveled to 50 and not set foot in most of the flashpoints due to difficulty with finding groups. There are also some non-MMO players who aren't necessarily familiar or comfortable with the standard tactics of small group instances. More experience in doing these kinds of things = more opportunity for players to improve in group situations = better pool of players for endgame PVE content.

 

Whether it's fair or not, WOW set the bar high for tools to increase the convenience of playing the co-operative PVE aspects of the game, and it's a reality that we have to live with in SWTOR, even if you haven't played WOW before.

 

---

 

That said, I don't see such a system being implemented any time soon as it's technically complicated and resource-intensive, which is a problem when there are other aspects of the game that need some work.

 

I'll happily wait for this kind of tool until after we have things like the Legacy system, dual spec, UI customization, and so on. But I feel it's going to come in due time and the game will be more enjoyable because of it.

 

A side note - in my WOW experience, 97.5% of groups of cross-server players that I was a part of went smoothly and were free of jerks and idiots.

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LFG system won't be needed, all we need is a /4. LFG channel. When you are in your factions fleet your lfg messages in /1. general will never reach that potential partymember who is doing dailies in Ilum or farmign Datacrons on Tatooine.
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LFG system won't be needed, all we need is a /4. LFG channel. When you are in your factions fleet your lfg messages in /1. general will never reach that potential partymember who is doing dailies in Ilum or farmign Datacrons on Tatooine.

 

Fine, then do the same for Warzones. Create a world PVP channel, force you to invite people to an ops group, walk to the PVP instance and wait for an opposing team to arrive. Whenever 2 teams are present, the match begins.

 

Does this sound reasonable to you? Because that's grouping for PVE content according to the 'let's build communities' crowd, including Bioware.

Edited by Skann
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A side note - in my WOW experience, 97.5% of groups of cross-server players that I was a part of went smoothly and were free of jerks and idiots.

 

Same here. 5 level 80s, hundreds (several) of LFG dungeons completed. 95% of time around nice and polite people.

 

Yet, the non-sense about 'cross-server LFG breeding jerks' is alive and strong among Bioware Products team.

 

BTW, I propose a challenge to Bioware employers reading this: try to play your own game in a low-pop (or high-pop during off peak hours) server and tell me about your social experience.

 

Thanks in advance.

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Fine, then do the same for Warzones. Create a world PVP channel, force you to invite people to an ops group, walk to the PVP instance and wait for an opposing team to arrive. Whenever 2 teams are present, the match begins.

 

Does this sound reasonable to you? Because that's grouping for PVE content according to the 'let's build communities' crowd, including Bioware.

 

I actually said in my original post that I would like a Dungeon Finder, I would just prefere it NOT be cross realm. You have reasons why you would like it to be cross realm, I have reasons why I don't. We can agree to disagree or w/e on that but don't clump me or distort my post into that. If anything I think it would be a start, perhaps you aren't finding groups because a lot of people have general off...I know I do. If people wanted to run a flashpoint and they had a queuing tool just like the warzone tool you don't think it would ease up the process even if it wasn't "cross realm"?

 

Also what was this business about not being able to deal with idiots. I don't have any issue dealing with idiots or I wouldn't come near these forums :p

 

I explained why I didn't like cross realm stuff, and nothing to do with a lack of skill or ability to deal on my part.

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Blah, blah, blah.. only make it on the server, blah, blah, blah, it'll kill the community if it isn't on the server, blah, blah, blah..

 

Hey, did you know that you can list yourself as LFG in your notes? Did you also know that you can spam general chat for hours and hours at a time? Yeah, I'll bet you did.

 

Localized LFG doesn't solve the problem of spending hours and hours looking for a group if your time to play is considered off peak. Please save that stupid f'ing argument that players should just play peak time. People actually do work grave yards or swing or some other funky thing. So they just may not be able to play at peak times.

 

Cross-realm LFG solves the problem of people having to waste their damn time looking for something to do. I do not want to wait 2-3hrs when I play in the middle of the night looking for a group. My time is important to me and I want to spend it doing something enjoyable.

 

I played WoW for 2 years, 5 85's all raided from Wrath through DS, I have run thousands of 5mans and I would say that MAYBE 1-3% of all the 5mans I ever ran were filled with aholes who didn't care about anyone but themselves. I played on Blackrock and on Tich.

Edited by Aleeha
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Also I would like to add that if it wasn't because of my Pre Dungeon Finder experience in WoW I probably wouldn't even be here because I met most of my friends I came here with from grouping and meeting them, eventually joining guilds with them ect. In fact I met my wife in a Pug.
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I actually said in my original post that I would like a Dungeon Finder, I would just prefere it NOT be cross realm. You have reasons why you would like it to be cross realm, I have reasons why I don't. We can agree to disagree or w/e on that but don't clump me or distort my post into that. If anything I think it would be a start, perhaps you aren't finding groups because a lot of people have general off...I know I do. If people wanted to run a flashpoint and they had a queuing tool just like the warzone tool you don't think it would ease up the process even if it wasn't "cross realm"?

 

Also what was this business about not being able to deal with idiots. I don't have any issue dealing with idiots or I wouldn't come near these forums :p

 

I explained why I didn't like cross realm stuff, and nothing to do with a lack of skill or ability to deal on my part.

 

A non-cross-realm finder stills penalizes people that can't play during server peak hours. Besides, you are also stranding your player base. There is always people in this same situation spread across realms, they just can't reach each other. How is that good for the community?

 

Is it a step on the right direction? Sure thing. Is it the final solution? Not at all.

 

Finally, it's not that hard to implement the cross-realm LFG with an opt-out option, so that you choose not to play with "foreigners".

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Tweens with 15 sec attention spans killed the server communities in wow, not cross server lfg tools. As someone whos played mmos since eq1 was released i would definately say its the people not the game that did all of that.

 

Hell I was in the Ultima online beta back in 97 and was playing that until EQ 1...trust me I know how much things have evolved. But nothing killed my interest in a game faster than the cross realm dungeon finder did for me.

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Hell I was in the Ultima online beta back in 97 and was playing that until EQ 1...trust me I know how much things have evolved. But nothing killed my interest in a game faster than the cross realm dungeon finder did for me.

 

You know you aren't forced to use cross-realm functions, right?

 

Look at it this way: the more elitists jerks and ninjas filtered via cross-realm grouping system, the more cool guys you have to play with from your local gated community.

 

It's a win-win scenario.

 

Unless, of course, you want to force people to play according to your views? Is that your thing?

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Hell I was in the Ultima online beta back in 97 and was playing that until EQ 1...trust me I know how much things have evolved. But nothing killed my interest in a game faster than the cross realm dungeon finder did for me.

 

Fine, that's you and you're entitled to your opinion. The vast majority of MMO subscribers either like cross-server or don't reall mind it. The direction of the MMO Industry is to move toward easier grouping and social utilities, not the other way around. It sucks for a small segment of the player community, and that's too bad, but for-profit businesses like BioWare must cater to the paying masses or they go the way of dinosaurs.

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