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Yoshi-P talks swtor and why Final Fantasy XIV will be sub only.


lorelthesecond

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This part of the interview really stands out its so true.

 

"That’s why you see a lot of companies that chose the subscription model, that wanted to do what we were doing, but were forced to free-to-play. They didn’t go to free-to-play by choice, because if that was the case, they would have gone free-to-play at the beginning. They’d develop it for free-to-play, not full subscription, instead of being forced to go free-to-play. We hear a lot of people saying, “Star Wars is free-to-play now, it’s great!” But then you ask them if they’re playing free-to-play Star Wars and they say, “No, not really playing it.” Everyone talks about how great it is that it went free-to-play, but then you ask around and really, there aren’t that many people who are playing it since it’s gone free-to-play. If you spend all that money on a game ,release it, and it’s filled with bugs and you don’t have enough time to do your updates, people will leave. Players need that new content. Not being able to provide it is fatal. If they were able to produce as much content as players wanted, then people would have stayed there. We don’t really believe it’s a problem with the business model. It’s how that’s handled."

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I don't mean to sound like a tool here, because I actually agree with most of the things he says (like the fact that "the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model") and kudos for calling the original release what it really was (a failure) but...

 

Square Enix developed a game that has been called a "step backward for the genre", it was considered unfinished, if not totally unplayable and one that "has greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand".

 

Until they prove that they are actually willing to put a good game in the market instead of just reciting the old "yeah, the subscription model is changing but we truly believe Subs are the way to go" (not unlike Bioware did) I'm going to take everything he says with a grain of salt

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I don't mean to sound like a tool here, because I actually agree with most of the things he says (like the fact that "the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model") and kudos for calling the original release what it really was (a failure) but...

 

Square Enix developed a game that has been called a "step backward for the genre", it was considered unfinished, if not totally unplayable and one that "has greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand".

 

Until they prove that they are actually willing to put a good game in the market instead of just reciting the old "yeah, the subscription model is changing but we truly believe Subs are the way to go" (not unlike Bioware did) I'm going to take everything he says with a grain of salt

 

They have proven it. Everyone in the Final Fantasy Online A Realm Reborn beta says the game is amazing.

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This part of the interview really stands out its so true.

 

"(...)If you spend all that money on a game ,release it, and it’s filled with bugs and you don’t have enough time to do your updates, people will leave. Players need that new content. Not being able to provide it is fatal. If they were able to produce as much content as players wanted, then people would have stayed there. We don’t really believe it’s a problem with the business model. It’s how that’s handled."

 

I was going to quote the same paragraph as well. He definitely hits the nail on the head with this one.

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Interesting reading, but we have to wait and see. Personally, I don't think the subscription model is viable given what happen to many subscription base mmorpgs.

 

Square Enix like Sega has both a North American and Japanese division. Does Square Enix plan to release FF XIV simultaneous as their Japanese release and will we be able to switch between both regions? If FF XIV will go live sooner in Japan will we be able to subscribe without going through hoops like with PSO2 from Sega of Japan?

 

Unless it's an already established title like Sonic the Hedgehog, Sega of North America has released abysmal games in comparison to Sega of Japan. Take for example pso not being on the same content patch for the North American version and having to go through great extremes to register or buy AC tokens while remaining on Japanese version. Any port from Japanese version made by Sega of North America other than an mmorpg has equally been a disaster. Thus, I hope Square Enix makes a game that is more accessible to the west, is on par the Japanese version. and at least allows us to switch between regions like swtor. In wow they make you buy a new copy if you want to play on the European servers.

Edited by Knockerz
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They have proven it. Everyone in the Final Fantasy Online A Realm Reborn beta says the game is amazing.

 

Yeah, Beta Players are not really trustworthy when it comes to judging an MMO.

They are usually fans of the game so they are (to some extent) biased and most of the bugs/problems with the game only become apparent when a lot more people are playing the game.

Time will tell.

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Yeah, Beta Players are not really trustworthy when it comes to judging an MMO.

They are usually fans of the game so they are (to some extent) biased and most of the bugs/problems with the game only become apparent when a lot more people are playing the game.

Time will tell.

 

I agree. Beta testers aren't very good metric to judge a mmorpg. It's only when the game goes live and people have been playing for a few weeks or months can you judge if the mmo is any good. Besides, almost every beta tester says that.

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I agree. Beta testers aren't very good metric to judge a mmorpg. It's only when the game goes live and people have been playing for a few weeks or months can you judge if the mmo is any good. Besides, almost every beta tester says that.

 

Exactly.

Plus, you know...they also did beta test the original FFXIV and look how that turned out.

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Exactly.

Plus, you know...they also did beta test the original FFXIV and look how that turned out.

 

The difference is everyone in the original FFXIV beta said the game was crap unlike now with A Realm Reborn where everyone says the game is great.

 

Also if you don't believe everyone why don't you try the beta yourself?

 

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/s/run?sq=717502b1fcab19701085c2aca2769da0dcfad9732c24d9ef4c70a20681cde2769bef8dc26073e8151c022b745a01641aa077cf3b12adfc73fe215ccf8b2e

Edited by lorelthesecond
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The difference is everyone in the original FFXIV beta said the game was crap unlike now with A Realm Reborn where everyone says the game is great.

 

Also if you don't believe everyone why don't you try the beta yourself?

 

https://secure.square-enix.com/enqt/s/run?sq=717502b1fcab19701085c2aca2769da0dcfad9732c24d9ef4c70a20681cde2769bef8dc26073e8151c022b745a01641aa077cf3b12adfc73fe215ccf8b2e

 

It gave this error:

 

 

Error7003

Unable to send due to an unknown error.

Please wait a while and try again from the beginning.

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Um, because I don't like FF? ;)

But that's besides the point.

 

You posted Yoshida's interview where he talks about how the subscription model is changing but subscribers are still better for larger scale MMOs, like Swtor, to which I concur.

 

However, I pointed out that the original Final Fantasy was, as he himself has admitted, a huge failure. So, until Square Enix proves they care more about their game and the legacy of Final Fantasy and less about subscribers' money, I will take his words as an effort to promote the game and nothing more.

 

After all, that's pretty much the exact same thing all companies say when their MMO requires a subscription. Unless I'm mistaken, there were similar interviews with Bioware devs saying that "F2P wouldn't work for Swtor". And less than a year later, it did.

 

I hope the new FF will be a good MMO. The more the better. I will not play because I hate the FF series but still, it's good that they are trying. And I do hope it'll be able to survive with a sub model. I very much doubt it because we are not living in 2004-2008 and people are always on the verge of leaving for that new shiny MMO that just came out, but I do hope it'll work for them and maybe restore companies' interest in the old subscription model.

 

As for "big words" and promises, let's just wait and see.

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Interesting reading, but we have to wait and see. Personally, I don't think the subscription model is viable given what happen to many subscription base mmorpgs.

 

no offense but how blind do you have to be? Get out of BioDefenseMode.

 

WoW, whether YOU like it or not proves this wrong...and has for YEARS.

 

So many MMO's have gone sub->f2p because they lack the quality, content, and were rushed out hoping to cash in and take a piece of that "WoW pie"

 

WoW may be dropping in subs, but that's because it's how many years OLD now??? and even yet what...7-9 MILLION or so happily pay their sub every month...

 

SWTOR never even hit HALF that..and started bleeding subs as soon as the first month was done.

 

that whole "market is leaning towards f2p" trite is complete garbage, ironically said ONLY by the companies that have FAILED to hold a sub model.

 

I've been here since beta. and while I've let my sub go a month or two in breaks (I've already done all class stories and had a long time ago) I've yet to actually play while not paying...f2p is garbage.

 

Not to mention f2p models are bad...because even subscribers HAVE to pay extra...and no I'm not talking about RotHC (though for most MMO's RotHC woulda just been a free content update).....all those pretty little items on the CM? the ones not directly tied to nullify f2p-vs-sub restrictions would have been added to the game for nothing...but subscribers now have to pay extra for it. f2p is crap.

 

so again...the facts and proof are against you...as long as you take off your blinders

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no offense but how blind do you have to be? Get out of BioDefenseMode.

 

WoW, whether YOU like it or not proves this wrong...and has for YEARS.

 

So many MMO's have gone sub->f2p because they lack the quality, content, and were rushed out hoping to cash in and take a piece of that "WoW pie"

 

WoW may be dropping in subs, but that's because it's how many years OLD now??? and even yet what...7-9 MILLION or so happily pay their sub every month...

 

SWTOR never even hit HALF that..and started bleeding subs as soon as the first month was done.

 

that whole "market is leaning towards f2p" trite is complete garbage, ironically said ONLY by the companies that have FAILED to hold a sub model.

 

I've been here since beta. and while I've let my sub go a month or two in breaks (I've already done all class stories and had a long time ago) I've yet to actually play while not paying...f2p is garbage.

 

Not to mention f2p models are bad...because even subscribers HAVE to pay extra...and no I'm not talking about RotHC (though for most MMO's RotHC woulda just been a free content update).....all those pretty little items on the CM? the ones not directly tied to nullify f2p-vs-sub restrictions would have been added to the game for nothing...but subscribers now have to pay extra for it. f2p is crap.

 

so again...the facts and proof are against you...as long as you take off your blinders

 

You should do some more research. Wow does not have that many millions of western subscribers. Eastern shouldn't even be counted as subscribers since they pay by hour. You should know this if you played wow for any length of time. You should also know that wow was released in era in mmorpg that had very little competition. If I recall there was only swg, everquest 2, and wow for western mmorpgs. You also forget that most people prior to wow were using 56k modems even in large cities. Cable and dsl was still very expensive. Only large companies could afford to place their product on the shelves of large brick and mortar stores like Best Buy, Walmart, and so forth. Thus, if you were going to play an mmorpg back, then your only choices were at the shelves of these stores. If you had dsl or cable it wasn't very fast, expensive, and was less accessible.

 

Ten years later, a lot things have change. You can now download an mmorpg without having to wait weeks or months to download. Blizzard, BW, and many other large game developing companies don't hold a monopoly at stores since you can download any game you want that suits your playing style for mmorpgs. That is a big difference. Now every mmorpg has to compete with any other mmorpgs that you can download. That's the only reason I'm playing pso2. You can only buy the game in Japan.

 

Actually, "WoW" declining subscription numbers is proof that model is no longer viable. In fact, Blizzard went so far as to restart their "Titan" mmorpg, which was based on "WoW" model.

 

“We’ve always had a highly iterative development process, and the unannounced MMO is no exception. We’ve come to a point where we need to make some large design and technology changes to the game. We’re using this opportunity to shift some of our resources to assist with other projects while the core team adapts our technology and tools to accommodate these new changes. Note that we haven’t announced any dates for the MMO.”

 

If the entire "WoW" model were so successful in the current mmorpg market, then why delay their next generation mmorpg, which is based on the "WoW" model? Obviously, the market has change. If FF XIV fails as a subscription model mmorpg I highly doubt it any future AAA mmorpg will launch as a subscription model given the long list of AAA titles that have failed.

 

By the sound of your post, you seem to dislike f2p model. You also seem to forget WoW has produced two full expansions prior to swtor going live. Did you play wow in vanilla or BC? The game has change radically from those early years. There was no auto queue for lfg, raids, pvp, and so forth in vailla wow when it went live. There were no battleground initially. To run a dungeon you had to use trade chat to form groups, then walk all way to the dungeon. If you lost some one you had to go back to the cities to find a replacement and hope no else left.

 

What your proposing about quality, content, and rush is exactly how WoW was launched. The main difference being is that Blizzard listen to their players and made changes accordingly through out vanilla and bc. Sony did not do the same and consequently lost the mmorpg war with Blizzard with swg. As for Everquest 2 was not innovative enough or borrowed from other mmorpgs to appeal to casual players. It took Blizzard several expansion to be where they are now. You can't expect an mmorpg, even an AAA title, to develop that level of quality and amount of content at launch.

 

If an mmorpg fails to meet a persons expectations in today's market, he or she can play an already establish mmorpg as an alternative. In wow's golden era especially in vanilla and bc, there were no alternative mmorpgs of similar quality that were as accessible to casual players. Today, there are many mmorpgs that are f2p, which is why no has to put up with an mmorpg that doesn't meet your expectations. In vanilla or bc, you didn't really have much of choice. That's the only reason I started playing wow after swg tank. I stop playing WoW in mid cataclysm.

Edited by Knockerz
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I agree most what he says but same time I also think he fail to realize some player burn through content much faster than general public. To make thing worse those burn through content in days are the one usually complain they have nothing to do in game and on forum and quit.

 

I always fail to understand why would player take 3 or 4 days off work and play a mmo none-stop but end up quit the game a month later. I am not just talking about SWTOR, I am also talking about all the mmo released recently which include WOW MOP expansion as well. (All my friends in wow took time off from school/ work and play MOP none stop for 2 days to hit lv 90. A month later 90% of them quit WOW again.)

 

I have a wow guild mate whom played swtor. He was like gees this game is so much fun and all the class are interesting I really dunno what to play. However a month later after all his friend quit the game, his tone changed and say swtor is worst game ever. He and his friend (also my old guild mates) change from mmo to mmo and went through the same circle every time. (WOW > bored than quit > new MMO popsucking > Bored than quit > go back to wow.)

Edited by hchsiao
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I don't. It's probably one of my worst mmo experiences I have ever made (played Beta 2 and 3).

 

Question.. Does it still has level down system when your character die? I only played FF11 like 10 min because I level up to 6 than drop back to level 5 3 times in row. :mad:

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They have proven it. Everyone in the Final Fantasy Online A Realm Reborn beta says the game is amazing.

 

I'm in beta. The game isnt amazing.

 

Its not bad, definitly playable, wich the other one wasnt. But, its very slow paced and it has massive global cooldowns of 2.5 seconds. You will not be able to play it if you enjoy this game. It gets boring fast.

 

I like what Yoshi P is saying but i think hes throwing the party a bit early. Beeing able to supply enough content to keep players satisfied is easier said than done. Bioware thought they had that nailed aswell and it turned out it wasnt.

Fingers crossed that FF can do it though.

 

Presently i find myself wishing this game had more content. I like playing it, but the uncertainty about the future is a huge deterrent for me. I need to know that theres a full fledged expansion coming. These small often updates are not doing it for me.

Edited by Nemmar
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I don't mean to sound like a tool here, because I actually agree with most of the things he says (like the fact that "the larger the scale of the MMO, it’s going to be better for the game if it’s on a subscription model") and kudos for calling the original release what it really was (a failure) but...

 

Square Enix developed a game that has been called a "step backward for the genre", it was considered unfinished, if not totally unplayable and one that "has greatly damaged the Final Fantasy brand".

 

Until they prove that they are actually willing to put a good game in the market instead of just reciting the old "yeah, the subscription model is changing but we truly believe Subs are the way to go" (not unlike Bioware did) I'm going to take everything he says with a grain of salt

 

They are proving they're willing, hence the new FF coming out at the end of August.

 

What they've shown is they're able to step up if their game starts going down or fails. Instead of calling it "We're done!" like TOR did :p

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They have proven it. Everyone in the Final Fantasy Online A Realm Reborn beta says the game is amazing.

 

You are obviously a fanboy. I have the CE of ff14 and it was, hands down, the single worst MMO i have ever played. It was that bad. Due to the fact I have the CE and can get the FF:AFF free when it drops, i've kept an eye on it. on the mmorpg forums, they are shredding the game. Calling it a complete disaster and that its setting the mmorpg back 10 years. It will not do any better than it did originally. Not saying SWTOR is perfect (because im a pvp sub who's unsubbed due to lack of commitment, caring, and content from SWTOR), but FF14s live in a glass house and just want to milk some more subs out of people who are convinced that because ff14 was redesigned that it has to be better, being 4/10 better is still an improvement over 2/10, but it's still a piece of trash. They only want the sub to make back some cash lost in the original design and redesign, let's not forget that while they are bashing f2p, that their product was so bad that they couldn't charge a sub fee for almost 18 months after launch due to NOBODY sticking with their bad product.

Edited by justandulas
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FFXIV ARR is an acquired taste, much like SWTOR is, but it is fair to say that Yoshi-P has worked miracles on FFXIV, he may not have turned it into the best MMO ever, but to come as far as he has with it is a testament to his understanding of both the genre and the player, as well his ability to make his team do the damn work. :)
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They are proving they're willing, hence the new FF coming out at the end of August.

 

What they've shown is they're able to step up if their game starts going down or fails. Instead of calling it "We're done!" like TOR did :p

 

Um, not really.

We don't actually know if the new version is significantly better than the old version. It will obviously better than the old one (although, I fail to see how it could be any worse) but that doesn't say much other than the fact that the first one was so horribly bad, there was no way to save it except to relaunch it.

 

Honestly, I do not see FF lasting very long with a sub-only model. Which is why it would probably be better if Yoshida reserved his comments for when the game has launched and is doing well on a traditional subscription model. I'm pretty sure many other developers would like those kind of comments to be forever forgotten.

 

Going F2P no longer means "we're done", though ;)

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You are obviously a fanboy. I have the CE of ff14 and it was, hands down, the single worst MMO i have ever played. It was that bad. Due to the fact I have the CE and can get the FF:AFF free when it drops, i've kept an eye on it. on the mmorpg forums, they are shredding the game. Calling it a complete disaster and that its setting the mmorpg back 10 years. It will not do any better than it did originally. Not saying SWTOR is perfect (because im a pvp sub who's unsubbed due to lack of commitment, caring, and content from SWTOR), but FF14s live in a glass house and just want to milk some more subs out of people who are convinced that because ff14 was redesigned that it has to be better, being 4/10 better is still an improvement over 2/10, but it's still a piece of trash. They only want the sub to make back some cash lost in the original design and redesign, let's not forget that while they are bashing f2p, that their product was so bad that they couldn't charge a sub fee for almost 18 months after launch due to NOBODY sticking with their bad product.

 

No just no.

 

The large majority of people in the Beta are saying how great the game is only a few people don't like it. Have a read of this thread here and you can see for yourself http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1013387-Megathread-Final-Fantasy-XIV-NDA-Lifted/page114

 

Also how can anyone say this game is bad after playing it and with a feature set of this is beyond me...

 

At launch:

1. Ability to effectively solo to endgame levels using any class

2. Multiple classes incl. fast, effective class switching

3. Combat classes can be upgraded into advanced Jobs

4. Standalone gathering and crafting classes

5. Equipment durability, breaking & repairing

6. Abilities earned through questing

7. Guild housing incl. furniture making, buffs

8. Boss rush-style group PvE

9. No Microtransactions

10. No corpse running

11. "Daily" credits can be accumulated for later use, up to 17 days worth.

12. Any "Daily" content can be repeated so long as credits are onhand.

13. Minimap can use "north" or "forward" as its cardinal direction.

14. Free storage for special and event-related equipment

15. Mount in which you can use as a fighting companion, with customizable abilities, fighting style, and barding.

16. Roaming bosses which grow stronger after each time they are defeated.

17. Was an MMO that upgraded to a new graphical engine, new game mechanics, post launch.

18. Spontaneous large-scale events which occur in the open world over time, and scale in difficulty based on player numbers nearby.

19. Group-based combat stacking supermoves

20. Enemy abilities can be disabled by targeting specific body parts- can also produce alternate loot.

21. Mount-centric events and content

 

 

 

Planned after launch:

1. Personal housing incl. furniture making, buffs

2. Ship building & content

3. Airship building & content

4. Casino incl. a variety of attractions

5. Racing Mounts

6. NPCs who will perform some tasks for you even when you are offline.

7. These NPCs can progress in level and capabilities.

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