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Acquisition Changes: Next PTS Patch

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Acquisition Changes: Next PTS Patch
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damonskye's Avatar


damonskye
09.20.2019 , 02:02 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You bring up some good points and questions I want to try to address.

Overcomplicated - I realize that these really long posts about spoils of war make it seem really complex. Most of this is born out of the fact that we are just being very open about all of the workings under the hood, which we don't typically do. To address your feedback directly think of it this way:
Play whatever content you want, you will get constant gear for whatever you are playing. If you don't get the thing you want, go to the vendor and buy it.
It is just that simple. If you want to really get into the inner workings, then the info is there for you!

Learning from adding 248+ - Let me clarify. When I say adding new gear we are not talking about vertical (higher item ratings). I am talking about horizontal (more set bonuses / tactical options).

-eric
Thank you, Eric. Although you and the developers might be tempted to believe that there is a massive backlash against the gearing process, please note that there are also people here who feel this is (a) perfectly reasonable and (b) fairly obvious already. I certainly don't think the sky is falling and that it's fairly obvious we're going to be getting so much gear as to make it kind of ridiculous... at least that's the intent. And I still have to wonder why getting max gear as rapidly as possible is so important to people, but that's just me.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
09.20.2019 , 02:07 PM | #22
Eric, another suggestion which might ease the concerns surrounding RNG. Corellia will have specific drops, why not have each flashpoint have a specific drop as well? Or at the very least a higher chance of X drop. Like for example maybe Hammer Station drops X set bonus or Y Tactical item.

As for the raids, why not have specific, or higher chance for raid drops in other raids as well? With each boss dropping a piece? Adding those might ease the concern of the playerbase. Only reason I can think of is that you guys want endgamers to mostly gear through Dxun or that you guys really want the "play your way" philosophy into the game's design so people can get any gear from anywhere, which is fair but it might be a pain to people who aren't always running Dxun (New raid and all so it'll take a while for PUGs to be able to easily clear it) as well as the possibility of RNG not giving raiders what they want/require in terms of gear progression. Can you at the very least add a higher chance for certain set bonuses to drop on specific raids? Are those an option?
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TrigPt's Avatar


TrigPt
09.20.2019 , 02:14 PM | #23
My thoughts are that the latest iteration of gearing is a big improvement on the first version and I look forward to testing it next week.

My one suggestion based on the original post is regarding the focused gearing with conquests and flashpoints. Since conquests will only drop two items per character a week, the loot table seems to have a lot of sets. I'm not sure conquest rewards are a good fit for multiple sets since it's going to take a lot of weeks to complete a set with conquests.

Flashpoints have a large number of tacticals but since traditionally they were an entry point for operations I'd like the number of sets available expanded to include a generic tank, heal and, DPS set. This would give tanks and healers a reason to queue and get their first set bonus before moving onto operations. Plus flashpoints can be run many times and are therefore more suited to the larger loot table that sets bring.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
09.20.2019 , 02:21 PM | #24
While the chase is fun, at some point I want it to simply catch the fox.

I.e. I do not play this game to grind gear

I've been repeating content endlessly for the last what 7 years? If I wasn't ok with this, why would I still be giving you money? besides what, gear is not content, and I dont appreciate having the new content shoved down my throat by scenarios like ossus. As I've said many times, I'd do ossus many more times if you hadn't added gear to it. Ossus was pleasurable enough as the first new story content in years, why ruin it with pointless gear?

Further, the point of the amplifiers is still not clear to me. They were stated to be small stat adjustments that arent included in balance totals but are just for customization and min/maxing.

If this can be min/maxed by very definition they arent irrelevant as the entire point of min/maxing is to do the most (or minimum) of something. If this is the case, include it in the balance total and say it's a credit sink. If these are truly meaningless, get rid of them. Otherwise explain the middle ground.

Flying-Brian's Avatar


Flying-Brian
09.20.2019 , 02:35 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Moddable Gear
We have definitely heard concerns about the lack of mods and moddable gear as you progress through the vertical progression in Onslaught. There is one thing I want to reiterate as you consider your feedback for loot acquisition. It is our goal that your vertical progression will happen very quickly and consistently. We expect you are going to replace gear pieces very often until you hit 306, let us know if that is not the case.

We know many of you use modded armor pieces (often with augments) and so will have a desire to move mods around through your gear. This is especially true for weapons since they are currently not in appearance designer. Here are the changes we are making:
  • All weapons will now be moddable, and drop with mods included.
    • This includes both drops and purchased weapons.
  • Takatta will now sell mods by type.
    • Reminder that anything you purchase from Takatta will always be for your current Discipline and of a higher rating than your character's current average.
  • The starter gear you receive for completing the Onslaught story (full 268 set) was previously static, it will now be moddable with mods included.
  • More mods will be dropping in general.
Eric, while this helps with issues for moddable weapons, there are still some other problems with moddable gear that must be addressed and fixed/adjusted before 6.0 goes live.

There is just too much RNG involved with moddable gear and set bonus items and how badly designed it is.

When moddable/set bonus gear is obtained (from a drop, or a vendor) there is RNG to determin everything about each mod in that gear piece individually. So you have.
  • RNG to determine the iLevel rating of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the version of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the 20+ variants of the mod.
  • RNG to determine the amplifier on the mod.
And all this for every piece of moddable gear available.

So the chances of each mod being at the same iLevel rating (unless you get the piece at lvl 270) are very slim. At iLevel 306, I have seen gear with a 306 armoring, 296 mod, and 284 enhancement, this issue alone means that most of the time when you get a moddable/set bonus piece it will be a downgrade in item rating from what you have.

This is an easy fix, please remove the RNG from the iLevel rating of each mod, so that all of the mods in a gear item are at the same iLevel rating. A iLevel 306 chest piece should have all 3 mods with a 306 rating.

The next issue is the 20 extra variations (R1-R20) of every type of mod that was added in. These are unwanted, not needed, and no one asked for them. The only reason they seem to be there is to punish the players and make an already long RNG grind even longer. Again this is on all moddable gear, from set bonus items, to weapons, and just regular moddble pieces. From 1.0-5.0 set bonus gear has always had the correct optimized mods in them that players need to min/max their stats. Now it's a 100% crap shoot if there will even be 1 mod that is of a usable, or upgraded level, let alone be the unlettered version that is needed.

Currently mods have 3 versions, unlettered, A, B. Why is there a need to add 20 extra variations of each type, each with inferior stats? This problem was already addressed in the 5.0 life cycle, as all moddable gear from CXP crates had the correct unlettered versions of the mods in them.

Again, this can be an easy fix. First, remove all of the R1-R20 variations, and go back to just the unlettered, A, and B types. Have it so that all set bonus gear has the correct, optimized, unlettered version of mods in them. Then you can have your RNG with normal non-set bonus moddable gear, and that gear can have a random chance for 1 of the 3 different versions of a mod.

phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
09.20.2019 , 03:02 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by FlameYOL View Post
Eric, another suggestion which might ease the concerns surrounding RNG. Corellia will have specific drops, why not have each flashpoint have a specific drop as well? Or at the very least a higher chance of X drop. Like for example maybe Hammer Station drops X set bonus or Y Tactical item.

As for the raids, why not have specific, or higher chance for raid drops in other raids as well? With each boss dropping a piece? Adding those might ease the concern of the playerbase. Only reason I can think of is that you guys want endgamers to mostly gear through Dxun or that you guys really want the "play your way" philosophy into the game's design so people can get any gear from anywhere
I think you've answered your own questions. I can only imagine the threads complaining about how they have to run Flashpoint X to get tactical A over and over again. Or, people dropping from PUGs because they cleared boss #2 or 3 and didn't get the drop they wanted, especially if story modes have no lockout or even the 24 hour lockout like they have on PTS currently. As it stands right now, while I am glad I have incentives to run all forms of content, you know there will be threads complaining about why someone needs to run a warzone at all simply because they are interested in set bonus X or tactical A.

Quote: Originally Posted by TrigPt View Post
My one suggestion based on the original post is regarding the focused gearing with conquests and flashpoints. Since conquests will only drop two items per character a week, the loot table seems to have a lot of sets. I'm not sure conquest rewards are a good fit for multiple sets since it's going to take a lot of weeks to complete a set with conquests.
Now this is a criticism that has a lot of merit. Now, I didn't write down all the set bonus names that were on PTS phase 1.5 so I have no specific recollection of what the set boni are simply from the names Musco posted that were bonus drops from Conquest. But consider:
  • You only have one opportunity to earn this per week per character
  • Yes, you can do conquest on multiple characters, but ...
  • Conquest personal goals are doubling with nerfs to other points gained AND lots of high point value objectives being once per legacy
These limitations scream out the need for RNG protection with these set boni.
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DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
09.20.2019 , 03:20 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Takatta will now sell mods by type.
  • Reminder that anything you purchase from Takatta will always be for your current Discipline and of a higher rating than your character's current average.
Hey Eric, what if I don't want Discipline specific or Higher rating mods? I thought it was play our way and currently I feel restricted. Stop faffing around and just give us what we want, also just change drops to currency so we can buy what we want.
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Raansu's Avatar


Raansu
09.20.2019 , 03:34 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by damonskye View Post
Thank you, Eric. Although you and the developers might be tempted to believe that there is a massive backlash against the gearing process, please note that there are also people here who feel this is (a) perfectly reasonable and (b) fairly obvious already. I certainly don't think the sky is falling and that it's fairly obvious we're going to be getting so much gear as to make it kind of ridiculous... at least that's the intent. And I still have to wonder why getting max gear as rapidly as possible is so important to people, but that's just me.
You'd be in the minority on that one.

Also, its not the speed most have an issue with. Its the method of the system. This is even more complex than what we had in 4.x which BW seemed to think was too complicated for most even though it was extremely straight forward. Players lost a system that made sense to them with guaranteed drops from each final boss and knowing that their running of said content was worth the time compared to what we're seeing now with rng and a "chance" at a direct drop.

If people thought the 5.x exodus was bad......good luck with 6.x.

Rolodome's Avatar


Rolodome
09.20.2019 , 03:45 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
You bring up some good points and questions I want to try to address.

Overcomplicated - I realize that these really long posts about spoils of war make it seem really complex. Most of this is born out of the fact that we are just being very open about all of the workings under the hood, which we don't typically do. To address your feedback directly think of it this way:
Play whatever content you want, you will get constant gear for whatever you are playing. If you don't get the thing you want, go to the vendor and buy it.
It is just that simple. If you want to really get into the inner workings, then the info is there for you!

Learning from adding 248+ - Let me clarify. When I say adding new gear we are not talking about vertical (higher item ratings). I am talking about horizontal (more set bonuses / tactical options).

-eric
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt on this one that you're trying to be communicative and understanding.

But... this ain't it, chief. KendraP gives you feedback that the system is overcomplicated. You tell them it's mostly due to posts going under the hood, thereby demonstrating that you have no intention of taking their feedback seriously and that they are generally wrong. Then you give them an expansion tagline.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Play whatever content you want, you will get constant gear for whatever you are playing. If you don't get the thing you want, go to the vendor and buy it.
Imagine if you said, "Programming seems pretty complicated."

And I said, "Yeah, I can see how you'd think that when you go to learn, but it's really just like this: Type up some code in a compiler, hit build, and viola, you're a programmer. If your program doesn't run, just debug it."

To me, your response here communicates that you pass along feedback based on assumptions about what people mean/desire and don't actually listen to what they are saying. It's not a good look, g. You take in feedback on assumptions, you're just going to be wrongo, wrongo, wrongo, time after time.

You gotta hear people, man. This feedback isn't being sent to you in a bottle, from across the ocean. You can ask people questions. Like, "What about the system do you feel is overly complicated?" They tell you, maybe it turns out there's nothing under that rock, but you might find something important under there too. If you just say, "Nope, I know what's under that rock, I am magic," you aren't gonna get anywhere.
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Darev's Avatar


Darev
09.20.2019 , 04:18 PM | #30
Eric,

A couple questions right off the bat here.

If I don't get the drop I want you're saying we can go to a vendor and buy it.
If I want a chest piece is what I see 100% what I get?
The set bonus?
The armoring rating
The mod rating
The enhancement rating

Are they all the same (IE - item rating 300)

OR

by "buy what you want" do you mean get the chest with the specific set bonus but the rest of the above will still be RNG

OR

Will it be an empty shell?
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