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Changes for PT/VG

TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
04.02.2017 , 06:49 AM | #1
We all know that PT and VG are just completely borked right now. Here are my ideas to give the VG a leg up and help him with surviving longer and giving more tools to get the job done.

-Jetstorm/Storm, those abiliites are currently at lvl 59 which is a frakking JOKE. There is no reason EA can give for giving the one ability that allows the VG/PT tanks to close all the way at lvl 59. If anything Harpoon should be made the lvl 59 ability(since it's mostly useless anyways) and Storm should move down to lvl 10. No reason jedi get their close abilities out the gate but VG/PT do not? THE HELL?!

-Up the range on the following abilities: Tactical surge. Ion burst(and the same for the PT) to 20 Meters. There's no reason not to give them some range. Also High Impact bolt, Cryo Grenade, Arty blitz(later point wants this PoS ability replaced), Flak Shell should all be 20 meter ranged. And Explosive surge should be a 10 Meter ranged ability, not 5m. This would help A LOT with the problems the VG/PT have. Least they would have a bit of range before being forced into combat.

-Also the following abilities should be pulled over to the VG/PT: Responsive safeguards/Echoing Deterrence. Why the DPS version of the Trooper/BH gets an amazing TANKING ability but the tank versions do not is asinine.

-Also the VG/PT should get: Kolto surge/Adrenaline surge and Trauma Stabilizers/Regulators. Again some great mid heals that the tanks really need to sustain themselves, but do not get access to.

-Also renewing my suggestion that Death from above and Mortar volley be taken away from the merv/comm(since they don't need them to begin with since they have hail of bolts) and returned to the VG/PT. Get rid of those god awful replacements.

-Allow VG/PT to use Techblades. I mean if you want them in Melee combat, may as well give them a melee tool to fight with.

-Along with the previous point, I would like to propose the following. That Advanced prototype/Tactics, be tuned around using the rifle, and Plasma/Pyro be tuned around using the Tech blade. This makes the Plasma/Pyro the up close and personal melee ranged path, while Tactics/AP is the more ranged version. And shield spec should be able to use either or. Also with the PT they use their gauntlet for all the off hand attacks, and the trooper since we see in the cut scenes with that hand blaster, than can now be actually put in and used for all the ion attacks.

-Also with allowing Tech blades to be used, in chapter 12 of KOTFE instead of making that stupid force blaster, we could for instead of tech blade, we are allowed to make force-imbued blades. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force-imbued_blade This is a lost technique but it would make way more sense to have an ancient force weapon imbued with our essence helped by Marr and Shan to make it. Makes way more sense than a stupid force blaster. (I'd also throw in for the Agents, instead of a stupid force rifle, allow them to make a force knife. Makes more sense if you ask me. I mean wouldn't it be BA to see the agent pulling out a force shiv and fighting blade to blade with Arcann?)

I think these changes with a slight increase in overall damage for PT/VG would allow the class to come back to the forefront and actually be of some real value and use and be a better tank, or fighter at melee or mid range.
Pretty, so what do we blow up first? -Wraith Squadron Motto
Ebon Hawk
Skiratta Legacy

Cuiwe's Avatar


Cuiwe
04.02.2017 , 07:55 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
We all know that PT and VG are just completely borked right now. Here are my ideas to give the VG a leg up and help him with surviving longer and giving more tools to get the job done.

-Jetstorm/Storm, those abiliites are currently at lvl 59 which is a frakking JOKE. There is no reason EA can give for giving the one ability that allows the VG/PT tanks to close all the way at lvl 59. If anything Harpoon should be made the lvl 59 ability(since it's mostly useless anyways) and Storm should move down to lvl 10. No reason jedi get their close abilities out the gate but VG/PT do not? THE HELL?!

-Up the range on the following abilities: Tactical surge. Ion burst(and the same for the PT) to 20 Meters. There's no reason not to give them some range. Also High Impact bolt, Cryo Grenade, Arty blitz(later point wants this PoS ability replaced), Flak Shell should all be 20 meter ranged. And Explosive surge should be a 10 Meter ranged ability, not 5m. This would help A LOT with the problems the VG/PT have. Least they would have a bit of range before being forced into combat.

-Also the following abilities should be pulled over to the VG/PT: Responsive safeguards/Echoing Deterrence. Why the DPS version of the Trooper/BH gets an amazing TANKING ability but the tank versions do not is asinine.

-Also the VG/PT should get: Kolto surge/Adrenaline surge and Trauma Stabilizers/Regulators. Again some great mid heals that the tanks really need to sustain themselves, but do not get access to.

-Also renewing my suggestion that Death from above and Mortar volley be taken away from the merv/comm(since they don't need them to begin with since they have hail of bolts) and returned to the VG/PT. Get rid of those god awful replacements.

-Allow VG/PT to use Techblades. I mean if you want them in Melee combat, may as well give them a melee tool to fight with.

-Along with the previous point, I would like to propose the following. That Advanced prototype/Tactics, be tuned around using the rifle, and Plasma/Pyro be tuned around using the Tech blade. This makes the Plasma/Pyro the up close and personal melee ranged path, while Tactics/AP is the more ranged version. And shield spec should be able to use either or. Also with the PT they use their gauntlet for all the off hand attacks, and the trooper since we see in the cut scenes with that hand blaster, than can now be actually put in and used for all the ion attacks.

-Also with allowing Tech blades to be used, in chapter 12 of KOTFE instead of making that stupid force blaster, we could for instead of tech blade, we are allowed to make force-imbued blades. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force-imbued_blade This is a lost technique but it would make way more sense to have an ancient force weapon imbued with our essence helped by Marr and Shan to make it. Makes way more sense than a stupid force blaster. (I'd also throw in for the Agents, instead of a stupid force rifle, allow them to make a force knife. Makes more sense if you ask me. I mean wouldn't it be BA to see the agent pulling out a force shiv and fighting blade to blade with Arcann?)

I think these changes with a slight increase in overall damage for PT/VG would allow the class to come back to the forefront and actually be of some real value and use and be a better tank, or fighter at melee or mid range.
1. Agreed. But I don't feel that Jet Charge / Storm are necessary by themselves, it's the point 2 that drives Vanguards into the ground. Imo, a Leap should be reserved for JK classes to make them feel unique...only other that I can sanction is Infil Shadow and that's because it is Zealous Leap's look alike tbh(not Force Leap's).

2. Completely agreed with everything here.

3. Mercs have WHAT? I wasn't even aware of that...****. That is like FD + Guarded by the Force, lol. And just watch that ability getting nerfed into oblivion instead of it being slightly nerfed and put where it belongs(Vanguard). COMPLETELY AGREE

4. I mean, don't Mercs have off heals? Why do they need all of that ****? Please don't tell me that Fool Irving plays a Scoundrel and a Merc...those should be on a Vanguard, yes.

5. Kinda agreed. I don't like Powertech version one bit, but am a big fan of Vanguard's Artillery Blitz. This is difficult for me to say. I'd just remove the refrigerator from PT's version and everything would be <3

6. Not really, no. I don't see why(this applies to all the Techblade points). Because you have two versions of Vanguard(imo): very short range - melee(10m) fighter that utilizes Jet Charge / Storm and here the Techblade could make sense, but it isn't really necessary. The other version is 1,0-3,0 version that has 20-30 metre range on abilities and hence doesn't need a melee weapon. I'd opt for the latter imo. But then again I'd:

7. Remove all Vanguard melee abilities and normalize the range to 15-20 metres. Stockstrike is now a part of a tank spec and gotten there EXCLUSIVELY. Other disciplines get a ranged replacement for Stockstrike(like, say, Hammer Shot? Does that sound blunt enough? Replace the AA's name from Hammer Shot to Rifle Volley or something). I mean, 1,0-5,0 Vanguard was super fun, i loved it. It was great. 5,0+ is like... .

I don't know on which substance they were when they were designing 5,0, but I don't care to know either. Everything I care is that they either give it up or change the dealer, because whatever they were using was some B.A.D. S.H.I.T. !
"I am not in this for politics, nor the wanton destruction, hell not even for credits. I have chosen this way of life because of the hunt and because it was pushed onto me on some ugly slimeball called a "pearl" and Honour bound me to this path ever onwards" Caelestinus

Vember's Avatar


Vember
04.03.2017 , 08:50 AM | #3
I agree with everything except using Techblades - do not want. I don't care what the actual range is, i'd still much rather use a blaster rifle.

Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
7. Remove all Vanguard melee abilities and normalize the range to 15-20 metres. Stockstrike is now a part of a tank spec and gotten there EXCLUSIVELY. Other disciplines get a ranged replacement for Stockstrike(like, say, Hammer Shot? Does that sound blunt enough? Replace the AA's name from Hammer Shot to Rifle Volley or something). I mean, 1,0-5,0 Vanguard was super fun, i loved it. It was great. 5,0+ is like... .

This ^^

Balameb's Avatar


Balameb
04.03.2017 , 12:05 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post

7. Remove all Vanguard melee abilities and normalize the range to 15-20 metres. Stockstrike is now a part of a tank spec and gotten there EXCLUSIVELY. Other disciplines get a ranged replacement for Stockstrike(like, say, Hammer Shot? Does that sound blunt enough? Replace the AA's name from Hammer Shot to Rifle Volley or something). I mean, 1,0-5,0 Vanguard was super fun, i loved it. It was great. 5,0+ is like... .
While i agree with most changes proposed i think that this one ^^ is Key. Tank spec even has an easy slot for that skill in the tree by removing Translocate/Transpose. Very little use, could be added to general PT/VG, if it is useless for one spec, can be useless for all, does not matter

KainrycKarr's Avatar


KainrycKarr
04.05.2017 , 12:59 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
While i agree with most changes proposed i think that this one ^^ is Key. Tank spec even has an easy slot for that skill in the tree by removing Translocate/Transpose. Very little use, could be added to general PT/VG, if it is useless for one spec, can be useless for all, does not matter
**** no, Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade are the coolest PT abilities, and the only reason I bother trying to play PT still.

Keep the range changes, but give PT the defensive tools to stay alive in that range like Maras and Jugs have.
Kain'ryk Karr - Level 60 Powertech<Clan Adenn>

Vember's Avatar


Vember
04.05.2017 , 01:57 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by KainrycKarr View Post
**** no, Rocket Punch and Retractable Blade are the coolest PT abilities, and the only reason I bother trying to play PT still.

Keep the range changes, but give PT the defensive tools to stay alive in that range like Maras and Jugs have.
Really? I think Rocket Punch is one of the gayest animations i've ever seen. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if that went away.

Maybe if it were an actual punch and not a ballet twirl

forestguard's Avatar


forestguard
04.05.2017 , 08:15 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Cuiwe View Post
7. Remove all Vanguard melee abilities and normalize the range to 15-20 metres. Stockstrike is now a part of a tank spec and gotten there EXCLUSIVELY. Other disciplines get a ranged replacement for Stockstrike(like, say, Hammer Shot? Does that sound blunt enough? Replace the AA's name from Hammer Shot to Rifle Volley or something). I mean, 1,0-5,0 Vanguard was super fun, i loved it. It was great. 5,0+ is like... .
I wouldn't necessarily say normalize across all 3 specs. I'd prefer they start out closer range and give plasma and tactics defense or range buffs accordingly in their specs. I really don't want the balance nightmare of a >=15m range tank, because you either have to:

A) Make them deal more damage to compensate for generating oess threat than KC Shadows of Defense Guardians, but they would need a whole lot of damage, at which point they would just start crowding out other DPS and we're back to people calling them OP.

B) increase threat generation if the tank spec for the range, but then why not just stay in melee range for even greater threat generation, which then could push out other tanks because it'd be incredibly hard to out tank a Shield Specialist VG, even if they are the off-tank.

Which then leads C) lower defenses to make sure they stay at range, but then why not just make them pure DPS.

Which is why I say make range buffs spec specific, so we don't break the tanks.

My personal thoughts are:
- buff The range of Tactics and swap Gut for a ranged variant. Allows lower defense as a result if necessary.
- buff Plasma's damage, then buff either defense or range. I think the class would be interesting as a closer ranged AoE spec (not necessarily a DoT spec, but could be), but I've only play it on rare occasions, so take with a grain of salt.
- If buffing range of both, make Storm tank exclusive (make the specs less reliant on Stockstrike, considering people freaked out when BW removed that and ion wave from Commandos), or figure out a different type of gapcloser if leaps are for guardians. Regardless, tanks need an earlier gapcloser..as opposed to lvl 59....
Soli Deo Gloria - Tank main on Ebon Hawk:

Xukol - 70 Darkness Assassin ** Xayis - 70 Kinetic Combat Shadow * Linium (current) - 70 Shield Specialist Vanguard

JLazarillo's Avatar


JLazarillo
04.05.2017 , 08:23 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Vember View Post
I agree with everything except using Techblades - do not want. I don't care what the actual range is, i'd still much rather use a blaster rifle.
For Vanguards, keeping the rifle makes sense, because they use it in their attack animations. For PTs, it'd be kind of cool, but since exactly one spec has exactly one ability that actually uses their equipped weapon rotationally, I feel like you could give them pretty much anything and it wouldn't make a difference.

I'd also hate to see Rocket Punch go...I'm still sore that I can't use it on a Merc anymore, just for pure style points. Jetpack-Ryu-Ken is glorious.

crackerchocolate's Avatar


crackerchocolate
04.21.2017 , 02:38 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
-Also renewing my suggestion that Death from above and Mortar volley be taken away from the merv/comm(since they don't need them to begin with since they have hail of bolts) and returned to the VG/PT. Get rid of those god awful replacements.
There is no logic to that change. You want to remove DfA and MV from ranged classes leaving them only one reliable aoe when Vanguards and Powertechs already have 3 aoe abilities. It's one thing if you want the animation, the damage output, and/or range back but stripping one class of an ability and not even replacing it? That is just never going to happen.

If there is something that needs to change its the cell/heat cost to some of the abilities. Compared to the other non force using classes VG and PT seemed to have gotten screwed. I play Plasmatech/Pyrotech. The other day on my Pyrotech I noticed that of the 7 abilities used in the rotation only two cost less then 15 heat (Scorch 10 and Immolate 12) and Searing Wave cost 20. When compared to the other classes VG/PT have to rely on the basic attacks more frequently for energy management. Gunslingers/Snipers and Commandos/Mercs have channeled abilities that slow their consumption. Scoundrels/Operatives don't use a single move over 15 energy and depending on spec can even have a move the costs nothing. These classes do not need to heavily rely on a basic attack for energy management and in some cases don't even need their basic attack. VG/PT since 5.0 can't even complete a full rotation without heavily relying on a basic attack.

KainrycKarr's Avatar


KainrycKarr
04.26.2017 , 01:07 AM | #10
What you're suggesting just creates a second mercenary.

PT is melee, and it's fine that way.

All PT needs is some defensiveness.

Give us back 5% heal per shoulder cannon missile, drop its ICD from 1.5 back to 1 sec where it was originally, and give us Kolto Surge. Problem solved.

But take away Rocket Punch and Retractable blade? The two coolest abilities PT has? Why the **** would you do that?
Kain'ryk Karr - Level 60 Powertech<Clan Adenn>