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The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
The Jedi Knight, and Sith Warrior classes need a huge buff.
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Mrcod's Avatar


Mrcod
01.14.2012 , 12:30 PM | #501
Quote: Originally Posted by AdamChattaway View Post
I agree i play a Jedi Guardian and its so weak, bioware take note NOW and fix this, you have 3 months sub and if you do a rift then shame on you, shame on bioware and i will never give ea or bioware my money again because it seems like you dont care, this is an issue which is old from beta now and still you ignore and ignore and ignore WELL LISTEN TO US AND FIX THE DAM CLASS.
lol no. Learn to play. Guardian is great in pvp. I'm regularly top 3 in warzones in damage, kills and protection on mine.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
01.14.2012 , 01:15 PM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by Pylseprinsen View Post
Someone mentioned that constructive posts might be helpful, so here's my view on the matter:

First of all, I don't have enough in-depth understanding of the different classes to say anything for certain, but my impression so far is that crowd-control is easily available to pretty much all classes, but pretty much everyone only have one anti-CC ability and it has a long cooldown and doesn't offer any decent immunity.

I play a Jedi Sage with ranged damage specialization, so even though being rooted and snared means melee will kill me a lot easier, I can still do damage back because my abilities are ranged. On the other hand, I have so many roots / snare / stun opportunities available throughout a fight that melee classes very often end up being in range only a fraction of the time. Obviously, if they were always able to get in range all the time then I'd die all the time because they definitely do kill me if given half a chance, but maybe it's too easy for me to keep them at range right now compared to how much more damage they do when they get close.

While I feel it is very important that RDPS are able to avoid MDPS, otherwise you very quickly end up with a class rock-scissors-paper, it might be a little too easy for the time being. There's certainly a lot of crowd control available to us right now, and while this is good because it makes the game a lot more interesting and requires more cunning during battle, I think that it's a little too difficult for melee classes to stay in range due to the heavy presence of crowd-control.

It's naturally very hard to come up with a solution here that doesn't **** either archetype, I have the impression that Shadows do decent due force pull and slow, but on my Guardian alt I haven't really seen much of this. Like some guys mentioned, I don't think making Force Push clear the Leap cooldown is a very good solution. If anything manages to get a decent range from you and keeps moving, pushing them away is too likely to put them out of your range, also the "stun" effect of the two abilities have no synergy if used on top of eachother, so that's a loss. Would possibly a better option be to let Force Leap have a small CC immunity, say 3-5 seconds? This basically means that if anyone being Force Leaped panics and spam their CC on you the instant they get rid of the stun, then they've ****ed up meaningfully (it would have no effect) and it gives you a better chance to kill them. On the other hand, if they keep their cool, then you have at least 2-3 abilities you can get off before the can get rid of you, which means that it could be possible to build some offensive cycles around your Force Leap cooldown.

I think that would be pretty good, but probably not "devastating" in any respect, which makes it a small change for the better as part of an ongoing effort to carefully improvee the class without upsetting the "balance" too much.

Anyways, this could be entirely off the mark, but it's a suggestion and some food for afterthought. Hope you enjoy it

- K'Thuun Ombooso
In honor of the quoted post I will try to do the same:

I have a levl 50 Jedi Sentinel. I seem to have an easier time with the fights that many Sentinels have severe issues with (I managed to kill them all without too many deaths, and some of them without any deaths, but I am also way over-leveled) and I usually end within the top 3 in DPS in Warzones for my team.

This indicates that I don't need to, quote, "learn to play" as I obviously do know how.

Now, with that prerequisite out of the way.

My problems with the Sentinel are a little more complicated than "it is obviously X" ability, but I will try to summarize them here and note which ones I think the devs can do anything about.

These issues are in no particular order:

1. Lack of a Push or Pull Mechanic.

The Jedi Sentinel (and Sith Marauder) is the only class in the game that lacks this mechanic. This is a severe tactical disadvantage in Huttball as pushing and pulling is often times more advantageous than doing actual damage. In the map, Void Star, this can be used only on section two to score kills by knocking enemies off of the bridge. This means, as a Sentinel, entering the bridge area ever, either on Defense or Offense is a highly risky proposition as it can result in an instant kill on me by my enemies, an instant kill that I cannot return the favor of mind you.

Possible dev fixes:

A) Give Sentinel a Push/Pull mechanic.
This would, in my opinion, be the best option.

B) Give the Sentinel a resistance to the Push/Pull mechanic.
This could be problematic as some classes seem to need these despite having other abilities to perform the function of shutting down gap closers.

C) Allow us to choose simply to not participate in maps that emphasize the Push/Pull mechanic.
This is the worst fix, in my opinion, because it literally tells me not to even play certain content. It, however, would alleviate a lot of headaches for me.

2. Lack of an instant Stun.

Every other class has some kind of instant cast stun which allows them a few seconds to deal out heavy damage with their attacks while their opponent is rendered helpless. We have Force Stasis, which not only stuns our enemy, but stuns us as well. We need an instant form of melee CC in the same vein as the Imperial Operative.

3. Too many "hard counters" exist for our gap closers.

It seems every class that we need to close with has methods to widen the gap that are better than our gap closers.

If we have a leap, they have an ability that not only shuts off our leap, but then if we get into range they can knock us back.

We have a snare, they snare us back but then they have a run speed buff that over powers our snare.

We have a run speed buff, they have a better run speed buff.

It honestly seems, BioWare, like you were so concerned with making sure each class had a way to deal with the Jedi that you forgot that we need ways to kill those classes. They seem to have a perfect counter to every ability we have. This is the biggest issue, they have counters to us, but we don't have counters to them.

I can't counter stealth from Operatives for example. I can't counter their stuns. They however can counter my leap. They can counter my snare. They can even heal to counter my damage.

When we look at Sentinel vs Operative it paints the perfect picture. There are many who feel the Operative is more powerful in melee than a Sentinel. That, to me, is a serious flaw.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind

Dragongit's Avatar


Dragongit
01.14.2012 , 02:13 PM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh View Post
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2. Lack of an instant Stun.

Every other class has some kind of instant cast stun which allows them a few seconds to deal out heavy damage with their attacks while their opponent is rendered helpless. We have Force Stasis, which not only stuns our enemy, but stuns us as well. We need an instant form of melee CC in the same vein as the Imperial Operative.

Not technically true, we have Awe which is an AOE stun ability, granted it only incapacitates the enemy for 6 seconds, and is easily broken by a single tap.
DECEMBER CREW

raelimar's Avatar


raelimar
01.14.2012 , 02:22 PM | #504
Quote: Originally Posted by ProfessorWalsh
1. Lack of a Push or Pull Mechanic.

The Jedi Sentinel (and Sith Marauder) is the only class in the game that lacks this mechanic.
Not true. Operative/Scoundrel are also without a push/pull ability.

AdamChattaway's Avatar


AdamChattaway
01.14.2012 , 02:53 PM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by Mrcod View Post
lol no. Learn to play. Guardian is great in pvp. I'm regularly top 3 in warzones in damage, kills and protection on mine.
erm im pretty sure i know how to play, the fact is i get 3 shotted by a imperial agent or zapped to death in seconds by an inquisitor is a different story, some people...
Electronic Arts, Inc...Nowhere else in the galaxy will you find such a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

ddayyy's Avatar


ddayyy
01.14.2012 , 03:49 PM | #506
About the Ilum level 50 mobs. I was having problems with them on my Scoundrel as well, I was wiping much more often than pre-Ilum. Those mobs are much tougher compared to your gear than pre-Ilum mobs (comparing to same level ofc). So it's not only your class that has problems there ... it's just that the level 50 mobs are generally tougher compared to standard geared same level character than previous level mobs.

Ghengis_John's Avatar


Ghengis_John
01.14.2012 , 04:03 PM | #507
As somebody with a lvl 48 Jedi Guardian and a lvl 30 shadow I have to report the shadow has always had an easier time with everything. Dramatically so. There's something to be said for skill, and putting in the effort to make an underpowered and overly complicated character viable to play. Then again there's the question of why you should even bother when a better, simpler alternative is available. Unfortunately for me I like my jedi knight more story wise so it's what I want to play. If bioware would do something about the defensive animation lock down that would go a long way towards helping the situation imo.

Radomptica's Avatar


Radomptica
01.14.2012 , 04:54 PM | #508
Hello, Bioware!
I am a 50 lvl marauder and just wanted to say that we actually need 3 things to be happy:
-continuous stun ability or just more lasting invisibility to have a chance to sometimes get away from danger like all other classes
-force push
-more robes with capes !! I mean, ok if you know how to play, even without heavy armor you are very viable (Danger even makes things more fun (c) etc) but without cool armor you are not viable at all, because your spirit is broken when you look like a very sad dude (or sometimes cyborg) from 80s. Ardent Blade stuff is ok, but it's not enough really.
So, I guess all that have been mentioned already. Just wanted to add my part and maybe when you implement this people in chat will stop to say all your love goes to juggs. Or maybe not.
Still thank you

revial's Avatar


revial
01.15.2012 , 12:18 AM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by getdownsb View Post
I'm also quite confused as to why the tank spec'ed juggernauts are able to do more damage then the marauders.
This is quite possibly the stupidest comment in this entire thread.

ProfessorWalsh's Avatar


ProfessorWalsh
01.15.2012 , 12:22 AM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragongit View Post
Not technically true, we have Awe which is an AOE stun ability, granted it only incapacitates the enemy for 6 seconds, and is easily broken by a single tap.
Awe is not a stun, it is a mez.

A stun is not broken on damage.
"There is no room for compromise. We walk the path of the light side, or we fall into darkness. There is no gray area, Ben."
~ Jedi Grand Master Luke Skywalker (P. 187 FotJ, Book II: Omen)
Host of the Jedi Council stream also author of From the Journal of Val Starwind