. . . Does it really matter about first companions?

 

By that logic: Does it really matter about any of it?

 

I'm sure that the BW:A team does read this thread (even if only the Community Team). What I'm not sure of - in fact, what I'm convinced of absolutely isn't the case - is that what we say here has any impact at all on developer work regarding SGRAs.

 

Think back to the Guild Summit. Options for community input into SGRAs weren't discussed (at all). On the contrary, they stated in clear English that they already have plans for who will be made to have SGRAs (after making a rather snide joke about whether people ask about 'that' or not). Why does anyone think that the slightest thing we say here makes any difference at all? They won't even post responses here regarding the fact that they have no further information to give us. I very much doubt 'your feedback is being taken into account' is anywhere on the developer radar regarding SGRAs.

 

No, I think their decisions about this are all internal and probably all already made. Numbers be damned, equality be damned, fans and players and concerned parties be damned. They may care about putting SGRAs into the game but the blatant six-month periods of absolute silence show that it's highly likely that they have zero interest in what our opinions on the matter might be. If they have more than zero interest they haven't indicated it. They've said they do read these threads; reading a thread isn't the same as taking the feedback therein into account.

 

This is all theory-crafting, all conceptualising for no real point other than to pass the time. There's no real reason not to discuss all of this stuff and it keeps our brains working, but I'm yet to see anything that even hints at convincing me that out concerns are being taken into account. I think BW:A will definitely put it in, but they'll do so in their own time and on their own terms.

 

They have said, from what I've heard (though I don't have a direct quote) that they'll be disregarding the clamour caused by 'moral advocacy groups' (don't get me started on that hypocrisy). But what makes any of us think that they'll be giving the pro-SGRA crowd's opinions and feedback any more weight?

Edited August 22, 2012 by Kioma

. . . Does it really matter about first companions? You pick up your first three companions fairly quickly. For every class two out of the first three companions (not counting the ships droid) can be romanced, and the first companion mission is a 30-something level mission. I don't think you can even pull off all the missions to fully romance a companion until like level 45.

 

I've always thought it had to be pretty late in the game when they decided to pull SGR. Several of the companions don't have SGR subtext, it is just plain text you can't do anything with. Personally I think Vette with a female SW is the most blatant about this, but I haven't played through all of the classes to know if anyone actually tops her.

 

Please look at my post again, and the one of mine preceeding it, for context. That was a purely hypothetical "what if". As far as subtext, what counts? Lots of people say Corso doesn't strike them as "that type". Then again, many people I know have told me that I don't strike them as "that type" either.

 

The devs and writers may not take any cues from here, true. But what I think we can be confident of is that The Powers That Be do know that this content is a big deal to some not inconsiderable portion of the community. If nothing else, I believe our performance in the Q&A was an adequate demonstration of that.

 

But as Kioma has said, we can't be complacent. There should be no reason for them to look and be able to say "no one really cares about this." So, while I am confining my input to this thread as requested for the time being, I certainly won't hesitate to say a word or two in the next thread that arises on General Discussion because the originator of that thread has no idea this one is here.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Uluain

Think back to the Guild Summit. Options for community input into SGRAs weren't discussed (at all). On the contrary, they stated in clear English that they already have plans for who will be made to have SGRAs (after making a rather snide joke about whether people ask about 'that' or not).

 

Yeah, that was a bit irritating. This thread has reached the limit around 6 times already. Either that was poor sarcasm on their part or complete cluelessness.

Yeah, that was a bit irritating. This thread has reached the limit around 6 times already. Either that was poor sarcasm on their part or complete cluelessness.

 

I think it was actually about our tactical strike on the Q&A thread in the weeks leading up to that.

 

You would think they'd remember what a nuisance we can be when necessary.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Uluain

. . . Does it really matter about first companions? You pick up your first three companions fairly quickly. For every class two out of the first three companions (not counting the ships droid) can be romanced, and the first companion mission is a 30-something level mission. I don't think you can even pull off all the missions to fully romance a companion until like level 45.

 

I don't think you've played all classes on both sides. There are a few classes that are very slow to pick up companions after their first (not counting 2V-R8 or C2-N2) - for example, Sith Inquisitors don't get their second companion (Andronikos) until the end of Tattooine, Imperial Agents don't get their second (Vector) until the end of Alderaan (which may as well be the end of the Act). This goes for a few others too.

I don't think you've played all classes on both sides. There are a few classes that are very slow to pick up companions after their first (not counting 2V-R8 or C2-N2) - for example, Sith Inquisitors don't get their second companion (Andronikos) until the end of Tattooine, Imperial Agents don't get their second (Vector) until the end of Alderaan (which may as well be the end of the Act). This goes for a few others too.

 

:shrug: I said I hadn't done a full play through. I've only finished the story with SW, SI, JK, and Smuggler. I keep meaning to do JC, but I just haven't ever been able to get into the storyline. I didn't know that about IAs though, that is really late for it, just in terms of play balance if nothing else. The few times I've messed with IAs, I always thought Kaliyo kind of sucked as a tank. As for the SI, they pick up Ashara less than five levels after Andronikos (or at least I did), so it balances out a little (also Khem is love which I think makes up for it ).

 

Anyway, my point was that every class has a opposite gender companion that can be romanced by the time they get to the point in the game they can start going on companion quests (mid-30s). I was wrong about that though, I forgot that right now a male JC can't do anything with romance until endgame. Even more annoying is that SGR doesn't seem to be available until a very late stage of the game. I think we're on Act XXVI at this point and still no signs of it yet.

People seem to forget this is EA. BioWare has belonged to EA for so many years now, you are fooling yourself or just plain stupid to think there is any difference between the two. EA is the most hated company in America for a reason. They hate their customers, hate the press, hate video games and hate people in general. They get all the attention they need by TALKING about same-sex relationships without having to actually make any effort or pay voice actors for more work. Every six months the "community action team" comes on here and spins the same lies about "more communication" and "soon this, in the works that." but nothing changes. They do not care and they will not listen to us.

By that logic: Does it really matter about any of it?

 

Not in a positive way.

 

People already playing will continue to do so, or leave, regardless of SGR being added.

 

A few potential players might come on board if SGR features are added.

 

Many potential players will *avoid* the game if SGR features are added.

 

Bioware/EA has little potential upside, and a pretty large potential downside if SGR is added in.

 

If you doubt that this the current state of things ( at lease in the US... ), google Chick-Fil-A, and check out the recent news.

 

I'd like the game to have the features. I just can't see Bioware/EA taking another risk with a game that's already on the edge.

Not in a positive way.

 

People already playing will continue to do so, or leave, regardless of SGR being added.

 

A few potential players might come on board if SGR features are added.

 

Many potential players will *avoid* the game if SGR features are added.

 

Bioware/EA has little potential upside, and a pretty large potential downside if SGR is added in.

 

If you doubt that this the current state of things ( at lease in the US... ), google Chick-Fil-A, and check out the recent news.

 

I'd like the game to have the features. I just can't see Bioware/EA taking another risk with a game that's already on the edge.

 

'A few' and 'many' you just proved you don't know a thing about what has been going on for years, thousands of people on Social.BiOware.com in the many threads I have read have said they never bothered once they played the story and realised they couldn't be properly represented in-game and where are these many? the republican nutjobs? please they wouldn't let anyone play this game at all if they had their way.

 

Also the US of A doesn't encompass the world, conforming to those childish standards of what's allowed (Death, murder and everything else is fine but a ****** here and there, PHONE THE PRESIDENT!), can only ever be a detriment to the gaming industry at large.

This isn't a thread for bashing EA or BioWare -- we can (and do) reflect on how their handling of this content affects us and our appreciation of the game, but in terms of same-gender content EA is an industry leader. Their most popular and mainstream title, the Sims, has always included same-gender romance options. It's not as big a risk as you think.

'A few' and 'many' you just proved you don't know a thing about what has been going on for years, thousands of people on Social.BiOware.com in the many threads I have read have said they never bothered once they played the story and realised they couldn't be properly represented in-game and where are these many? the republican nutjobs? please they wouldn't let anyone play this game at all if they had their way.

 

Also the US of A doesn't encompass the world, conforming to those childish standards of what's allowed (Death, murder and everything else is fine but a ****** here and there, PHONE THE PRESIDENT!), can only ever be a detriment to the gaming industry at large.

 

Case in point with that censorship.

People seem to forget this is EA. BioWare has belonged to EA for so many years now, you are fooling yourself or just plain stupid to think there is any difference between the two. EA is the most hated company in America for a reason. They hate their customers, hate the press, hate video games and hate people in general. They get all the attention they need by TALKING about same-sex relationships without having to actually make any effort or pay voice actors for more work. Every six months the "community action team" comes on here and spins the same lies about "more communication" and "soon this, in the works that." but nothing changes. They do not care and they will not listen to us.

 

This line of thought seems to completely neglect to mention that three of EA's biggest franchises - The Sims, Mass Effect, and Dragon Age - have all included same gender relations before TOR was even released, not to mention being known as one of the most supportive game companies out there when it comes to gay rights. You can say that it's "all just for the good press", but I can also say that about any humanitarian effort in the world; it's a hollow accusation that is impossible to prove or disprove.

 

The "worst company in America" title was the result of a bunch of upset gamers flocking over from the ending controversy of Mass Effect 3 and voting them down for "ruining Bioware." For reference, they beat out Bank of America for that title. It holds absolutely no weight outside of whiny gamer circle-frenzies who are upset about shady business practices.

 

Any blame for this feature not being included should fall on Bioware and Bioware alone until we have information that indicates otherwise. They said the feature was going to be in, which means both EA and LucasArts had already given the green-light on it. Now, for what logical reason would EA be blocking this feature intentionally after doing so? It's just comically villainous and makes no sense, given their track record. It's far more likely that Bioware is just dropping the ball on them, just as they are doing with everything else.

 

I'm as upset as anyone about their lack of inclusion so far, but put it into perspective; we're nearly one year into the game's life, and they *still* have yet to get in simple features like chat bubbles or a hood toggle, despite having them "nearly done" at the guild summit back in March. I imagine it'll take even longer to get out actual content that isn't just cut-and-paste missions like they've released so far.

Actually, they said that chat bubbles while definitely still in the works had presented unexpected difficulties that would need to be addressed. And there are other threads for for discussing chat bubbles, hood toggles, fat butt robes etc. As this is the only thread in which discussion of same-gender options for companion romances can be discussed, can we stick to that here?

 

We have seen an up-spike in player interest on this subject not just here but with other players who were unaware of this thread. Some occasional spillover into General Discussion was gently curtailed but any thread that runs to twenty pages overnight is certainly going to attract notice.

 

I am confident that those who can approve the release of new information are being informed that the natives are restless. I would hope that we can count on precedent regarding this topic, where information has been provided, however laconically, at roughly six-month intervals. If so, then we are due for some sort of word early next month.

 

That is probably me projecting, however. The developer panel at the Guild Summit pretty much told us not to hold our breath waiting for more news. Given the uncertainties raised by changes at BioWare Austin since, as well as by the announcement of a free-to-play option and a focus on group rather than solo content, it does seem that some sort of word would be opportune.

 

I am confident this is still on the way, that our interest has been noted and that our concerns are being related to the proper persons. Also, that six months is not too short a time to reasonably expect another bit of news. Here's hoping.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Uluain

'A few' and 'many' you just proved you don't know a thing about what has been going on for years, thousands of people on Social.BiOware.com in the many threads I have read have said they never bothered once they played the story and realised they couldn't be properly represented in-game and where are these many? the republican nutjobs? please they wouldn't let anyone play this game at all if they had their way.

 

Also the US of A doesn't encompass the world, conforming to those childish standards of what's allowed (Death, murder and everything else is fine but a ****** here and there, PHONE THE PRESIDENT!), can only ever be a detriment to the gaming industry at large.

 

I agree with you. The USA does't speak for everyone. And the small, vocal minority of people that wail and cry over this issue shouldn't be as influential as it is. But, you have to face reality. Several of the larger chains in the US are controlled by small minded individuals. They won't hesistate to pull this game off the shelf, if it offends their sensibilites.

 

I'm not saying I agree. I'm just pointing out the hystia that *still* goes on in the US ( and, face it, the largest number of subs are from here, currently ) whenever someone sees two people kissing, and they're of the same gender.

 

The world isn't perfect. I doubt Bioware/EA will risk alienating *any* potential *new* subs by adding in SGR.

This is wandering dangerously off-topic. EA and BioWare's commitment to this sort of content is a matter of record. And countervailing against Chik-fil-a we see mainstream companies like JC Penney and Nabisco supporting a more diverse notion of society and families, without worrying over losing business.

 

BioWare has said that they will add this content, and that moral disapproval from some sectors of society won't change that. I don't think that this is really germane to our discussion at this point. And Walmart won't pull a game for same-gender content if they can make money by selling it. I know they continue to sell the Sims.

 

Yes, the issue is controversial. No, that hasn't prevented EA or BioWare from including same-gender content in other flagship products. I trust them to continue to do so. Or are you trying to find a reason to encourage them to abandon this content? It is how you are coming across.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Uluain

Actually, they said that chat bubbles while definitely still in the works had presented unexpected difficulties that would need to be addressed. And there are other threads for for discussing chat bubbles, hood toggles, fat butt robes etc. As this is the only thread in which discussion of same-gender options for companion romances can be discussed, can we stick to that here?

 

I think my point was a bit lost in my genuine distaste for the game as of late. I didn't intend to try and shift it over to "well, why aren't these in first, huh?" so much as just pointing out that silence and slow implementation doesn't instantly deduce that EA is somehow stonewalling the same-gender content just to twirl their collective mustaches. I was simply looking to illustrate that the delay in any news was not in anyway unique to this feature lately (though since launch, we have been stuck on the slower end of updates), and as such, we should probably view it through the lens of incompetence instead of malice.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Raiellyn

I think my point was a bit lost in my genuine distaste for the game as of late. I didn't intend to try and shift it over to "well, why aren't these in first, huh?" so much as just pointing out that silence and slow implementation doesn't instantly deduce that EA is somehow stonewalling the same-gender content just to twirl their collective mustaches. I was simply looking to illustrate that the delay in any news was not in anyway unique to this feature lately (though since launch, we have been stuck on the slower end of updates), and as such, we should probably view it through the lens of incompetence instead of malice.

 

I see.

 

I don't attribute it to malice, certainly, or even incompetence so much as obliviousness to just how this is coming across to us here. To them, it likely seems something like chat-bubbles, which people do want, and which I understand were tried in Beta which I was not around for.

 

I think this content is fundamentally different, because without it the game really does seem awfully heterocentric, inasmuch as romantic opportunities with the opposite gender are to a degree highlighted, and have even been the subject of fan polls on Facebook and so on.

 

Now, I trust the Comm Team when they say they are doing what they can, as little as I understand why they do not actually say so here where it would be easy to find. I don't especially mind playing middle-man to repost a PM, but it is odd that I have to. But I give them the benefit of the doubt that they have made our continued interest and growing restlessness known.

 

If chat bubbles or sittable chairs or hood toggles are done first, and implemented first, that's what happens and I don't object to that. I do object to those who do have information they could supply not doing so, or those who may be making them stay quiet making them stay quiet. Bad enough this was treated as second-class content from the start -- and it was. To single it out for isolation in one thread makes sense as far as patrolling for hateful posts. But this extremely sideways way of keeping us informed that there is no new information, and the lack of information...

 

Well, all of this together, on this issue alone of all issues, really does look, well, bad. I hope that the Powers That Be understand that, and can respond in a way to at least mitigate the prejudicial appearances.

A few potential players might come on board if SGR features are added.

 

Many potential players will *avoid* the game if SGR features are added.

 

This is a vast assumption with, I am willing to bet, no hard facts to back it up. I think it also misses the entire point of my post which was that I believe EA/BW:A has already made up its mind about SGRAs and how/when/why/for whom they will be implemented. Making brash statements about 'a few' and 'many' players is baseless unless you have something to substantiate it.

Many potential players will *avoid* the game if SGR features are added.

 

Have you ever heard of anyone avoiding the Sims because of this? I haven't. Perhaps a small few would, but I imagine that is about as much of a concern to EA/BioWare as Amish who don't play because they do not care to use the technology.

I am not spending a dime on this game again until after the SGR's are put into action. They chose to do them separately from straight relationships. It would have been smarter and easier to do both at once, period, but they chose not to. Talk is cheap, and cutting and pasting "soon" every six months is even cheaper. I don't care about Warzones, Flashpoints, their stupid looking end game armor or any of the rest of it. The number of posts in these forums asking for SGR's should tell BioEA how many people want this feature, more than any other, and if they choose to put it off I choose to put off any further business with them. Not Microtransactions and not subscription.

The "worst company in America" title was the result of a bunch of upset gamers flocking over from the ending controversy of Mass Effect 3 and voting them down for "ruining Bioware." For reference, they beat out Bank of America for that title. It holds absolutely no weight outside of whiny gamer circle-frenzies who are upset about shady business practices.

 

Sooooo... WestWood, anyone? Remember that great developer that made the best RTS games known to man at the time? Then they partnered with EA to make Earth & Beyond....

 

My point is that EA has a history of ruining developers. When I first heard that EA had bought BioWare, I cringed. Literally physically cringed. I knew it was coming. I hoped that BioWare's quality wouldn't suffer because of it.....

[Gold Five] "Stay on topic!" [/Gold Five]

 

This is not an "EA sucks" thread. I hate reporting posts, but this is veering away from the subject at hand, which is how same-gender romantic content could be implemented. I know that having been over what info we have as long as we have, there isn't a lot of new speculation we can do and, given shake-ups at BioWare and the shift to F2P, the future of this content is uncertain, but every indication is that they have not abandoned it, and it will be in.

I don't think it has been abandoned, or we'd be seeing no encouragement at all from the Comm Team to continue the discussion. Keeping this thread clean takes a lot of work. They wouldn't do that for content that's been abandoned. Either they would tell us it has been or, if they had for some reason to be sneaky and indirect about things (as seems for whatever reason to be the case) they would simply say "Since this is such a divisive subject, and we have no news for you, we're closing this thread. If there are any new developments, discussion can resume."

 

So just from what the Comm Team is doing rather than not doing, I think we can still expect SGRs... at some point.

 

If you feel otherwise, then of course that's your opinion and you have a right to it. But if you do think that there won't be any SGR, ever, then why are you here? Also, your prediction is coming across as a wish for it to be excluded. You know that, right?

Edited August 24, 2012 by Uluain

And speaking of staying on target, apparently Hall Hood is heading up the story team. A thread linking to an interview with him is here on story and lore, but here is a link in case it gets buried.

 

He's also on Twitter. Yes, I gave him a polite (I hope) poke.

I think it has been cancelled because Bioware won't comment on it, if it is cancelled they are keeping quiet in the hopes of retaining subs of the people that would quit over such an announcement. I hope I am wrong because I would like to see SGRA added.