I think two disciplines are missing from the list.

-Lightning Sorcerer (Needs a damage buff). Lightning has been slack on damage and burst forever...

-Juggernaut needs a utility overhaul (or at least combine some utilities)l. Vengeance needs increased/Improved mobility and survival skills (DCDs).

I agree with you on that, but I'd also add Marksman/Sharpshooter, since it's also at the bottom of the DPS charts.

Reducing motion and making MM the "hunker down" spec would help numbers. Having to pick up and move on a double team when CP and IP are blown costs a ton of damage. Making damage viability and mobility opposed to each other isn't good for this spec in PvP. This could be accomplished in tree or with a learnable ability/talent. So it doesn't bounce over to engi.

Engi needs more cost to PP.

Virulence needs mobility. I still think (and people will forever mock me for it) that cull needs to be mobile like blazing bolts. If you do that, it's in a fine place. If you're in a situation where you can't cull, that hurts.

If they did a better job delineating those three, there wouldn't be such a problem with unintended consequences.

Lol, so they are ok with the Operatives doing 11k dps, 1k more than some classes, and considerable more than most?

Well, then its safe to assume that they are buffing the dps of all those classes/specs in the list right? No? This is bull.

The best idea I read so far here was to make a different tree for PVP and PVE. PVP tree activates only when we are in PVP. I also raid A LOT more then I do PVP, so like many I'm tired to pay the bill for PVP'ers.

And I'm not gonna even start with the bs fact that now I HAVE TO do PVP in order to get the best gear.

I play merc IO since the beggining, so I can only talk about them. If you wanna buff dps a little to reach the top classes, without making too many changes, just buff dots (20-30%) including the Thermal detonator burning dot that adds so little atm.

I remember that they nerfed 30% of dots damage from IO in 3.0, it was enough to take them off the top from 5.4dps to 5.2 at the time. So I take it will be the same now. Those changes would take us from 10.7 to 10.9~11, about the same numbers that a sniper and operative have at the moment.

Anyway, you guys probably won't buff anything, but I'm leaving these ideas here just for the record.

Commando

 

Merc must lost the electro net, porpulsion round and the adrenalinę rush! And if diversion is active damage taken is reduce by 25%.

That reduce the dps a lit bit and bring more balance in pvp.

I want to report this I hate it so much lol. Three nerfs? You've got to be kidding.

Rocket punch was amazing and it's sad to have lost it, if they take away another Iconic ability from my main class I will be quite upset. Let's just get rid of DFA while we're at it. When the net first came out I was like heck yes this is an amazing ability for a hunter for RP alone. It's a good ability, but it's cd is too high to consider it OP.

Also why take away propulsion round? Every class has either a gap closer or a 18-20 mobility ability (or Operatives two mini ones), sometimes both. Sorc's are kind of an exception but their mobility is in a good place regardless. No reason to put mercs behind everyone else this is supposed to be about balance.

Also Diversion isn't even a Bounter Hunter/Trooper skill, and 100% DR is crazy. All the abilities that resist/reflect 100% of damage only work for some types of damage, not all. 100% DR would be everything. Also, Diversion lasts for 8 seconds, 10 if you meant to say oil slick. Does this really make sense to you? 8-10 seconds of invincibility, AND prop round, AND Electro net on top of everything native to PTs? And then you worry about adrenal surge? You're trolling. You must be. There's no way you meant these ideas to be taken seriously.

I agree that Lightning needs a damage buff and should most definitely be included on the list.

Lightning/Telekinetics on the other hand needs a boost to its burst potential. This should come in the form of an increase to Thundering Blast and by tweaking all abilities to trigger their forked counterparts 100% of the time during Polarity Shift. Such a design change would concentrate burst potential around Polarity Shift windows.

I disagree. Thundering Blast should not do any more damage than it already does. It's already very destructive to your DPS to delay TB at all, so to weight our damage even further towards TB makes this problem even worse. Damage for lightning needs to be more evenly distributed between the abilities. Since it needs a damage buff, it should be focused on improving the damage of the filler abilities light lightning bolt and shock (increase the discipline crushing darkness thing to a 25-30% damage boost).

I'm not going to go into detailed specifics about which ability needs to be changed etc as I feel that's more appropriate for when you post detailed changes. You did ask which specs need changes which aren't listed and why though.

Lightning needs a buff; its damage output is super low right now. Please address the chain lightning bug/exploit too if you do so as any buff to lightning with the addition of the bug remaining could make it an extremely overpowered spec if people choose to abuse the bug.

Marksmanship needs a buff; again damage is just way too low not too much else to say here.

Vengeance needs a buff; right now it feels like there's nothing vengeance can do which a marauder can't do better. Marauders have stronger defensives, higher sustained, higher burst and similar cleave. I'm not saying homogenize the classes, but give some appeal to playing a juggernaut over a marauder.

Operative dps defensive cooldowns; this class has some great survivability if it chooses to sacrifice dps output to use active defensives. This just isn't fun, it raises ttk in a fight absurdly for both the operative and the opponent (since they're just not taking much damage). Shift some survivability on operatives away from active abilities and into off gcd defensives.

Tanks needs to be brought in line; assassins are just noticeably ahead of powertechs and juggernauts in PvE right now (mainly due to phasing phantasm). I'm not sure where your balance targets for tanks is but either nerf assassins or bring the other two up.

Healing in general is too strong; both in PvE and PvP healing output is too high and maintaining uptime is too easy compared to that of a dps. This has created a huge turtle meta in PvP and trivialised a lot of PvE healing checks. Bringing healing output across the board down a little would be nice.

I believe that from my knowledge of MMO's tart start in what? 88 or 89'. That Nerfs have only caused problems and really created more problems than they're worth.

The best thing to do would be to make the other Classes abilities in line/ more powerful, or just as good as any kind of skills that some say is Overpowered, and stream line the other Classes to match those powerful abilities, but Nerfing has only caused more problems in every MMO i've seen and been around.

It we take the biggest disappointment of probably all Classes, it would be the Pyrotek/Pyrotech of the Mandalorian sub-classes. They are probably the least cared for of all classes? Now, people can say nerf this Class and Nerf that Class. So our Classes can compete. That is a terrible way, and can be a destructive way that only kills other Classes we love to play like Sorcerer and Sage.

Instead we need to streamline other Classes abilities wise, and make them have more power to compete in certain areas of both the PvE and PvP arena. Do this, and this will also close the gaps in Pvp that people complain about.

Nerfing is No longer the right answer, as is streamlining other Classes is the answer in areas that need to be stronger..

I can not believe that you're not buffing Marksman/Sharpshooter. It's the 2nd worse dps in the game!

We all know they can't do them all at once. This MMO, along with all others i know of have tried to do all classes at once and only made things a lot worse, and made the customer/ us wish they hadn't touched anything at all.

I can not believe that you're not buffing Marksman/Sharpshooter. It's the 2nd worse dps in the game!

They are also not buffing the worst dps in the game which doesn't have anywhere near the burst or defensives of marksman so?

Hey folks,

 

As Keith mentioned in the roadmap, we want to start the process of having weekly discussion threads here on the forums. Let's get this started with our first topic, Class changes starting with Game Update 5.3. Let us know what you think of the list! Are these the Disciplines you expected to see? Are any missing and if so which ones and why?

 

The following is each Class/Discipline we are currently looking into changing. By Friday, we will begin posting in-depth threads on exactly what is happening to each Discipline. This will include whether they are being buffed or nerfed and why, along with the specific planned changes. These threads will get posted over a few weeks. Here is the current summer list:

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

In my Opinion there is the Telekinetic / Lightning Sage / Sorc missing. The damage done compared to dot tree is about 200 dps below. Furthermore has the Telekinetic / Lightining Tree the lowest single target dmg overall. you need to know the boss fight and when to do what skill otherwise you've got ~ 800 dps less dmg ( balance / madness got the same problem ). You need to have mind crush ( okay the 10 % dmg buff resulting from mind crush wich is 1 min on the target ) on target to get the best dps out of this class. but mind crush has 10 seconds CD with about 13 % allacrity so fast switch between targets is impossible with full dmg.

Also has the dot tree good enough self heal while burst tree dont have any self heal despite the skills that all of the sages / sorcs has. Although .... the burst trees got no energy problem at all at the moment.

Compared to other clases the burst tree is extremely underperforming. As Example operative/smuggler is at around 11k dps while the burst tree is around 9,3k dps ... thats a differaence for about1,8k dps thats HUGE. Compared to commando / mercenary is the difference about 500 dps.

I can go on with comparing clases against Telekinetic / Lightning tree but it really would be a long list where the sage / sorc is underperforming in burstspec.

• Sorc and Sage
  
  • Madness/Balance
    
  • Corruption/Seer
    

  [*]PT and Vanguard

  • Pyrotech/Plasmatech
    

  [*]Assassin and Shadow

  • Hatred/Serenity
    

  [*]Sniper and Gunslinger

  • Virulence/Dirty Fighting
    
  • Engineering/Saboteur
    

  [*]Merc and Commando

  • Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist
    
  • Arsenal/Gunnery
    

Madness/Balance has resource management and DPS issues; buff DPS and the procs that refund Force.

Corruption/Seer is a bit overpowered; nerf healing slightly (slightly, mind).

Pyrotech/Plasmatech has resource management issues; reduce the heat/energy cost of all of the following abilities by 5:

• Searing Wave/Ion Wave
  
• Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt
  
• Flaming Fist/Shockstrike
  
• Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round
  

and/or introduce additional heat-venting/energy cell-refunding passives.

Hatred/Serenity has DPS issues; buff DPS to make it comparable to Deception/Infiltration.

Virulence/Dirty Fighting has resource management issues; reduce the cost per tick of Cull/Wounding Shots to 4 and the cost of Takedown/Quickdraw and Lethal Shot/Dirty Blast by 5 each. Alternatively, make Lethal Takedown/Dirty Shot additionally make the next Takedown/Quickdraw free.

Engineering/Saboteur has resource management issues; have Imperial Methodology/Insurrection be tied to Series of Shots/Speed Shot ticks, not Cluster Bomb/Contingency Charge detonations.

Innovative Ordnance/Assault Specialist has DoT-spreading and severe resource management issues; have Collateral Damage/Explosive Dissemination additionally cause Fusion Missile/Plasma Grenade to activate instantly and spread both the Serrated Shot/Serrated Bolt and Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round DoTs to affected targets. Moreover, either reduce the heat/energy cost of all of the following abilities by 5:

• Explosive Dart/Sticky Grenade
  
• Power Shot/Charged Bolts
  
• Fusion Missile/Plasma Grenade
  
• Incendiary Missile/Incendiary Round
  
• Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique
  
• Serrated Shot/Serrated Bolt
  

or introduce additional heat-venting/energy cell-refunding passives.

Arsenal/Gunnery has levelling issues: revert the change in Level at which Barrage/Curtain of Fire is granted. That is one of the key passives of that Discipline and characters will suffer from resource management issues until they get it.

More generally:

• Revert the change in Level at which Jet Charge/Storm is granted to pre-5.0 (it was at level 24 I believe). It is ludicrous that a melee class should wait so long to receive its leap. (Side note: please fix the bug where leap abilities are wasted because they either:
  
  • fail to move the character
    
  • do so only after several seconds
    
  • move them to just off a ledge (if the target is standing right at the edge), then having them fall to the ground, or
    
  • only move them partially if there’s an obstacle or raised ground in the way.
    

  That can lose Warzones and cause other issues)

  [*]Take Responsive Safeguards/Echoing Deterrence from Mercenaries/Commandos and give it to Powertechs/Vanguards, and impose a rate limit on the healing granted of once per second. Their current DCD selection is abysmal for a class that has a tanking Discipline.

  [*]Entirely remove and replace at least two of the following: Trauma Regulators/Trauma Stabilizers, Kolto Surge/Adrenal Surge, and Energy Rebounder/Reflexive Shield. (I’d rather Mercenaries/Commandos didn’t have 4 lives, thanks.) Additionally, if Trauma Regulators/Trauma Stabilizers remains, reduce the healing granted to 1% of maximum health per stack.

  [*]Give Phase Walk back to Assassins/Shadows, and consider removing them from Sorcerers/Sages. It stands to reason that melee classes should have more mobility than ranged classes, to compensate for their lack of range. It’s the same reasoning that gives melee classes leap abilities.

  [*]Change Saber Reflect so that it also reflects melee attacks, to bring it in line with other reflect abilities.

Madness/Balance...in line with other reflect abilities.

Also reaffirming what people have said about Marksmanship/Sharpshooter and Lightning/Telekinetics.

Eric, i would hope that people would get what i mean by what i say by Stra-lining other Classes anf making some of their Core abilities more powerful. Therefore we wll not have the need to Nerf. Nerfing things for the past...... 30 years almost if we really look at things, have Not progressed the Combat of games better, but i have seen them be Regressed to where people only hate what they are then playing.

To some it may sound heretical and impossible. But, in fact it can be revolutionary in a way that could only benifit all of us Players, the way it should be. If we Streamlined, say Pyrotech's, then we would only be buffing and giving them or other Core Sub Classes bursts in areas of Combat to do more damage, or better Defence and /or Healing abilities that would wipe the Stupid word called "Nerf", and never need to use that word again.

I hope people will get what i'm saying and give it a try.

Please give Powertech/Vanguard tanks some love, pretty please with sprinkles and a cherry on top. They lag behind the two other tank specs significantly at the moment in terms of holding aggro, being damage sponges, lacking any ability to cleanse themselves or temporarily negate/dodge/reflect incoming attacks--and don't get me started on how Commandos/Mercenaries can make better tanks than Vanguards/Powertechs right now, with all their cooldowns...

This ^^^^^

I echo the call for Lightning to be on this list.

I want my flow back, right now its a chore to run through the rotation.

I'll keep it simple and to the point...

..... class balance is a recipe that always has too many cooks with their spoons in the opinion pot. No matter what the studio ultimately does or does not do in a class balance exercise... some people will be pissed off about it. It's the nature of class balance based emotions in MMO forums.

I believe that from my knowledge of MMO's tart start in what? 88 or 89'. That Nerfs have only caused problems and really created more problems than they're worth.

 

The best thing to do would be to make the other Classes abilities in line/ more powerful, or just as good as any kind of skills that some say is Overpowered, and stream line the other Classes to match those powerful abilities, but Nerfing has only caused more problems in every MMO i've seen and been around.

 

It we take the biggest disappointment of probably all Classes, it would be the Pyrotek/Pyrotech of the Mandalorian sub-classes. They are probably the least cared for of all classes? Now, people can say nerf this Class and Nerf that Class. So our Classes can compete. That is a terrible way, and can be a destructive way that only kills other Classes we love to play like Sorcerer and Sage.

 

Instead we need to streamline other Classes abilities wise, and make them have more power to compete in certain areas of both the PvE and PvP arena. Do this, and this will also close the gaps in Pvp that people complain about.

 

Nerfing is No longer the right answer, as is streamlining other Classes is the answer in areas that need to be stronger..

It's not as simple as that. MMOs are balanced for certain enrage timers and TTK values, so you can't just arbitrarily increase everyone's damage and healing, you need to hit certain DPS/HPS values, and that is only possible by nerfing stronger classes and buffing weaker classes.

Wow I'm glad to see you post! I thought you might have quit, and that would have been a tragedy. On a side note, any new news on pets?

Nope, still active and I won't go anywhere anytime soon. Check your PMs, I don't want to go off-topic.

While I am glad you recognize that Madness/Balance needs work (buffs), the fact that you don't think that Lightning/Telekinetics needs buffs ASAP as well is rather disconcerting considering it is performing worse than Madness right now. I think you guys need to take another look at player feedback and class performance if you think otherwise.

 

What about the missing Classes/Disciplines?

If a Class or Discipline is missing from this list it doesn't mean they won't be receiving changes at all, it is just that they are not receiving changes in the near future. In most cases this means that those Classes and/or Disciplines are in an ok place. It doesn't mean they don't need changes (both buff and nerf) but that other Disciplines need them sooner.

 

-eric

Worst dps spec doesn't need buffs? Interesting philosophy.

We all know they can't do them all at once. This MMO, along with all others i know of have tried to do all classes at once and only made things a lot worse, and made the customer/ us wish they hadn't touched anything at all.

Balancing is best done in a holistic approach across the full set of classes in an MMO (even though it generally results in some classes getting more tweaks then others) ... because there are real interdependencies between the classes in terms of offense and defense and interplay.

AND.. class balance is NOT based on solo character play, and never should be.