We had nothing (Lana, Theron, some basic base on Odessen and the Gravestone that barely wroked) and went against the biggest power in the galaxy.

Now we have a big base, resources from Iokath, possibly some resources from Nathema, best minds in the galaxy - and we can't just ignore two drained factions jumping at each other's throats to resume a stalemate war...

No - it's an idiotic storyline. The decision to go back to rep vs. Imp and downgrading the alliance is one of the worst story decisions ever.

It is yeah, when you get down to it. We did nothing to deserve being downgraded, like the OP said we beat everyone, so now that we lost a couple of ships, we're scraps that have to choose a side. It's a bit depressing.

I think as the alliance we should've picked who we're taking over first.

What's silly is that even when the Alliance had all the resources, the narrative was that we still needed to ally with a faction. When Iokath happened, the Alliance had the Eternal Fleet, the Gravestone, the droid factories, and most of the Knights of Zakuul, and if you had let SCORPIO live you might have had her cooperation on Iokath too. The planets that had been harmed by Zakuul were coming to the Alliance with hands out for help. With all of that, logically, the Alliance should have been able to blow both the Republic and Imperial forces on Iokath to smithereens, or force them to back off.

The Alliance was able to beat Zakuul to start with without a lot of manpower or ships to start with.

Having to be demoted to being a faction lackey is disheartening after all that. It's been brought up before that the Alliance supposedly still holds Iokath, and isn't there enough tech there to cause some damage and protect Odessen?

Arcann and Thexan conducted a series of surprise attacks and then disappeared before the Republic or Empire could retaliate. Zakuul didn't conquer the galaxy until they used the full might of the Eternal Fleet.

The Alliance doesn't have the Eternal Fleet so they can't enforce their will like Zakuul once did, anymore. The Alliance never had enough forces to outnumber either the Empire or Republic. They only gained the strength they did by recruiting people who who chose to leave the Republic and Empire and those people were always the minority, in both factions.

After the Eternal Fleet was lost, the Alliance could no longer maintain peace. And since their original reason for joining the Alliance was achieved, and their current objective is to make sure their old homes survive the coming conflict, many returned to the Republic and Empire.

Its a symptom of short-sighted story-writing.

If you'd remained a simple smuggler captain, a Jedi knight, Sith warrior or a bounty hunter, ( &c) then menial tasks would seem more natural.

But the writers had to have bigger and badder bosses each time and went straight for the top- the commander of an empire and a 'god' itself. Then they ran out of things to defeat in the galaxy, so they got you firefighting or zapping Geonosians on Ossus.

My table-top RPG group has been running STAR WARS for about 20 years on and off. it runs to 100s of episodes. - I didn't get them to challenge the empire alone, or take on a robot that thought it was god.... so the story remains on an even keel.

Any writer should know not to write the climax in chapter 2.

But that's what happens. At BW, the devs write the story and writers do the coding.

So we lost the Gravestone and a couple of Eternal Fleet ships parked around Odessan, and we're good for nothing just like that?

Yep. You lost your Mary Sue spaceship and your plot armor fleet.

Quote: Originally Posted by ForfiniteStories View Post

So we lost the Gravestone and a couple of Eternal Fleet ships parked around Odessan, and we're good for nothing just like that?

I thought the WHOLE eternal fleet blew up, not just a few.

My Jedi saw the Alliance as necessary. Now that the threat has passed, he is ready to rejoin his Jedi brothers/sisters in protecting the Republic; while also holding on the to hope that the Empire would behave themselves.

My Sith saw the Alliance as a necessary means to take control from the failures that were the Republic and Empire. He is a bit put out that he lost so much so quickly, but will remain loyal to the Empire while seeking out the necessary power to regain control of the galaxy from those two failed entities.

those are the only two i have had time to get up to speed. my other toons will have various outlooks as they move forwards in their stories.

Yup and now you have to shovel...

I am not a fan of the whole Kotfe/et, Iokath, Nathema chapters. From allowing Koth to claim the Gravestone, (Personally Admiral Aygo would have that ship and a full crew of hundreds) to losing the entire fleet over Nathema which I completely missed somehow. Probably didn't read the letters.

Suggesting we join the Republic or the Empire would be thought out a bit more. That we were out on the fringe of both factions would make more local concerns relevant to my faction. So I would either disband the Alliance fully or put it in a position to defend itself. Iokath would have been an easy win once the Eternal fleet was back in my control or as allies as the Gemini droids truly controlled the ships. Both factions on Iokath would have been kicked off or destroyed.

As far as joining either side if I was going to join the opposite side it would be openly and aggressively. Gnost Dural would have died by my pub toons hand. If they went to the Empire's camp they would have taken over the moment Darth Malgus showed up. Killing Malora, Malgus, and taking out Gnost Dural. My imp toons joining the republic they would have shown up at the farm and helped repel the Empire or gone to the Empire camp and killed Malora and planted bombs through the area destroying their capacity to threaten the colony. Malgus if picked up would have been killed like the traitor he is no quarter. If I switched factions it would have been on Iokath and the switch would have been fully complete by the time Ossus becomes known.

I would never have gone there alone. Maybe one ship my class ship (not some Koth POS) Packed full of supplies and my top team. Lana, Theron, T7-01, and a dozen more. Theron they would not have a problem with pub side or alliance with pub on Iokath and I doubt they would have a problem with Lana Imp side especially after an alliance with the Empire on Iokath. The rest of the alliance would be on call waiting just out of detection range. Malgus's ships would have never made it in system without being attacked by a fleet run by Admiral Aygo or by Paxton Rall if they were the Daerunn fleet trying to stop the Empire's.

Theron's actions and Nathama had a chance to destroy the Alliance as it could have split the alliance in two fighting each other causing the Eternal Fleet to leave seeing the Alliance was falling apart. This would have ended the alliance period as its member's died or left to go home back to the Republic or the Empire. In the end you would have been left with the pub companions or the Empire companions. The neutral companions would stay with you depending on how dark or light you are or go back to their own thing. Doc O would go where the funding was to invent. Sana would go where her vision lead, Aygo would go back into retirement. Hylo would rip off the all the funds the alliance had as it fell apart leaving with Gault or taking her revenge on him for stealing from her so long ago. Though at this point with only my closest friends left most likely I would retire from all the conflict or fade away into normalcy.

We're joining back to whatever faction we've chosen; that's ok for most and keeping the independence of Our Alliance, that's also good. Joining Back should not have to mean as "Lackey" though. Instead of writing *Only "Go Fetch, Go Kill" missions how about adding Some decisions like "Commanders" actually do?

Examples : Attack this group then walk in or Sneak in and fight your way out? which ever is the better strategy will come out as you go (The right choice story moves on, wrong choice you repeat until getting it right).

Talk to "Whoever" to coordinate an attack OR do the attack yourself and take full credit IF that was the better choice.

Move your "Forces" to the front and let your Faction Ally back you up OR Let your Allied faction take the front line and your forces moves in behind the enemy once the battle is on

The Possibilities are as endless as the creativity potential of the writers. Commanders do make decisions, Important decisions and the great ones are there to carry them out.

Damn they could at least give us a cantina cutscene showing our depressed and angry commanders at the bar drinking away the loss of power (let me throw a glass or two and punch a table dammit) cussing the two fighting factions. Maybe Theron and Lana trying to cheer us on or chime in on our lamenting.

I also think they had to take away some power from the player chars to make us powerful again in another way. I didn't find it that bad of a story, it was ok and served it's purpose. The upcoming struggle between imp and pub side is not that far fetched if you look at what usually happens after war and resource scarety, even more if a powerful peacekeeping third faction looses a lot of power.

What I dislike the most is that I feel like a traitor siding with one faciton, especially when the chosen faction displays their hatred and bad intentions against the other faction that I still consider somewhat part of my alliance. Everytime I help out imp side on Ossus I feel like I betray all pub npcs I gathered around me at my alliance base, at least I give them a reason to leave the alliance for good. Both factions do somewhat betray the alliance at the same time on Iokath but I had hoped for a more fine tuned process of decision making instead of a plain: take this side or that side question.

Damn they could at least give us a cantina cutscene showing our depressed and angry commanders at the bar drinking away the loss of power (let me throw a glass or two and punch a table dammit) cussing the two fighting factions. Maybe Theron and Lana trying to cheer us on or chime in on our lamenting.

Ha. Good idea

Personally I go for -- for those old enough to remember -- that weekly scene in hee-haw with the two drunkards in overalls lying on either side of a sad-looking great dane singing "where oh where are you tonight, why did you leave me here all alone, I searched the world over and thought I found true love, YOU FOUND another and pbbbt you were gone!"

But with slightly different lyrics:

"Where, where, has my throne gone? Why did I lose the emperorship? I searched Zakuul over and I thought I had found it! NEW WRITERS took over and pbbbt I was gone."

Instead of writing *Only "Go Fetch, Go Kill" missions how about adding Some decisions like "Commanders" actually do?

It's an MMO. It's what they do.

that weekly scene in hee-haw...

OMG, a Hee Haw reference! "Gloom, Dispair and Agony on me...oooohhhh!"

Didn't Kreia tell us why we do these small missions in KOTOR2?

I recall asking her something to the effect of: "Why must these fools draw me in to their petty problems with these tasks that are beneath me?"

Kreia: "They are drawn to power. They can consciously or unconsciously sense that events are moving around you. You create ripples wherever you go."

I looked around on google, but couldn't find the direct quote. But I distinctly remember it because I was thinking the same thing as my character regarding some of the go-fetch quests

I don't mind doing missions that seem trivial for someone of my character's rank and fame.

What I do mind is making us work very hard to build resources and then taking them away.

I agree with everyone who says it's a problem with story design and lazy writing.

It feels like they made us too power, too fast, and then didn't know how to handle it, so they hamstrung us.

Here's what I would like to see...

* Personal missions for us to go on. Situations that you can't just blast with a fleet of ships.

IE: More romance scenes, relic hunting, new planet exploration, helping our allies, and assisting our companions with their personal issues.

* Cut scenes where we send our top companions to go on secret, private, or interesting missions, with an outcome based on who we send on what we tell them to do.

IE: Theron and Lana rooting out spies from the faction we didn't side with. Akaavi/Kaliyo/Mako stopping a terrorist attack. T7-01/HK-55/2V-R8/C2-N2 liberating newly self-aware droids on Zakuul. Gault/Vette/Skadge running for cover after a theft gone bad. Rusk/Jorgan/Torian helping a former friend complete their mission.

* Cut scenes where we direct our Fleet to do interesting things -- battle an alien threat, break an illegal blockade, deliver humanitarian aid, ship refugees off a dying lunar colony, that sort of thing.

* Cut scenes where we make political and governmental decisions about Odessen that impact how it expands -- and expand it! Let it grow a trade port, military base, research facility, galactic university, new Force-user academy... whatever, based on our choices.

That way, we still keep all of our power and resources, but we still need to deal with things personally.

Didn't Kreia tell us why we do these small missions in KOTOR2?

 

I recall asking her something to the effect of: "Why must these fools draw me in to their petty problems with these tasks that are beneath me?"

Kreia: "They are drawn to power. They can consciously or unconsciously sense that events are moving around you. You create ripples wherever you go."

 

I looked around on google, but couldn't find the direct quote. But I distinctly remember it because I was thinking the same thing as my character regarding some of the go-fetch quests

I just played KOTOR2, and mostly I remember Kreia complaining that I should NOT be doing those small, menial tasks for everyone else. Because that robs them of the ability to get better on their own... or something. I can't remember exactly, but somehow it was evil to help people.

I get that in order to move the story forward without continuing the Eternal Alliance angle, they had to knock the Commander down a few pegs, but I feel like they've been knocked down too much in 5.10. No respect from their former factions, being treated like a lackey, not even having their former stations respected, back to fetch quests, essentially - couldn't there have been a happy medium?

I get the feeling that the theme for 6.0 is going to be the PC going back to their former faction not as a hero but as a failure and being treated accordingly.

I just played KOTOR2, and mostly I remember Kreia complaining that I should NOT be doing those small, menial tasks for everyone else. Because that robs them of the ability to get better on their own... or something. I can't remember exactly, but somehow it was evil to help people.

Yeah, I think yours is the Light Side/ Jedi reaction. If you are Dark/Sith, you get what I wrote.

Something like that.

I just played KOTOR2, and mostly I remember Kreia complaining that I should NOT be doing those small, menial tasks for everyone else. Because that robs them of the ability to get better on their own... or something. I can't remember exactly, but somehow it was evil to help people.

It's not evil, it's just that in her eyes, "helping others" isnt't gonna make you or them stronger, weak will always need help and they will pull you down with them, preventing you to rise to higher levels.

Even with B.W.'s depleted(?) abilities They absolutely could do better; all depends on how much attention and effort they *Choose to put in.

It's an MMO. It's what they do.

Not going to win anybody over/ back doing the minimum.

The Class stories that are liked so much here are full of choices, decisions that formed every aspect of our characters life and standing with their companions and Faction to some extent. Obviously they cant do that scale now but they can do a some.

I just played KOTOR2, and mostly I remember Kreia complaining that I should NOT be doing those small, menial tasks for everyone else. Because that robs them of the ability to get better on their own... or something. I can't remember exactly, but somehow it was evil to help people.

Kreia's the last person anyone should be taking moral cues from.

Anyway, the larger problem of doing "menial" tasks is not exactly a new one. Sith Inquisitors especially never felt to me like they were actually on the Dark Council, I mean can you imagine Darth Marr doing the dailies on CZ-198? But more than that, I really don't see what the issue with doing things yourself is. The Outlander already did most of the important things themselves, even after becoming Commander. And on Ossus they were being sent to protect strategic objectives and defend evacuees.

That droid in particular is one of the most important things the colony has. The idea that the Outlander is "too important" to save vital research that could literally help everyone in the entire Republic is a little baffling to me.

was it chapter 2-3 maybe ? that was the LAST time we heard our Title from Lana . When you escape on the shuttle with Koth , HK and Lana . And you say something like ''call the dark council- contact the jedi- the repb''' and you get a ''My lord , Jedi Master'' . After that..it become the most-boring-title-in-the-galaxy- the Outlander . Then we got an upgrade! now we are COMMANDER!

wake me up when they get their heads out of the sand...

Being an Alliance Commander was no fun anyway. There was never any Real Time Strategy involved or or RTS bird's eye view, click and drag troop selection, right click to issue attack order. CTRL + 1 to assign control groups, CTRL + 2 to assign control group two, etc.

This game has a mini spacefighter mode, walker mode, mouse droid mode, hmmm what would a real time strategy segment look like. No one has made a RTS MMO w/RPG before.

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