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I hate how they've done switching factions

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
I hate how they've done switching factions

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
06.26.2019 , 02:58 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by sauceemynx View Post
*SPOILERS BELOW*

I think there would have to be consequences with your LIs or else it would just be plain weird. In addition to the ones you mentioned above, I can't see Nadia sticking with the consular if he goes to the Empire. I also just can't imagine Theron would be okay with it in the long run; he hated Saresh, but overall he's a Republic man right down the line. And what about Dark Jaesa? No way she'd hang with the Republic--they won't let her kill everything in sight. Doc fought against the Empire on Balmorra so I wouldn't think he'd follow a saboteur JK to the enemy--same with Corso, who hated the Imps for supporting the Seps on Ord Mantell. Other LIs like Kaliyo (no morals whatsoever), Andronikos (although he did hate the Republic once), possibly Torian (he's more of a laid back surfer dude Mando), Mako, Vette, and Risha might not mind so much which faction their main squeeze is siding with. Maybe Lana, too. Or I could be totally wrong. Whatever the case, I do expect people will be losing LIs for their decisions--look at how they took Elara away if you blew up Zakuul.
They've created a real mess.

For others, Akaavi's profile says she dislikes the Republic so if you side with the Empire, I can't think that she would have an issue. Felix was treated horribly by the Republic so he might not care about a switch at this point. Same for Vector on the other side. Nadia says something about having to learn to co-exist peacefully with the Sith when you meet her on Odessen, so I think it's possible she would be all right with a switch, so long as the Empire-siding JC didn't go all DS and kill everything in sight.

I think both Lana and Theron will have an issue if the PC goes too far in hurting their old faction. Lana is extremely loyal, but like Theron she's still attached to her old faction at heart - she disapproves if you side Republic on Iokath, for instance. Theron already seems displeased if the PC is a saboteur, which doesn't bode well.

I think if they are being realistic they will also have issues with the faction handling the LI. The Jedi hate Sith. Lana is Sith and decidedly so, and I think that just like Scourge, if you show up with her in Jedi land, some NPCs will immediately be hostile. Likewise with Theron, he's directly responsible for causing damage to the Empire and killing Sith lords, AND is the Grand Master and Jace Malcom's kid, so I can't imagine the Empire embracing him with open arms.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
06.26.2019 , 03:04 AM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by Goreshaga View Post
Except that storywise all characters can have valid reasons to dislike their original faction and be willing to switch sides.
You can even choose to become an actual SIS double agent at the end of the IA story.
Why give these options if you're still forced to work for a faction your character despises ?
Forcing evryone back to their original faction would make half of my main characters unplayable for me
I feel this way too. From the class stories onward there have been points where the PC can make changes, and in KOTFE they are outside of their faction, and Iokath happened. It seems wrong to force them all back into little boxes that might not fit them anymore, and it's not just headcanon - the story has led them away from those niches.

If my ex-Jedi are forced to become Jedi again, or my trooper is forced back into Havoc Squad, or my smuggler again becomes a pawn of the Republic, I'm just going to stop playing them. I really didn't like the auto-dialogue on Ossus even for saboteurs, where they were saying "it's so good to be back to the Jedi!" NO, it's not.

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Goreshaga
06.26.2019 , 05:21 AM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
"it's so good to be back to the Jedi!" NO, it's not.
This annoyed me so much as well.
My ex Jedi may have sided with the Republic, BUT 1.she doesn't consider herself a Jedi anymore and 2.she's an ally, not a part of the Republic and has 0 intention of going back.
She chose the Republic only because she thought that it was the safe bet to keep the Alliance as independant as possible once the war's over.

I like that in the Hearts and minds bit of story you could actually sa so.
Fisrt to Theron when he comes to you with hoipes about the Republic to which you can pretty much answer with a "we'll see" and then during that interview where you can telle that guy that yeah you're an ally but not actually part of the Republic.
And I hop future dialogues will continue to allow that distinction.

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I think both Lana and Theron will have an issue if the PC goes too far in hurting their old faction. Lana is extremely loyal, but like Theron she's still attached to her old faction at heart - she disapproves if you side Republic on Iokath, for instance. Theron already seems displeased if the PC is a saboteur, which doesn't bode well.

I think if they are being realistic they will also have issues with the faction handling the LI. The Jedi hate Sith. Lana is Sith and decidedly so, and I think that just like Scourge, if you show up with her in Jedi land, some NPCs will immediately be hostile. Likewise with Theron, he's directly responsible for causing damage to the Empire and killing Sith lords, AND is the Grand Master and Jace Malcom's kid, so I can't imagine the Empire embracing him with open arms.
Even if it may suck when playing an imp sympathiser romancing a pub sympathiser LI and vice versa, i still think the LIs should continue to act according to what they believe in.
I think that as long as our characters don't go too far it may be ok for some LIs, but not necessarily all of them, and it would be pretty illogical to me that a LI stays with you if you destroy everything they believe in. I think there our actions should have consequences on the relationship.

And as you said it would be more logical for people of a faction to have issues with LIs from the other faction.
Technically Jedi should have issues with any LI for a character wanting to go back to being a Jedi, but clearly more for Lana or Arcann. The Sith should have issues with Theron and Arcann...
In need of more Arcann, Aric, Torian, Vector, and a lot, lot, lot more Theron.
There's nothing like geting too much Theron

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sauceemynx's Avatar


sauceemynx
06.26.2019 , 06:32 AM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
They've created a real mess.
I think that's dead right. From a story standpoint I find what might come to pass quite fascinating, but no matter what happens, people are going to be deeply unhappy. Your LI and other companions don't care which faction you're with? Unrealistic and immersion-breaking. They do care and leave you? Give me my companions back! It's one thing if you know it's going to happen--for instance, anyone who starts a trooper now but previously played another one all the way through in the past will be aware of the Elara/Zakuul issue--but when we were originally given a choice to turn saboteur we were flying blind. Of course, we could have considered what might happen down the road, but that doesn't stop people feeling cheated.

Or maybe people will be fine with it. I don't know if there was a hue and outcry when troopers lost Elara in Iokath for previous decisions. Up until now I've decided whether to turn saboteur or not with an eye both toward following the character's story arc, and whether or not I'm willing to lose certain companions. Hedging my bets, if you will. Hopefully more will become plain with 6.0.

Sarova's Avatar


Sarova
06.26.2019 , 06:53 AM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by BunsterByne View Post
I have several characters who would probably change factions, but not a single one of them would be a spy and sabotage their former faction from the inside, they arent deceptive types.
I agree, the saboteur thing is not good - I really didn't like how it was done in hearts and minds. My characters would either openly change faction OR remain neutral and loyal to their alliance agreeing to assist one faction when it suits their Alliance's interests and not aligning permanently with either the Empire or the Republic.
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IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
06.26.2019 , 06:55 AM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by sauceemynx View Post
I think that's dead right. From a story standpoint I find what might come to pass quite fascinating, but no matter what happens, people are going to be deeply unhappy. Your LI and other companions don't care which faction you're with? Unrealistic and immersion-breaking. They do care and leave you? Give me my companions back! It's one thing if you know it's going to happen--for instance, anyone who starts a trooper now but previously played another one all the way through in the past will be aware of the Elara/Zakuul issue--but when we were originally given a choice to turn saboteur we were flying blind. Of course, we could have considered what might happen down the road, but that doesn't stop people feeling cheated.

Or maybe people will be fine with it. I don't know if there was a hue and outcry when troopers lost Elara in Iokath for previous decisions. Up until now I've decided whether to turn saboteur or not with an eye both toward following the character's story arc, and whether or not I'm willing to lose certain companions. Hedging my bets, if you will. Hopefully more will become plain with 6.0.
Truth in all of this. From a story standpoint, it's frankly bad writing if they have the companions, some of whom have previously expressed very strong opinions toward one faction or the other, smile and nod and go along with anything. From a standpoint of someone who has grown attached to said companions, I do think it's going to upset a lot of people to lose them. There are companions that I frankly don't care about and don't care if they walk away, but there are others I deeply want to keep.

And I think it also is going to upset a lot of people in light of what they established in the SoR and KOTFE era - "hey, we will let you go outside your faction, make friends and allies from across the galaxy and--haha, only joking! Back to the Jedi with you!"

It's also a good point that those who will be playing through this story first will be flying blind. I think on some level it can sometimes be easy to anticipate how a companion might respond, but on the other hand, there's sometimes no warning. As you said, I don't think anyone playing a trooper would have even considered that something from KOTFE would have a permanent effect later. I don't think there was an outcry about it, but I also think that's because Elara may not be the most liked/popular of the companions. If, say, Vector had refused to come back because he heard you bombed the Spire, I think there would have been a lot more fallout.

All of this is why I'm not taking my most beloved characters through any of the new material right away.

RameiArashi's Avatar


RameiArashi
06.26.2019 , 10:38 AM | #37
Given that he left him to die my dark jedi shadow hops never to see Theron again. I want Tharan and Zenith back.

RakiaTime's Avatar


RakiaTime
06.26.2019 , 10:52 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Truth in all of this. From a story standpoint, it's frankly bad writing if they have the companions, some of whom have previously expressed very strong opinions toward one faction or the other, smile and nod and go along with anything. From a standpoint of someone who has grown attached to said companions, I do think it's going to upset a lot of people to lose them. There are companions that I frankly don't care about and don't care if they walk away, but there are others I deeply want to keep.

And I think it also is going to upset a lot of people in light of what they established in the SoR and KOTFE era - "hey, we will let you go outside your faction, make friends and allies from across the galaxy and--haha, only joking! Back to the Jedi with you!"

It's also a good point that those who will be playing through this story first will be flying blind. I think on some level it can sometimes be easy to anticipate how a companion might respond, but on the other hand, there's sometimes no warning. As you said, I don't think anyone playing a trooper would have even considered that something from KOTFE would have a permanent effect later. I don't think there was an outcry about it, but I also think that's because Elara may not be the most liked/popular of the companions. If, say, Vector had refused to come back because he heard you bombed the Spire, I think there would have been a lot more fallout.

All of this is why I'm not taking my most beloved characters through any of the new material right away.
i mean in any game, even more so in story based rpgs, you always go in blind, unless spoilers obviously, you play, make the choices you want and then deal with the consequences, so yeah, i expect companions to leave, i expect some will try to kill you and i do expect choices i made earlier to matter, as with Elara. Thats where multiple characters and multiple choices come in, you cant have all the things on every character. I am NOT going back to the jedi tho

Luckily for me my main is a smuggler so im just going in with zero F's given, i doubt Risha cares who pays the bills

Keta's Avatar


Keta
06.26.2019 , 11:22 AM | #39
My personal guess is that the saboteur storyline is game and engine mechanics limitations driven rather than story. I think that if a 'clean switch' in factions was possible absent extensive recoding and the myriad of bugs that would inveitbly result, they'd have done so.
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xordevoreaux's Avatar


xordevoreaux
06.26.2019 , 04:59 PM | #40
The dual quest lines in Everquest 2 to switch factions are long, and contain sub-quests to both damage one's original faction as well as support one's new faction, but there's only one quest, either way.

Sounds like people overall in this thread don't mind the idea of the ability to change factions, they just don't like the story wrapped around with it. No one promised that changing factions would be a sterile, easy situation.

That players must follow through with actions that they find distasteful, at least in my mind, adds to the entire distasteful process. It's not meant to be an on/off switch with no pain involved.
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