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Proving Grounds problem/rant


Notbk

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So we have a warzone with more operation like mechanics than pvp. OK, fine, whatever.

After the first round, more often than not, people just running to cap and avoiding PVP. OK, fine, whatever.

(On average what's the top damage & kills amount?)

To me, that sucks. But all that aside, there's a major inbalance to the game mode/map.

 

Stand in square, capture point. OK, fine.

 

Melee class gets to an open point, begins capturing.

Ranged class from 30 meters opens up on them.

Melee player can not leave square to fight back.

 

There's no where to LOS external ranged attacks while in the square.

Melee player can stand and die or engage and lose the objective.

This is pvp?

I'll take the 15 minute time out and queue on another character to leave this one every time. Worth.

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So we have a warzone with more operation like mechanics than pvp. OK, fine, whatever.

After the first round, more often than not, people just running to cap and avoiding PVP. OK, fine, whatever.

(On average what's the top damage & kills amount?)

To me, that sucks. But all that aside, there's a major inbalance to the game mode/map.

 

Stand in square, capture point. OK, fine.

 

Melee class gets to an open point, begins capturing.

Ranged class from 30 meters opens up on them.

Melee player can not leave square to fight back.

 

There's no where to LOS external ranged attacks while in the square.

Melee player can stand and die or engage and lose the objective.

This is pvp?

I'll take the 15 minute time out and queue on another character to leave this one every time. Worth.

Do you call for help at the node or do you just stand there and quietly take the shots like a practice dummy?

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Do you call for help at the node or do you just stand there and quietly take the shots like a practice dummy?

 

Calling incs rarely helps. Even if someone decides to come help, the map is so big that they can’t get there in time unless they are already on their way.

 

The biggest issue is people don’t take the time to understand the map or how it works or how to look at the mini map to understand the basics like north south east west mid.

So they play follow the leader and if the person they follow doesn’t know anything or is an idiot, they lead them on a wild goose chase and the games a write off.

 

Then you have those people who don’t even look at the map. They run north at the start regardless if that is an active node or not. The last OPG I played, I ran out the right door at the start to get the mod to head south because that one popped. My team followed me out the door instead of heading south and then continued to go north and sit there at a dead node the whole round while me and one other guy tried to hold onto south.

 

Honestly, the map and mechanics just seem like they are too difficult for the average noobs to understand. it’s not hard, but they refuse to learn. Which makes the whole mode unenjoyable.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Exactly, say you call for help.

Even IF someone can get to your node in time.

You've been eating 10-15k dps the whole time.

Your cooldowns are probably blown and you're hanging on by a sliver of health, what use are you now?

And if its another melee that scrambles over to assist, well that puts us right back where we started doesn't it?

 

Sure, mods win games, (lets consider that you didnt open the node with a green) even with 2x you're not going to secure as many points as the ranged dps is when he finishes you in short order and claims the node, and hes at 100% to defend it still.

 

So it was suggested that this is a L2P issue.

Given the original scenario, lets say mara capping node and a merc/sorc/sniper opens up on you like you're a training dummy from 30+ meters.

What is your solution here? Never claim the point to begin with, let the other team have the points at their leisure?

 

Furthermore, after the first round or two you spend nearly the whole round basically afk on the node. Thats pvp? Standing around waiting for a timer to run out, go to new node next round, repeat. The devs really like to beat on a dead horse about not encouraging afk gameplay, promoting engagement, we'll tell you how to play BS, but very often a significant, if not majority, amount of your time in the warzone is standing at a node not fighting, not engaged, trying not to alt tab to reddit. Often in the later rounds if there's no more mods up, all the nodes are taken, team members double and triple up on at their nodes just waiting for the next round of nodes to pop. There's no fighting, you have to weaken your node's presence to go attack their node. And following suit, they have 2-3 extras just waiting for the next round of nodes to pop and you're likely running into a camped node and 1v3+. So by round 3 no one fights, a few do, mostly just sitting on a node waiting for the next round.

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Honestly, the map and mechanics just seem like they are too difficult for the average noobs to understand. it’s not hard, but they refuse to learn. Which makes the whole mode unenjoyable.

 

You are more kind than I about people's motivations for not playing this map. :D I assume people generally know how, but that so many just don't care.

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Exactly, say you call for help.

Even IF someone can get to your node in time.

You've been eating 10-15k dps the whole time.

Your cooldowns are probably blown and you're hanging on by a sliver of health, what use are you now?

And if its another melee that scrambles over to assist, well that puts us right back where we started doesn't it?

 

"Right back where we started"? You mean, owning the node and generating points for your team towards a win? :p

 

[before I start on this, you should know I dislike this map for pretty much the same reason as you, but to be fair...]

 

Why does someone coming to your aid mean you have to survive? Especially on that map, where it's a game of "we just have to keep this long enough", so that the round finishes, and the nodes reset?

 

There was someone on these boards a while ago lamenting that a team could keep a node (in any "keep the nodes" game mode) by just having one person make it there in time and interrupt. That even though the "stronger" team kept wiping out the opposition, the owning team could keep it by just constantly BARELY getting someone there to interrupt over and over. They wanted more the ESO style, where the team with the most people at the node would just take it. I would HATE that method... I mean, I don't hate it in ESO, because that's the way they did it. But if someone wants that style of "node ownership", then go play one of the other 15million MMO PvP games that do it that way.

 

For this game, it IS valuable and worth it for one person to delay a capture long enough for help to get there, even if that first person then dies. So your "what use are you now"... your value was in the past, where you held it long enough for someone else to get there. Your use "now" I think doesn't matter as much. And, again, especially in OPG.

 

Sure, mods win games, (lets consider that you didnt open the node with a green) even with 2x you're not going to secure as many points as the ranged dps is when he finishes you in short order and claims the node, and hes at 100% to defend it still.

 

Don't ranged have just as much a disadvantage as you, just from the other side of things? Once they own the node, they have to sit there. They can't use any kiting to avoid a melee that comes to try to take it from them. Well, maybe not JUST AS MUCH disadvantage, since they can at least still pew-pew you, while you can't really attack a ranged at all while they sit 30m away - but still, they do lose a lot of the advantage they have by not being able to reposition during a fight if they are solo guarding.

 

So it was suggested that this is a L2P issue.

Given the original scenario, lets say mara capping node and a merc/sorc/sniper opens up on you like you're a training dummy from 30+ meters.

What is your solution here? Never claim the point to begin with, let the other team have the points at their leisure?

 

Right, I think your solution is to call for help, claim the node, and hope your team is actually playing the game. If your team is playing the game, then someone should be on their way. (You know, I just thought of something, it'd be nice if nodes under attack would flash or something - I don't mean when you can see them go dim AFTER your team has all died or abandoned it, but it should flash if anyone in the node starts taking damage.)

 

If your team is not bothering to play the map... ya, you are screwed. But if your team is not playing pretty much any of the maps, and you are trying to do objectives solo against an enemy team that's working together, you are also screwed. So OPG isn't alone in that regard.

 

Furthermore, after the first round or two you spend nearly the whole round basically afk on the node. Thats pvp? Standing around waiting for a timer to run out, go to new node next round, repeat. The devs really like to beat on a dead horse about not encouraging afk gameplay, promoting engagement, we'll tell you how to play BS, but very often a significant, if not majority, amount of your time in the warzone is standing at a node not fighting, not engaged, trying not to alt tab to reddit. Often in the later rounds if there's no more mods up, all the nodes are taken, team members double and triple up on at their nodes just waiting for the next round of nodes to pop. There's no fighting, you have to weaken your node's presence to go attack their node. And following suit, they have 2-3 extras just waiting for the next round of nodes to pop and you're likely running into a camped node and 1v3+. So by round 3 no one fights, a few do, mostly just sitting on a node waiting for the next round.

 

This is my biggest beef with OPG. The best way to win the game is to basically not fight. I believe, in the other maps, hardly anyone actually *likes* being the person standing at the off node, waiting for something to happen. And so what does bioware do? They make an entire map where that's basically the most valuable thing to do!

 

The worst thing you can do is get bogged down in a fight trying to take over a node. If you already own it, and are fighting to keep it fine, but fighting to try to claim one... waste of time unless you have a big enough advantage to just wipe them quick - and what fun is that fight?

 

This game was originally described as a "king of the hill" mode, and it's not remotely a king of the hill map. If it were king of the hill, then if there were a big fight at some node, and eventually one team came out on top, then that "winning" team would get a bunch of points. Instead, they get basically nothing, because the timer ran almost all the way down before the node was captured. And, as you say, someone standing off to the side by themselves, bored out of their minds, was racking up all the points.

 

I think they should change it so it does something like... whenever there is fighting "near" a node, then it starts accumulating points, maybe the number of points is relative to however many are fighting there. But neither team gets them yet, no matter who owns it. Then, when the round time expires, whichever team owns it at that point gets the spoils. So kind of like the kill points in AHG. I'm sure that method would suck in some way too, but at least it would make it worth it to actually fight over a node.

 

Anyway, "Yes", OPG sucks even when you do understand how to play the map... I'm with Trix, I leave it most of the time it pops. Actually, now-a-days, most of the time when I see it, I just quit the game.

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You are more kind than I about people's motivations for not playing this map. :D I assume people generally know how, but that so many just don't care.

 

There are those people too, but in my experience they’re usually the premades, which when you think about it, they should have the advantage, but they choose to farm kills. Then the noobs on your team just play follow the premade.

 

It’s a good map for actual premades or group co-op, but is so often let down by those players, it’s the least enjoyable experience I have in the game.

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I agree. It’s definitely a team work map, but when no one wants to play as a team it’s painful. I still leave most of them, even with the lock out because no one plays it properly and it’s a waste of 10-15mins.

 

That map is a maze that my aging, tired brain almost cannot handle. Not a fan of that map. The nodes are way too far away and the maze makes it even more difficult to respond. In theory the map is a cool idea...it's different, for certain, but in practice it leaves a lot to be desired.

Edited by Sappharan
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Calling incs rarely helps. Even if someone decides to come help, the map is so big that they can’t get there in time unless they are already on their way.

 

I would argue that it is situational. Ive played that map plenty of times and been in that same situation. I've had several instances where i call inc and i get a good response. you are correct in that people dont always respond, but that shouldn't be an excuse to not call for help. Call it, give the team a chance.

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I would argue that it is situational. Ive played that map plenty of times and been in that same situation. I've had several instances where i call inc and i get a good response. you are correct in that people dont always respond, but that shouldn't be an excuse to not call for help. Call it, give the team a chance.

 

I usually call before I see anyone just to get one more. Rarely do I get a response.

 

My usual tactics is to go for green mods, then call which one I’m opening. Once again, I rarely get back up.

 

Now there are rare occasions I do get back up. Only to see the whole team come and actually leave another node completely to go neutral.

 

OPG is the sort of map that requires voice chat to be played properly

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OP does have a point...

Let's say you're protecting north with NOTHING to LOS the ranged player, until someone come to help you, your HP is already gone and you can't do anything about it.

If you fight the ranged you lose the node, if you stay you die.

 

OPG is a terrible map and is the perfect reason why people only deathmatch and do zero objectives, because you have to AVOID pvp in order to win.

If I queued for pvp, I want to pvp, not to stand 5 minutes in a node doing nothing.

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It's not about the lightsabre being shorter than the range of the guns. Its more about clever play, rotating your DCDs, using CC and Line-of-sighting, then using your offensives to bust-down the ranged player.

 

To be fair though, unless the ranged player comes to the node he's scoring nothing for is team.

 

- And the ranged on your team are doing the same to their solo melee node guards.

 

Lesson is, never guard a node without some form of backup or backup plan, and never get caught alone and vulnerable.

 

GL

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