Some of the most destructive Sith in the galaxy were originally Jedi prior to their fall.

 

Ajunta Pall - Rose to become a Jedi Master before his fall, founded the Sith Empire

Freedon Nadd - Originally aspired to become the greatest Jedi ever, eventually abandoned the dream to attempt to become the greatest Sith sorcerer ever, rose to become the Dark Lord of the Sith, lead to war eventually corrupted Exar Kun

Exar Kun - A Jedi Padawan that was corrupted by Freedon Nadd, started a war against the Jedi Order & the Old Republic

Ulic Qel-Droma - A Jedi Knight, eventually joined forces with Exar Kun after his fall to the dark side

Revan - Originally a Jedi Knight, led the Republic during the Mandalorian Wars and was eventually turned to the dark side by Vitiate, launched a war against the Old Republic. Eventually redeemed himself.

Malak - Companion and second in command to Revan, struck Revan down and rose to become Dark Lord of the Sith himself, continued the war against the Old Republic that Revan began, but was eventually killed by a redeemed Revan.

Traya - Originally a Jedi Master, she was exiled due to her role in training Revan, she trained Darth Sion and Nihulus in the dark side ways until she was betrayed by them when Nihilus declared himself Dark Lord of the Sith

Deslous - Originally a Jedi, led a campaign against the Jedi

Ruin - Another Jedi Master, fell to the darkside

Skere Kaan - Another Jedi Master, fell to the darkside, destroyed the Jedi Army of Light with a thought bomb

Tyranus - Count Dooku, probably needs no explanation

Vader - No explanation required

Kyp Durron - A Jedi master that became corrupted by the spirit of Exar Kun, eventually became responsible for the death of millions

Caedus - Jacen Solo, fell to the darkside through the influence of Lumiya, had a long fall to the dark side, but eventually killed Mara Jade Skywalker and was arguably a major source of the cause of the Second Galactic Civil War

Krayt - Originally a Jedi Master in the New Republic, he fell during his captivity with the Yuuzhan Vong, he rebuilt the Sith Order, began a new war, and brought about the destruction of the New Jedi Order

 

While those that were originally Jedi make up less than half of the list of Dark Lords of the Sith, those that happened to be Jedi and fell contributed to most of the strife and death throughout the galaxy. Given that the role of the Jedi Order is relatively benign in comparison as a balancing force, should the Jedi even be allowed to exist, given the propensity for death and destruction that can be caused by those that fall?

That's a very good point and would make for a great story arc.

From a purely evil, Sith-like point of view... I'd love to wipe out the Jedi. Weaklings that they are.

well think of it:

1) Jedi apparently have to repress their emotions, Not allowed to fall in love....sound familiar? Any organization that tries to establish these rules drive 'deviant' behaviour underground. I've always found that opening story arc about the Jedi lovers and the Kira companion story line disconcerting

2) most lore related to entities with power - a.k.a magic end up with organizations that hold them on a strict leash because of the possible abuses of this power

 

So what is suprirsingly missing are the shackles and leashes that one would expect on anyone demonstrating force powers that would allow someone to control the user (similar to the 'wheel of time' series)

No. So long as you have the Force, you'll have Jedi and Sith and every other order of Force sensitives throughout the galaxy. The Sith and Jedi aren't the source of corruption, they're just a product of the corruption inherent in everyone who's given such power.

The Jedi DID get culled. At the end of the Prequels, the Jedi were done. Finished. Over with. Except for a handful of survivors, they were extinct. The next Jedi Order that formed 30 some odd years after that was MUCH better with Luke at the helm, imo. He valued the people in his order, and didn't try to turn them into drones. He allowed love and marriage, and dealt with each case of falling to the Dark Side individually. He did NOT punish everyone for a single mistake by one individual.

 

In fact, of all the Jedi Masters out there, Luke is one of very few that showed any common sense whatsoever.

Kyp Durron - A Jedi master that became corrupted by the spirit of Exar Kun, eventually became responsible for the death of millions

Krayt - Originally a Jedi Master in the New Republic, he fell during his captivity with the Yuuzhan Vong, he rebuilt the Sith Order, began a new war, and brought about the destruction of the New Jedi Order.

 

Two points of contention here. It's been quite a while since I read it, but I don't think Kyp was a Master when he fell. I do believe he was still an apprentice or knight.

 

And Krayt may just be retconned since his destruction of the NJO takes place after Luke's death in the Legacy timeline. Basically, George Lucas doesn't want Luke dead, so chances are the entire Legacy arc that takes place over a hundred years after Yavin IV is going to get the axe.

 

The point about Krayt is, Luke is dead somehow. George Lucas has stated that Luke, Leia, and Han have Immortal Plot Armor in the Expanded Universe. In other words, anything after Luke's death hasn't happened yet, and won't happen unless George Lucas either A) passes away, or B) gives his permission for Luke Skywalker to die.

 

(I do not agree with George Lucas on any of this Sacred Cow business) - Disclaimer

Edited April 30, 2012 by Captain_Zone

its harder than you would think

 

jedi are like flee's, they multiply at an alarming rate, if you dont' kill every last one. you have a new jedi order within a generation *cough*luke*cough*

thats the dumbest line of thinking ive ever heard.

 

thats like saying everyone in africa should be culled because theres been alot of horrible dictators in africa. its ridiculous.

 

not to mention theres hundreds if nto thousands of years between those guys, yeah lets ignore all the good jedi do cus they COULD turn into a bad guy.

 

ridiculous thread is ridiculous.

I've been thinking a lot about the jedi code lately, and I've decided that the problem isn't with the code so much as it is with the Jedi selection process. The Jedi Code is very strict and is not for everyone. My interpretation of the code is that it calls for the erasure of one's own self in service of a higher cause. This is an extremely difficult thing to ask of someone, and is not a decision a child could make. The Jedi should not actively recruit young force sensitives, but should only accept adults who have committed themselves to the Code and have proven themselves capable. The Jedi should be a very small and selective order, rather than a huge organization of Force sensitives. For analogy, I would say that the Jedi should be seen like monks and nuns; a select group of individuals who have committed themselves to a strict cause. Not all Force sensitives need to be Jedi, just like not all Christians need to be monks or nuns.

thats the dumbest line of thinking ive ever heard.

 

thats like saying everyone in africa should be culled because theres been alot of horrible dictators in africa. its ridiculous.

 

not to mention theres hundreds if nto thousands of years between those guys, yeah lets ignore all the good jedi do cus they COULD turn into a bad guy.

 

ridiculous thread is ridiculous.

 

Your african populace analogy is bad and isn't a good example.

 

Now, what IS a good example are the bad examples of african dictators, so much of them that all dictators need to get culled

 

And that's exactly what needed to happen to the Old Republic's Jedi Order. As the OP listed, some of the worst damage done in Star Wars was from a fallen Jedi.

The root of the problem however is not the Jedi. True they fall to the Dark Side but I maintain two points:

 

1. Force sensitives would continue to exist.

2. You could not round up all the holocrons and databanks that contain light or dark side knowledge.

 

On the off chance some Force Sensitive finds a dark side holocron like so many times in history, trains to be a popstar diva... I mean Sith Lord.. and uses his/her power to build an empire and establish a new Sith Order...

 

Well who would stop them? Since the Jedi Order is wiped out?

 

Do NOT cull the Jedi.

Edited April 30, 2012 by KeaneTaverson

add Satele Shan

The issue here is that the Jedi Order seems to have too much freedom and autonomy. Why? They are mostly responsible (indirectly because of the Sith) for many of the major conflicts throughout the galaxy (notable exceptions being the Yuuzhan Vong War and the Killik Expansion). The point I am making here is that the Jedi have no checks to their own power or authority; they "serve" the Republic (or the GA) as they see fit and at times there is conflict even within the order as to what should be done to serve properly.

 

During the Mandalorian Wars the Jedi Council largely ignored the crisis and wanted to let things play out instead of helping, though Revan, Malak, and Meetra Surik, along with others, were able to stop the invasion and beat the Mandalorians (without approval of the Jedi Council though). So, the Jedi Order is not actually a resource for the Republic or the GA to call upon, they stand apart, even though they are indirectly responsible for the deaths of billions because of so many Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

 

The point of culling force users is meant to remove them as a threat to the galaxy once and for all. Now this might have serious problems. I doubt that the Yuuzhan Vong would have been able to be defeated without the Jedi, so perhaps other methods should be taken to keep the Jedi in check. Thoughts?

The issue here is that the Jedi Order seems to have too much freedom and autonomy. Why? They are mostly responsible (indirectly because of the Sith) for many of the major conflicts throughout the galaxy (notable exceptions being the Yuuzhan Vong War and the Killik Expansion). The point I am making here is that the Jedi have no checks to their own power or authority; they "serve" the Republic (or the GA) as they see fit and at times there is conflict even within the order as to what should be done to serve properly.

 

During the Mandalorian Wars the Jedi Council largely ignored the crisis and wanted to let things play out instead of helping, though Revan, Malak, and Meetra Surik, along with others, were able to stop the invasion and beat the Mandalorians (without approval of the Jedi Council though). So, the Jedi Order is not actually a resource for the Republic or the GA to call upon, they stand apart, even though they are indirectly responsible for the deaths of billions because of so many Jedi falling to the Dark Side.

 

The point of culling force users is meant to remove them as a threat to the galaxy once and for all. Now this might have serious problems. I doubt that the Yuuzhan Vong would have been able to be defeated without the Jedi, so perhaps other methods should be taken to keep the Jedi in check. Thoughts?

 

 

 

You can't "kill" the force, you can kill them all once, then the next generation will have several times last in the amount of force users in the galaxy. A jedi led coup was what removed a cruel dictator from power(Dala). The republic and GA are incredibly corrupt, these senators have several times the power of a US senator(Remember,these are bloody PLANETS that they represent and sometimes control too in the case of the Organas), thus they NEED the Jedi to control and regulate them.

The Jedi are not responsible for the atrocities of the Sith and however much authority the Jedi Council does does not have makes no difference. Jedi who fall to the darkside are traitors, so they defy the order anyway. You believe that the actions of a traitor is still the responsible of the people he betrayed? How does that make sense?

 

It's not the fault of the Jedi that evil exists. It'd be like asking if the Republic Military should be allowed to exist if members because sometimes it's members become turncoats.

 

You also seem to blame the Council for not acting and also blame those who did act for falling to the darkside. What exactly do you want from them?

Edited May 5, 2012 by OldVengeance

Who let Karen Traviss onto the forums?

Who let Karen Traviss onto the forums?

 

You beat me to it, brother.

You beat me to it, brother.

 

/brofist

The major issue as I see it

 

Everyone seems to expect the Jedi to always do what each person thinks is right.

 

There is a little problem with that and that is called an opinion. What you may think is right someone else may think is wrong so essentially even in the Jedi Order there are different opinions on what to do and that is what creates the problem.

 

The Jedi Council unlike the Sith are not in the habit of forcing someone to do what they want (I have yet to see a Jedi Master shoot lightning or force choke someone for disagreeing). Though I can see where that might be an idea at times.

 

So in order for the Jedi Order to do things correctly they have to agree on the decision and considering the Jedi are people that is not always going to happen. All they can do is try to do what is best.

 

That can mean at times they mess up or they take too long to make a decision but reaching a decision isn't always easy (unless you want to start force choking everyone that disagrees with you ).

 

As far a Jedi falling to the darkside the responsibility lies with the Jedi that make that decision. I seriously doubt the Jedi Council goes up to someone and says "Hey you, we think you should fall to the darkside." Placing the blame on the Jedi Council or the Jedi Order for an individual jedi choosing the dark side isn't correct. The blame and responsibility belongs solely on the person that choose that path. The Jedi that falls to the darkside knows what they are doing.

Edited May 5, 2012 by ScarletBlaze

Actually if you look at the big picture the Jedi are amazingly efficient at keeping the numbers of Dark Jedi to a minimum, there has been hundred of thousands of Jedis throughout 25000 years of galactic history yet only those few mentioned ever became true threats to the galaxy, that's like a 99% success rate of your training regime, can't really expect the Jedi to do better than this

good thing i dont spend my time reading nonsense. Yet in current sw time line the actual jedi is almost no existant.... Edited May 5, 2012 by HumanSheild

Two points of contention here. It's been quite a while since I read it, but I don't think Kyp was a Master when he fell. I do believe he was still an apprentice or knight.

 

Kyp was merely a padawan who was very early in his training. He was more or less posessed by the spirit of Exar Kun.

Actually if you look at the big picture the Jedi are amazingly efficient at keeping the numbers of Dark Jedi to a minimum, there has been hundred of thousands of Jedis throughout 25000 years of galactic history yet only those few mentioned ever became true threats to the galaxy, that's like a 99% success rate of your training regime, can't really expect the Jedi to do better than this

 

This.

 

The Sith are rooted FAR deeper than just a few force users from Tython back in the day, the Sith have always been around, and they still would have, regardless of the fact they came from the Founders on Tython.

 

You can't defeat the Dark Side, nor the Light.

 

This topic is pointless because it wouldn't matter anyway.

1. Good people turn bad all the time, why pick on just Jedi.

2. Isn't killing someone in case they go bad rather....bad.

3. Who will kill the sith if there are no Jedi?