Hey all, since my last post I have been able to play quite a bit using the Undying/Grit combo and, although it been regs only, I have to admit that I am overall very pleased with the results. I took some practice but I think I have been able to figure out the use of my defensive CD's, the tactical, and stims. The most noticeable change has been just how much more hardy my dps guardian is now. "Little" Pepe....as people often refer to her can take a beating.

As far as DPS output, yes there was a smidge of a drop initially but I changed most of my amplifiers to "force sensitivity" to get more bang out of my force attacks and mixed in some "periodic intensity" to increase my burn output. Those changes seemed to have compensated for the loss.

I wish I could have tested it more in ranked but, unfortunately, my schedule does not jive with the current times that ranked pops on SF. Maybe next season!

Now, with only two weeks left of the double xp event, you will continue to see pepe around but I have been working on other toons to get the classes to renown level 100. I really want that "everybody knows my name" title!!

Hey all, since my last post I have been able to play quite a bit using the Undying/Grit combo and, although it been regs only, I have to admit that I am overall very pleased with the results. I took some practice but I think I have been able to figure out the use of my defensive CD's, the tactical, and stims. The most noticeable change has been just how much more hardy my dps guardian is now. "Little" Pepe....as people often refer to her can take a beating.

 

As far as DPS output, yes there was a smidge of a drop initially but I changed most of my amplifiers to "force sensitivity" to get more bang out of my force attacks and mixed in some "periodic intensity" to increase my burn output. Those changes seemed to have compensated for the loss.

 

I wish I could have tested it more in ranked but, unfortunately, my schedule does not jive with the current times that ranked pops on SF. Maybe next season!

 

Now, with only two weeks left of the double xp event, you will continue to see pepe around but I have been working on other toons to get the classes to renown level 100. I really want that "everybody knows my name" title!!

While I appreciate experiments I don't think regs is a good measure for... anything . You could run hatred sin with 276 gear and still be a great asset.

In ranked I am not having much luck with any combination of dps jugg gear. Only when it randomly pops tank + healer can I make Force Bound + Grit Teeth work well. The damage is mostly fine despite being focused, and Grit Teeth comes back in a timely manner. But without tank and only a healer? Forget it. With only a healer I will have to play the hide-and-seek-leap-mad dash-game to deal with focus, and frankly I don't care for it. I find it a dichotomy to the jugg archetype.

While I appreciate experiments I don't think regs is a good measure for... anything . You could run hatred sin with 276 gear and still be a great asset.

 

In ranked I am not having much luck with any combination of dps jugg gear. Only when it randomly pops tank + healer can I make Force Bound + Grit Teeth work well. The damage is mostly fine despite being focused, and Grit Teeth comes back in a timely manner. But without tank and only a healer? Forget it. With only a healer I will have to play the hide-and-seek-leap-mad dash-game to deal with focus, and frankly I don't care for it. I find it a dichotomy to the jugg archetype.

I don't necessarily agree, but to each their own. There are a lot of very good players, for whatever reason, that play in regs on a regular basis and avoid the ranked venue. Regardless, I think my assessment about the gear and tactical is legit otherwise I would have said it was garbage. The difference for me in solo vs regs, instead of getting tunneled by 3 players, it normally 4-5.

I do agree though that "hide-and-seek-leap-mad dash-game" is not the playstyle we long time dps jugg/guardians have been accustom too but, the game has changed, classes have changed, and the warrior class has changed. To just throw up hands and say the class sucks is not my style. Unfortunately, the "hide-and-seek-leap-mad dash-game" has become our game. So we adapt and think outside the norm to make it work.

It all crap, ignore this entire thread! Went 1-2 this evening and was not even a factor! Dps jugg is dead in ranked. I refuse to even consider queueing again. Just a waste of F...… time! It is an absolute F...… shame the dps class for a warrior/jedi has been brought to this point.

I will never, ever, use the dps tank crutch.....it down right disrespectful to the class! Once I finish pepe up...I will never go back to it again....

Apparently imperial ops had much more significance in star wars lore! What a f...… joke!

It all crap, ignore this entire thread! Went 1-2 this evening and was not even a factor! Dps jugg is dead in ranked. I refuse to even consider queueing again. Just a waste of F...… time! It is an absolute F...… shame the dps class for a warrior/jedi has been brought to this point.

 

I will never, ever, use the dps tank crutch.....it down right disrespectful to the class! Once I finish pepe up...I will never go back to it again....

 

Apparently imperial ops had much more significance in star wars lore! What a f...… joke!

Dude are you mental? 1-2 is a sample size of 3 ranked games. First of all, people that draw conclusions out of such small sample sizes generally have no clue what they‘re talking about. Second, when doing 3 matches within an hour on the same server it’s very likely that all 3 matches were the same game type (I‘m assuming 4 dps here) and the same or atleast similar classes/players.

Yes, sometimes as a Jugg or PT in 4 dps games you are without any discussion the focus target that will get raped by 3 or all 4 enemy dps and you will also die, relying on your team to finish the job. This can feel like you aren‘t a factor, but you absolutely are. There is always something you could’ve done better, especially when it comes to less obvious things like positioning, where you let them open on and when (spawn camping). And well, in all other game types jugg can absolutely carry. Doesn’t make it a top tier class for solo ranked overall, but the class is definitely not dead.

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I mean. I saw 2 of your games. You didn't do great. It's no secret that jugg dps is not strong, but you could have played your games better.

It all crap, ignore this entire thread! Went 1-2 this evening and was not even a factor! Dps jugg is dead in ranked. I refuse to even consider queueing again. Just a waste of F...… time! It is an absolute F...… shame the dps class for a warrior/jedi has been brought to this point.

 

I will never, ever, use the dps tank crutch.....it down right disrespectful to the class! Once I finish pepe up...I will never go back to it again....

 

Apparently imperial ops had much more significance in star wars lore! What a f...… joke!

Yes I completely get this frustration. Jugg is the only class I am somewhat proficient with, and to be

constantly considered a liability is getting old.

That being said you should not give up just yet. On my pure damage rage jugg I am 11/10 and on my more defensive vengeance jugg I am 27/22. These are also queued in the blind, so things could be even better with higher regards for tanks/healers in queue.

But with the season about to end I am not really playing ranked anymore. I will be back again for season 13, and hopefully with more matches.

I mean. I saw 2 of your games. You didn't do great. It's no secret that jugg dps is not strong, but you could have played your games better.

Yup, why the tirade! I was super pissed at myself for those two losses. I made several mistakes that I don't normally make.

Overall, the undying is a good pvp set. I just could not stay up long enough to use grit for a second time. I messed up my defensive cd's. I need to practice more.

I would consider myself a good player but there are two that are head and shoulders above me. They have whipped my @&& in 8vs8 and arenas for eternity. One was playing in arenas that night, I lost my cool and was pushing way to hard.....hence the mistakes.

Dude are you mental? 1-2 is a sample size of 3 ranked games. First of all, people that draw conclusions out of such small sample sizes generally have no clue what they‘re talking about.

Notice how when winning, everything was just peachy. It was just a matter of adapting, and being strong enough to evolve with the game! Suddenly when guy began losing, the class is total garbage and impossible to succeed on.

Like Elon Musk says, just shows how we as people only can discuss topics from our own personal perception. You can't convince others of anything in most cases because people lack objectivity and only want to hear or read what supports their personal narratives and agendas.

At least he explains himself later on. I can see that, too. I still stand by my words though. People lose all objectivity as soon as the hard times hit them. At least he admitted he reacted poorly.

Notice how when winning, everything was just peachy. It was just a matter of adapting, and being strong enough to evolve with the game! Suddenly when guy began losing, the class is total garbage and impossible to succeed on.

 

Like Elon Musk says, just shows how we as people only can discuss topics from our own personal perception. You can't convince others of anything in most cases because people lack objectivity and only want to hear or read what supports their personal narratives and agendas.

 

At least he explains himself later on. I can see that, too. I still stand by my words though. People lose all objectivity as soon as the hard times hit them. At least he admitted he reacted poorly.

No doubt I did and I apologize. Was not mad at anyone or anything other than myself. I agree with your assessment though and don't need to throw in the towel after a bad night. I will keep trying to perfect it!

Dude are you mental? 1-2 is a sample size of 3 ranked games. First of all, people that draw conclusions out of such small sample sizes generally have no clue what they‘re talking about. Second, when doing 3 matches within an hour on the same server it’s very likely that all 3 matches were the same game type (I‘m assuming 4 dps here) and the same or atleast similar classes/players.

 

Yes, sometimes as a Jugg or PT in 4 dps games you are without any discussion the focus target that will get raped by 3 or all 4 enemy dps and you will also die, relying on your team to finish the job. This can feel like you aren‘t a factor, but you absolutely are. There is always something you could’ve done better, especially when it comes to less obvious things like positioning, where you let them open on and when (spawn camping). And well, in all other game types jugg can absolutely carry. Doesn’t make it a top tier class for solo ranked overall, but the class is definitely not dead.

I agree!

I should add that I was able to go 8-3 with this set and tactical. So there was improvement. I just need more work with it and need to play more often to get true results.

Just play it like a tank. You're there to soak damage for your team and if you can dish out any in the main time that's great. If not, that's also ok. You'll be first target 90% of the time (basically always unless there is an AP PT on your team)

You just have to stay alive until after the first person on the enemy team dies.

After that your team should help you stabilize if possible, and then you can take the win.

I think Juggs honestly are pretty good it's just that so many other classes are really ****** first targets either due to the amount of escapes they have or how tanky they really are. (look at marauders and mercs for example) which naturally makes Juggs a preferable target to attempt to kill first.

Just play it like a tank. You're there to soak damage for your team and if you can dish out any in the main time that's great. If not, that's also ok. You'll be first target 90% of the time (basically always unless there is an AP PT on your team)

 

You just have to stay alive until after the first person on the enemy team dies.

After that your team should help you stabilize if possible, and then you can take the win.

 

 

I think Juggs honestly are pretty good it's just that so many other classes are really ****** first targets either due to the amount of escapes they have or how tanky they really are. (look at marauders and mercs for example) which naturally makes Juggs a preferable target to attempt to kill first.

Ironically, the undying set literally makes a dps jugg/guardian very tanky. In combination with Grit, it performs exceptionally well. Right now, I am trying to figure out the best way to handle the chain stun locks. That was the issue the other night.

Thanks for the input Evol, instead of trying to push dps initially I will play more defensive in the beginning. Use my taunts and leap to protect teammates rather than charging in head first.

I should add that I was able to go 8-3 with this set and tactical.

8-3 is really good. LMFAO. Most players, even the best ones don't come out of placements with 8-3.

8-3 is really good. LMFAO. Most players, even the best ones don't come out of placements with 8-3.

I should clarify, I went 8-3 after going with the undying and Grit. I started the season 10-19. LOL. Finished 18-22. The descent set, although great for regs, is worthless for a dps jugg/guardian in ranked, imo. I actually have gotten so used to the undying set, that I use it all the time now on Pepe and have started swapping the descent pieces on Ty'zor, Maullin, and Clandestu with the undying.

This may sound stupid but, when I play now, I actually feel like I am playing a jugg again. I can take a freaking beating in regs. I just need to be able to transition it to ranked.

The set with 20% DR on Mad Dash? I don't really see that doing much

Forcebound 1 person and you'll prevent more damage than that setbonus will in 3 uses

The set with 20% DR on Mad Dash? I don't really see that doing much

 

Forcebound 1 person and you'll prevent more damage than that setbonus will in 3 uses

I agree, but I am not going to pay that kind of creds for the set. I am working on making it. The 20% DR works though. The set actually fits my play style well since I always use Mad Dash quite often. The 20% DR is significant enough to allow Grit to proc several times. The exception is chain stun locks. For instance, the night I got on the pity pot, an op and sin absolutely tore me down by taking turns locking me up. I have to admit, they were damn good at timing right.

I agree, but I am not going to pay that kind of creds for the set.

You also have to factor in the utility it brings to your team. Forcebound is a 80% accuracy reduction to every player that it gets applied to. That means even if your enemies are not attacking you, you can still use forcebound to peel for your allies. For example, as a healer when I see the enemy forcebounded, I cast every single castable ability on my bar because the enemy will miss their interrupts since Forcebound applies to yellow damage as well. The undying set, however, only applies 20% damage reduction to yourself.

If you don't have the credits that is one thing, but Forcebound is pretty obviously the best and most OP set bonus in the game.

You also have to factor in the utility it brings to your team. Forcebound is a 80% accuracy reduction to every player that it gets applied to. That means even if your enemies are not attacking you, you can still use forcebound to peel for your allies. For example, as a healer when I see the enemy forcebounded, I cast every single castable ability on my bar because the enemy will miss their interrupts since Forcebound applies to yellow damage as well. The undying set, however, only applies 20% damage reduction to yourself.

 

If you don't have the credits that is one thing, but Forcebound is pretty obviously the best and most OP set bonus in the game.

Creds are not the issue, it parting with them. I see your point, I will look into purchasing it.

I have been playing with Force Bound + Grit Teeth on both Focus and Defense Guardians. In reg WZs it is very useful on both specs. In Arenas, Focus goes down pretty fast and I don't get a 2nd FD in 4dps games. I really shouldn't even queue as that spec anyway but hey. On Defense I find Grit Teeth very useful in arenas. I actually don't find Force Bound so useful in solos because it only affects non whitebarred enemies, so after the initial jump in and Awe, there's really no time in the match where you will get more than 2 people affected by it. I still use it though because it's better than the other options, and a long hardstun even on 1 foe is quite good.

I appreciate your input. Ironically, I am about to have 4 pieces of the force bound set so I will be able to see what all the hub bub is about. I am really interested in working with the set after all I have read.

Making it was most definitely less expensive. I am out only 50 mil creds vs the 120-130 mil I would have been out if I had just purchased all 4. I only had to purchase one piece and 20 embers.

Also, I am seriously considering going shank on one of my guardians/juggs. I will be brutally honest though, I don't even know where to begin to even build one. I also need to make another set if I decide to do it.

I will give everyone some feedback on a vig, grit, force bound guardian after I get to play with it some.

In Arenas, Focus goes down pretty fast and I don't get a 2nd FD in 4dps games. I really shouldn't even queue as that spec anyway but hey. On Defense I find Grit Teeth very useful in arenas. I actually don't find Force Bound so useful in solos because it only affects non whitebarred enemies, so after the initial jump in and Awe, there's really no time in the match where you will get more than 2 people affected by it. I still use it though because it's better than the other options, and a long hardstun even on 1 foe is quite good.

No one is doubting that jugg dps is in a really weak place in solo ranked right now. But by what you are describing, there could be a few things you change up.

1) I actually don't always jump in and awe. If you can get 3-4 in an initial awe, then that is great. But most times in the opener, people are spread out which is why I sit on my awe anyways. Also with grit teeth tactical you really want to use EDas the very first CD. Even before forcebound.

2) One of the nice things about being the first target is that you get to decide where to fight. Even if there are a lot of ranged on the other team, if you LOS behind a wall or pillar you can pull the ranged into cleave and make them clump. This makes it really easy to awe 3-4 people. In fact 4 man awes are almost always frequent if you look for them.

Also, I am seriously considering going shank on one of my guardians/juggs. I will be brutally honest though, I don't even know where to begin to even build one. I also need to make another set if I decide to do it.

It's actually the same set. Skank tanks are tanks in dps gear. So literally the set bonus, tactical, mods, enhancements, and the whole left side are the same. The only difference is that you may want to take a generator in your offhand (some tanks do not) and the preferred amps are weapon expertise and armor pen (which means of course, new armorings).

It's actually the same set. Skank tanks are tanks in dps gear. So literally the set bonus, tactical, mods, enhancements, and the whole left side are the same. The only difference is that you may want to take a generator in your offhand (some tanks do not) and the preferred amps are weapon expertise and armor pen (which means of course, new armorings).

I have a full on tank, I would need to swap out a few pieces for pvp though. Is there a benefit running an actual tank in solos vs a shank or is the dps that important?

I have a full on tank, I would need to swap out a few pieces for pvp though. Is there a benefit running an actual tank in solos vs a shank or is the dps that important?

not rlly. the dps is important.