So looks like devs kind of listened and buffed pyro survivability (a fair bit to be honest).

1) 25% defense chance with degauss for 6 seconds

2) activate and heal to 35% on kolto overload (moving out of execute range)

3) 30% damage reduction while kolto is active (making you immune to death for 8 seconds in a 1 v 1 if you activate it properly - and potentially 2 v 1 too).

4) CGC slow is also activated by flame sweep

Not the greatest for PvE players but pretty decent for PvP. I remember reading some guys post saying you can be either a) glass cannon b) medium output with medium survivability, c)high survive with average damage

I think this puts pyro in column B now....I don't see the burst or range ever returning because of this. Pyro still hurts, just not as much as it used to....Thoughts?

This in addition to the extra little bit of TD burst is appreciated.

I'll still probably run AP for PVE, but for PVP at least we have a choice now between higher sustained damage with PFT, or higher burst and DOTS.

I think the choice may come down to - I'm personally not that great at landing PFT every time, but I know guys that almost never fail to pull it off on someone or a big group of someone's every 8-10 seconds.

I'll point out the obvious too, tanks are going to do slightly better with the KO change.

hahaha xp in arena if the other team have only 2 dps, adrenaline rush + 30% damage reduce is like 8 sec of guarded by the force+ extra heal tofull(35%) with a cd of something between 60 and 80 seconds thanks to the automated defense talent and it activates if i am stunned below 35% because of the health monitor mechanic

thx bioware that is exactly what i need

So looks like devs kind of listened and buffed pyro survivability (a fair bit to be honest).

 

1) 25% defense chance with degauss for 6 seconds

2) activate and heal to 35% on kolto overload (moving out of execute range)

3) 30% damage reduction while kolto is active (making you immune to death for 8 seconds in a 1 v 1 if you activate it properly - and potentially 2 v 1 too).

4) CGC slow is also activated by flame sweep

 

Not the greatest for PvE players but pretty decent for PvP. I remember reading some guys post saying you can be either a) glass cannon b) medium output with medium survivability, c)high survive with average damage

 

I think this puts pyro in column B now....I don't see the burst or range ever returning because of this. Pyro still hurts, just not as much as it used to....Thoughts?

In arenas, kolto overload is now the equivalent of undying rage -- or better. Except that the cooldown is longer, and it lasts 8 seconds instead of what, 4? Pyros also stick to targets better than maras with these changes.

I would guess that it gets a nerf before it hits live.

Where is this buff detailed.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6701703#edit6701703

this is just a slap in the face for PvE Pyrotechs. jesus christ

Not sure how... With 2.4 you can front load more damage compared to in 2.3 You have more upfront burst and less DoT Which (supposedly) is how this class is supposed to work (I still contend to think that Pyro is a DoT class at heart and should have a DoT heat degaussing talent).

Not sure how... With 2.4 you can front load more damage compared to in 2.3 You have more upfront burst and less DoT Which (supposedly) is how this class is supposed to work (I still contend to think that Pyro is a DoT class at heart and should have a DoT heat degaussing talent).

For the vast majority of fights, burst doesn't mean **** for PvE. These buffs have done nothing to increase pyro's sustained damage by a noticeable amount. It's still down near assassin-level in PvE.

I've posted it before, however, there are a few things to make these buffs (which are a step in the right direction) something to put PT back in at least equal footing.

A) Take Flame Engine (I think that's it) from tier 6 of ST, and put it in AP. Take Energy Rebounder out of Tier 6 AP and put it into ST tier 6 to replace Flame Engine (again, whichever one procs a free 50% channel time flame thrower). With the nerf to speed debuff on Flamethrower, that gives us full damage in half the time, since we're going to be wasting flamethrower a lot now without that extra slow % applied. I like the increase in overall damage, but I don't like how I need to stack some crit now too, to make sure I do (or use explosive fuel more often, oh wait it's a 2m timer...)

B) Do something useful with HE Cell. Maybe even reduce the timer on explosive fuel?

C) Do something useful with the skill that replaced Hydraulic Override (increases duration by 4s). Somewhat related to HE Cell being useful, as it gives a 15% increase on speed if you do use it (I don't know why you would?), that makes getting the 4s increase in duration of HO fairly useless (30% increase in speed, and immunity to movement impairment) as you get 15% free across the board. Even a slow is less effective. overall. Why not just add that to HE cell's useful traits under the cell buff skill in tier 2 AP and kill 2 birds with one stone? either +15% or +4s, but not both, in addition to damage bonus, and in addition to a new skill slot being free for a useful ability NOT DEPENDENT on HE cell.

While I would like HE cell to be useful, I don't want to be forced to use it as I like my AP in Ion Cell for survivability when running a ball, and cgc for a 50/50 hybrid.

d) this brings up hybrids. Why discourage hybriding? Does bioware want us to all run cookiecutter specs? Do they not want us to have variety and personality in our play styles? I suppose they should just balance it for a full tree first, but it is really irritating to be limited unecessarily. there's no good answer for limiting hybrids that I have heard. It's always just "they shouldn't be as good".

c) the DoT for thermal is nice, for keeping a target burning through a rotation or adding it so you can RS. but this brings up a problem. Rail Shot needs to proc more again. Not as much as in 1.2, but more than it is now. These most recent changes may very well help fix that problem, though, at least band-aid it. The problem with RS is that it is weapon damage. This means that it is dodged quite often. I wish it was yellow, because you are locked out of using it on a sin TWICE. Once when they deflect, and again when they put up force cloak and cleanse all my DoTs. I play AP mostly, and it's the same problem for that tree. Not as big an issue against Ops, but its horribad vs snipers too, and i can hardly get a white hit on them at all. I don't want to be forced to get accuracy and reduce my damage when my class does so little damage already.

d) on the subject of DoTs, Retractable blade doesn't have to do LESS damage for the SAME heat, it needs to do MORE damage (or the same damage it did until 2.4 rolls out) for LESS heat. It's too expensive to use often, and with all the Op healers rolling around (or Ops in general) with a cleanse, it's really really pointless to be pyro against them, or try to waste heat on a railshot, which requires bleed, which requires RB/Gut. I just use FT, immolate, nade, RP, fb, fb, ft, and use my rockets in between cds to keep the damage rolling. I hate how they exfiltrate away and live. I may change it up and throw in RB after RP to keep them in combat when they stealth out, or to slow (plus 3% damage increase bonus).

e) Immolate - why make it more expensive? It's like. the one skill that is cheap for AP. Although with FT being reduced in heat, i suppose I can accept 3 extra heat for a free RP, but that RP now costs me 3 heat, it's just been added to the immolate instead of on the RP.

f) give me another damage dealing ability. There is RB, RS, FB, RP, FT for AP tree. For Pyro: RP, FB, RS, TD. The rest are heat heavy. RP even is only used to proc an RS, if its up and target is in 4m, and you can proc RS, and have the heat. Incendiary also needs to do same damage, and just cost 30% less. It's just not used because of the heat cost, not damage. It already does only like... twice as much as Ion Cell bleed. I can put all useful Pyro/AP abilities in a single quickbar, including interrupt and defensives, minus grapple. Shoulder Rocket is good, and it IS the burst we need, but it takes AP 7 seconds to unload them all minimum, and it takes like 45 seconds to get the rockets all loaded, and it takes something like 2 minutes for them to CD, AND they are only available for something like 4 minutes when loaded in... Too many drawbacks. I like that there are 7 in AP, and they do extra damage. So just the CD I could handle being less to increase my overall DPS and burst, and help me to be a useful member of a team.

Basically:

I just shouldn't be twice as good as a smash player to put up 200k less damage than him in a SHORT match in either AP or Pyro, and someone of equal skill is going to easily double my AP damage, and do about 25% more than Pyro of equal skill.

Equal skill players should do equal damage on a similar-type class, such as Sin and Mara/Jugg (even Sins out DPS me, and Ops in Leth (WAAAY better damage, on par with sniper/mara) or concealment (they burst me down quick, but are stuck if they don't kill me. I might be able to win out in a battle of attrition if i can get them before their CDs finish; overall, DPS is similar to theirs in AP.).

For the vast majority of fights, burst doesn't mean **** for PvE. These buffs have done nothing to increase pyro's sustained damage by a noticeable amount. It's still down near assassin-level in PvE.

sustained damage is comparable for AP, as well. Decreasing shoulder cannon CD to something like 45 seconds, and reducing the cannon to 2 missiles at a time, with a 15 second load time might be a fair compromise, while AP gets 4 with the same CD and increased Damage.

also, just keeping it the way it is, but with less CD.

Decreasing the lockout timer on Railshot proccing.

decreasing cost of incendiary but not the damage, if anything making it comparable to current Retractable Blade damage over time.

RB not being reduced in damage, just in heat.

Giving us an ability like assassinate. We have no execute. We really need one. I can get a target down to 30%, but then an OP heals them. If I can get a guy down to 30% and use an execute, bring him down to like 10%, the Op has to use two GCD on insta-heal instead of 1. I like that. By that time, I might have enough sustained damage or ticks to pop him close to 30% then finish with RS and another execute. It would be a challenge, but not one that is impossible to get over now. For the moment, I'm forced to burst down one guy, then move to another, and cause the healers to keep switching targets and hopefully the flip-flopping wears them out, not knowing who to target next, and causing them to, hopefully, get lax in dropping probes out. You have to play so much smarter as a PT to get ANYWHERE. I have a Jugg, and an Op, and a Merc, and an Assassin, and a Sorc. They are all easier to play than PT. They all take less skill to play and still be useful.

USEFUL, not less skill to be amazing at them. An AMAZING PT is still mediocre on a scoreboard, and in DPS.

We're so fun to play because of the challenge, and because of the utility. There is a LOT you can do with a PT if you are an aware player, and know who has used what defensive and offensive CDs.

Hi,

I was wondering.. could some of you knowledgeable people post a link to a good Pyro build I could use? Perhaps a hybrid that works very well for PvP and isn't bad for PvE as well?

(Mainly levelling friendly as I can just respec in end-level - I'm a subscriber)

PvE perspective:

The changes overall are negative. The loss of 100% application of CGC with FB and the weakness in IR defiantly does not help a tree parsing about 15-20% from top parser. The IR change might not be a net loss considering the heat reduction, but its still not a damage increase by any means.

PvP perspective:

Again, same as above. Not enough overall damage. Burst is highly RNG based and not consistent, with only RS hitting above 6K mark. TD change is welcome, but aint much improvement. Now it hits 5-5.5K if it critics..

The damage reduction from kolto overload is nice, especially that CDs will reset every round during arenas. Degsus defense? Semi useless. Half the damage in PvP is yellow damage, that can't be dodged. This will only come in handy against sins, carnage marauders and MM snipers.

The only redeeming quality of pyro in 2.4 is the buff in application of snare. 40% for 6 secs is defiantly strong.

Considering AP recent buffs, AP has better sustained damage, better burst (while less reliable), much better survivability and better mobility. I don't see any reason to run pyro compared to AP and most specs of other dps classes. It has nothing of value aside from the snare.

For the vast majority of fights, burst doesn't mean **** for PvE. These buffs have done nothing to increase pyro's sustained damage by a noticeable amount. It's still down near assassin-level in PvE.

Let's be honest. These buffs were not planned in advance by BW. They were an emergency reaction to the sh*tstorm unleashed by the Vanguard/PT player rep questions. Thus, the complete imbalance between pve and pvp considerations. I don't think you will see very much in the way of class changes from here on out. The devs are going to be super gun shy about doing anything from here on out.

Let's be honest. These buffs were not planned in advance by BW. They were an emergency reaction to the sh*tstorm unleashed by the Vanguard/PT player rep questions. Thus, the complete imbalance between pve and pvp considerations. I don't think you will see very much in the way of class changes from here on out. The devs are going to be super gun shy about doing anything from here on out.

Sadly, you're probably correct.

But, I just don't understand, how I can log into PTS for 2 days and run over a 100 parses (in both DPS specs, plus some hybrid) and PROVE these changes (DPS) are minimal, at best.

IM/IR nerf negates TD/AP buff.

the only improvement is in the defense department. clearly, a change intended for PvP. (or soloing 50 HM's...LOL/COL, both laughing and crying )

I have no baseline for AP/Tactics DPS, so I cannot speak, with knowledge, on the spec.

As far as Pyro/Assault, it's still WELL below top performing AC's...WELL BELOW ~5%, on dummies, and actual encounters (FP/OPs).

So, where are all these "metrics" they speak of? How is it possible to not have the knowledge or math showing this? I can do it in a matter of hours.

PvE class balance should be a matter of math. you can reduce the amount of variables. it cannot be that difficult.

unless of course, they are balancing classes based on PvP.

As far as Pyro/Assault, it's still WELL below top performing AC's...WELL BELOW ~5%, on dummies, and actual encounters (FP/OPs).

 

So, where are all these "metrics" they speak of? How is it possible to not have the knowledge or math showing this? I can do it in a matter of hours.

 

PvE class balance should be a matter of math. you can reduce the amount of variables. it cannot be that difficult.

AP or Hybrid has been the PvE spec since 2.0 dropped. If you don't have a reference for that, you're going to have issues, yeah. AP's damage was buffed by and it outparses the hybrid now. If PTs have 2 viable trees for PvE (Shieldtech and AP) and 3 viable trees for PvP, that's pretty good balance from the dev team.

AP or Hybrid has been the PvE spec since 2.0 dropped. If you don't have a reference for that, you're going to have issues, yeah. AP's damage was buffed by and it outparses the hybrid now. If PTs have 2 viable trees for PvE (Shieldtech and AP) and 3 viable trees for PvP, that's pretty good balance from the dev team.

I am well aware of how each tree, even hybrid, parses since 2.0. I've done extensive testing.

Issues, well I don't have issues. I don't want to shoot myself in the foot here with my following comments, but I'm sure this isn't very difficult to understand.

I over perform as a VG/Assault. I consider myself an serious, exceptional "casual" player. For example, in 69/69/66 gear, I'm <100 DPS off of being in top 50 in almost all FP encounters on Torparse. (strangely enough several top 10's at the moment in MR...must be a major bug )

In my last 10 WZ's (9 wins all Pug'd), I finished top in damage 9 times, including 689k in the first round of a VS. Still lacking the burst and DCD's to be seriously competitive, though.

Anyway, my point is this:

Having 2/3 viable trees is NOT acceptable. Especially, when the tree in question, Assault/Pyro, was TOTALLY viable pre 2.0.

I could play a sniper, 'slinger, or marauder. I do not enjoy those AC's more than my VG. Therefore, I would like to see some reasonable changes that put the AC in a place where they can be competitive (~5% SWTOR standard) in DPS.

With the healing increase and the sheer amount of DPS sniper/slinger and marauder/sents put out, as well as their excellent DCD's in 2.4, there is no reason Assault/Pyro cannot get back some, if not most to all, of it's burst pre 2.0.

To ignore the struggling AC's (I know Assault/pyro is not alone) for a year, is abysmal and irresponsible.

DPS leaderboards show a clear disparity, and nothing is being done to correct this. 2.4 is a MINOR increase, if any.

I know I'm just wasting my breath. I've been MMO'ing for quite some time ('03), and I know the free passes, excuses, and "metrics" the Dev teams get away with that allow FotM to run rampant.

I, however, believe in accountability. And 2/3 is not acceptable.

Even with the buffs, Pyro is still just a regstar spec in PvP. The spec needs an execute.

Burnout is the execute for Pyro.

Increases elemental damage(fire, dots) on targets below 30% health.

Burnout is the execute for Pyro.

 

Increases elemental damage(fire, dots) on targets below 30% health.

Can you cleanse a marauder, sniper, assassin execute?

Burnout is the execute for Pyro.

lawl@Burnout