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Some Thoughts on Improving the Sorcerer's (& Sage) Abilities

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sage / Sorcerer
Some Thoughts on Improving the Sorcerer's (& Sage) Abilities

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.06.2013 , 03:12 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghost_Spectre View Post
Really? How does 1150 to 1250 DPS per tick channeled in 2.8(1.4) seconds, totaling 3200+ to 3600+, increase by 1000 DPS?
This shouldn't need to be spelled out, but if you do the same amount of damage in half the time, you are doing twice as much DAMAGE PER SECOND. Thus why I said it will double DPS for these abilities. Force Lightning with Lightning Barrage is already the highest DPS ability in a Lightning Sorc's arsenal. If you reduce the cast time of 4 abilities in half, you obviously won't completely double overall DPS, but you will significantly boost the number above acceptable levels comparatively to other classes in PVE. Thus why I said it would increase overall DPS by 1000 or so. You are also going to allow for more lightning strikes by reducing the cast time and increase the chance to proc insta-CL indirectly since you can fire off more LS's.

These changes may help for PVP to increase burst and avoid being interrupted as much, but as I said in a few posts, will totally break the class for PVE.

As a side note, I main a Sorc, so don't try and play the "you just wanna keep Sorcs down in PVP" card please.
I have opinions and stuff

Sosajoshua's Avatar


Sosajoshua
02.06.2013 , 03:48 PM | #22
Lmfao ghost you might as well just calle me out by myself. I never said i was an elite pvper so ummmm okay. My point about using PvE gear is because yes in PvP when will a Lightning ever be able to cast. My "gear" comment is similar to when i tell PTs who complain about the loss of range to just roll PyroMercs if they want it that much. What i have tried to say this whole time, and never articulated it for instantly wanting to counter other peoples arguments, is that a massive damage boost isnt needed. A general change of trees to increase damage percentages would do just as fine. Would i say my examples were perfect!? 6%-10(15%) in no way would this make a whole difference. But a boost from 6%-45% like it seems some people want is a bit much.

Id be the first to agree Sorcerers need more damamge but in ways that benefit their specs not just "lets dump a crap load of damage onto these time and watch then fly in all aspects of the game!" Lower cast times to a reasonable rate or change skill tree abilities that pertain to that problem. Increase duration of dots or change abilities in tree that work on that. You can call me out all i want for having used other classes and not being all gungho onmy Sorc from launch to now, im sorry you have no expanded your horizons. Im not saying "leave my sorc i like my Sniper/PT better" but make reasonable changes to things.

And again...im not saying im the top dpsing Sorc on my server, far from im positive. Whoever to say that at least a few times a Sorc cant outdps a PT is wrong. Is it difficult? Yes. Can it be done though? Yes just dont expect in every pull pr every pvp match to destroy a PTs dps. If it happens, fantastic. If not, this is expected. And yes I do have to agree that one change leads to another cause you cant have an increase without a decrease somewhere, somehow. Whose to say BW may increase the damage of Death Field but then give it a 1.8sec cast (just example)?

The only one sounding like or even trying to sound like an "elite pvper" is you. But im glad to see ive push your buttons that you attempt to tell me what to do. Ha and you shelved your Mara...i may applaud you for that. I have neither Mara nor Sent @50 but you actually shelved yours. That i actually cant believe only because its a mara not cause anything against you.
<A Wretched Hive> Jedi Covenant Rhaegis, Madness Sorcerer / Youngdragon, Advanced Proto-tech / Kha'leesi, Engineering Sniper / Dragonbane, Vengence Juggernaut

Ghost_Spectre's Avatar


Ghost_Spectre
02.06.2013 , 05:56 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Jadescythe View Post
This shouldn't need to be spelled out, but if you do the same amount of damage in half the time, you are doing twice as much DAMAGE PER SECOND. Thus why I said it will double DPS for these abilities. Force Lightning with Lightning Barrage is already the highest DPS ability in a Lightning Sorc's arsenal. If you reduce the cast time of 4 abilities in half, you obviously won't completely double overall DPS, but you will significantly boost the number above acceptable levels comparatively to other classes in PVE. Thus why I said it would increase overall DPS by 1000 or so. You are also going to allow for more lightning strikes by reducing the cast time and increase the chance to proc insta-CL indirectly since you can fire off more LS's.
You only increase the amount of damage when the time is reduced in half, but NOT the total amount. This imaginary 1000 points you say will come from nowhere has nothing to do with the total amount delivered. If that were the case, Lightning Barrage would increase the total amount of damage. It does not, it reduces the time to channel Force Lightning, NOT the overall damage. If you do an average of 3200 DPS in a 2.8 sec cast with Force Lightning, you will do the same amount in 1.4 secs. I do not do more damage with Lightning Strike when it procs up for instant cast with Wrath proc nor do I increase my total damage with Chain Lightning when it procs up for an instant strike. I still do the total amount of damage allowed. So your theory is dead wrong. Decreasing the time to cast only increases the amount of damage but not the total amount, period. What decreasing the cast time ultimately does is increase the Sorcerer/Sage's survival. This is the underlying goal of my original post.

This will not have any adverse effect in PvE since the same rules that apply in PvE apply in PvP concerning damage. In PvE I do more damage because the mobs do not have the damage mitigation we have in PvP, only Elites, Bosses, Champions, and World Bosses have it.

As for the card you said I played, your posts on this subject speak for themselves. If that is not the case, then you really need to be abundantly clear in what you say and how you say it.
Caedus Rage Juggernaut Aloysius Madness Sorcerer Demonicus Healing Sorceress
Vestara Balance Shadow Fat Albert Focus Guardian Baytor Balance Sage
Kallig Legacy Jedi Convenant Level 55 Toons 11

warstory's Avatar


warstory
02.06.2013 , 05:57 PM | #24
i just want to point something out if a sorc applies dots to every single player in the wz at the end of the match it will appear as tho they did x, but all that is meaningless dmg, worthless, useless dmg other than the score board at the end of the game. you cant kill anyone that way other ppl kill that person and cause of the way the system works you get credit as well. me vs you or whoever dps race, lightning sorc especially cant not out dps anyone.

we do not have the pleasure of our stun doing dmg (force choke), our root cuting through you (ravage), or our knock back ripping a hole through you (ambush) we do not have the pleasure of control and dmg built in to a skill. understand that the avg cast time is 1.5 secs and the globe cool down is 1.5 secs so thats 3 secs each ability. while it make other classes 9 secs to setup there best rotation it takes us 20 secs. and are dmg per ability is less than other classes and btw we cant move. math dont add up

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
02.07.2013 , 11:32 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Ghost_Spectre View Post
You only increase the amount of damage when the time is reduced in half, but NOT the total amount. This imaginary 1000 points you say will come from nowhere has nothing to do with the total amount delivered. If that were the case, Lightning Barrage would increase the total amount of damage. It does not, it reduces the time to channel Force Lightning, NOT the overall damage. If you do an average of 3200 DPS in a 2.8 sec cast with Force Lightning, you will do the same amount in 1.4 secs. I do not do more damage with Lightning Strike when it procs up for instant cast with Wrath proc nor do I increase my total damage with Chain Lightning when it procs up for an instant strike. I still do the total amount of damage allowed. So your theory is dead wrong. Decreasing the time to cast only increases the amount of damage but not the total amount, period. What decreasing the cast time ultimately does is increase the Sorcerer/Sage's survival. This is the underlying goal of my original post.

This will not have any adverse effect in PvE since the same rules that apply in PvE apply in PvP concerning damage. In PvE I do more damage because the mobs do not have the damage mitigation we have in PvP, only Elites, Bosses, Champions, and World Bosses have it.

As for the card you said I played, your posts on this subject speak for themselves. If that is not the case, then you really need to be abundantly clear in what you say and how you say it.
Are you for seriousing me? Lightning Barrage is amazing BECAUSE it doubles your DPS. If I do 5k damage over 2 seconds normally and Lightning Barrage lowers that to 1 second, my DPS just went from 2.5k to 5k with Lightning Barrage or DOUBLE the damage the ability would normal do per second (DPS). (numbers used are made up to have round numbers)

Lightning Strike will be the same, but you get the added benefit of getting more CL procs. The percentage is still 30% to proc per LS, but now you can cast twice as many LS's in the same timeframe. Which, of course, will be a DPS increase overall on both LS (doing the same damage in half the time) and CL (casting more LS's means more insta procs). Not to mention, you can cast LS more often because you saved half the cast time on Crushing Darkness as well.

It WILL have an adverse effect on PVE because your reasoning makes no sense. Boss defenses are not going to change, but damage dealt by players will increase significantly. Without the necessity to constantly be moving and the likely possibility of being focused and interrupted, Sorcs are always freecasting. That is why they are far more effective in PVE than they are in PVP. If you don't know that, then I honestly shouldn't even be having this conversation with you. So if you straight decrease cast time, Sorcs will be using more abilities at the same strength in the same time frame and therefore do more damage. I'm not really sure why you aren't understanding this.

Ex. Opening PVE Rotation:
Affliction>Thundering Blast>Crushing Darkness>FL (with LB proc)>LS>LS>CL(Proc)
According to the first paragraph of your post, 4 of those abilities would be affected (CD, FL, LS twice) which reduces that rotation by roughly 3 and a half seconds. Only the GCD on affliction and CL and then the cast time on TB would stay the same (which is why I said DPS wouldn't double overall, but significantly increase). My point being that I did the same rotation, with the same damage, in 3 and a half less seconds.

The only way what you are saying makes sense is if you cut down the damage of each ability by half since you can cast it in half the time, which is obviously counterproductive to the overall point of the thread.
I have opinions and stuff

DeepFreese's Avatar


DeepFreese
02.07.2013 , 03:41 PM | #26
I just want to facepalm at how its not understood by the OP that half the cast time means twice the damage... This may be the easiest thing to understand ever too.
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